#deadcity #thewalkingdead #TWD After their defeat on the water, Maggie, Pearlie, and Navaez clash on how to move forward. The group finds unexpected shelter when they are split up in a walker-infested Central Park. Hershel thinks back to his time with the Dama. Negan tries a different approach to dealing with The Croat. An unexpected encounter leaves Negan shaken. Hershel opens up to Maggie.
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What's up hybrids? Welcome back to another episode
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of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Haniko and I'm here with
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Casey and we are discussing episode 3 of Season 2, Walking
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Dead Dead City. Michelle is not joining us
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tonight, so we're going to try to hold it down without her.
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Well, where do I want to start? OK, let's let's let's start with
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the flashbacks because we're starting to get a little bit of
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the back story between the Dhamma and Herschel.
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Yeah. I don't know what the Dhamma did
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in her past life, but she's very convincing.
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And to a kid like Herschel, I'm sitting here looking and it's
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it's like you can see him in, in the flashbacks with the Dhamma.
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And then even in present day when he's talking to Maggie,
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whatever Logan Kim is doing with his face, he needs to keep doing
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it. Because when he is in the
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presence of the Dhamma in the flashbacks and when he's talking
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to Maggie, his face kind of takes on a, like, a faraway
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look, like he's getting fuzzy. And I was like, this
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motherfucker. Brainwash as fuck.
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Yeah. Like, you took my name.
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You took my screen name. I was going to put brainwash and
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you took it. But I was watching this, like,
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this is really interesting. Yeah.
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Because you know for. Me.
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It was after you were slang last week or last episode.
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I'm sorry, I'm just playing last episode that it was her show
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that started the fire. Once I finished this, you know,
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once I got into this episode how it showed how the demo basically
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groomed him, and once I recalled back to that like little mole.
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Oh, OK. Yeah.
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It it it find the click for me and I'm like, but we you.
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But in my mind, we should have known that like I think we did.
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But it's, it's one thing thinking it and then to to
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actually see it happening in quote UN quote real time.
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And, and it's like she didn't even, it's almost like she
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didn't even have to lead up to it.
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Like she saw Herschel and I don't know, maybe she knew a
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little bit about the background because the Croat said
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something. She was just like, Oh, I can
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exploit this because she came in all nice.
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Oh, I'm so sorry. You were, you know, you were
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tied up like this. Do you want some peanut brittle?
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Oh, wait a minute. You wouldn't even know what that
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is. And da da, da, da.
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And she comes across as like, just very, I don't want to say
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innocent, but kind of, you know, nice.
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And then almost immediately, like, I think the next meeting
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that we see is when she starts going in about, yeah, I heard
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about what that man Negan did to your father and da, da, da, da.
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And you start to see that's a trigger for Herschel, even
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though with Maggie, he doesn't seem to let on.
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But with this person, stranger, what is she going to do?
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So it's like, yeah, you know, I really don't care.
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But she, you know, she's so obsessed him that I can't even,
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and it's just, you know, we see that repeat it later on.
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He's like, I can't even talk about how I feel about the thing
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which we, we've had these discussions about.
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And the DOMA just kind of slides on in there.
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Well, I can't imagine her having to go through that and live
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through that. And I had something that
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happened to me too. And it was hard for me to go
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through and I had to deal with it alone.
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And she, she hasn't been able to heal.
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And how is she supposed to, you know, the one person who's
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supposed to be there for you? She can't because I was sitting
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here like right what? Right, and it also then now
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explains all the animosity because remember before I was
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like he need to talk to his God damn Mama.
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But this now explains why he had the attitude, why he was feeling
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some type of way because she done planted all these damn
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scenes in your mind. Like if she really scared about
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you, if she when she's so focused on herself and she's so
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focused about what, where does that leave you?
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And. What I.
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See you. Yeah, he was spitting back to
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her, 'cause remember when it was.
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Exactly. And got in the car and he was
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like, you just focused on you and what you want.
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You can't see the big picture. You can't see no laser focus on
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me again. When I say when, when she said
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that in this episode, when she said I see you, I was like, Oh
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my God. So now it's like I feel like
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once this season is over, I need to go back and look at the other
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stuff with, with Herschel and Maggie and see if he is spitting
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out everything that she said to him.
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Because just from what she, what we saw in this episode, remember
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this is episode 3. And contrary to what we said
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last week, this season has 8 episodes, not 6.
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So I'm sure we're going to see more, especially because they're
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still in Manhattan and at, at some point, I feel like they're
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going to have to meet face to face.
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So I, I just want to know how Herschel and the Dahmer, OK at
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some point, because there are too many things that have
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happened just in these three episodes.
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Herschel setting the fire, you know, the Dhamma already knowing
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that Negan was trying to save somebody.
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And I think she figured out then, especially when he said it
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was just a kid. It was just a kid.
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I think she knew it was Herschel.
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Yeah. Because in this episode, when
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she's talking to him and she's talking about the things that
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they're going to have to do to protect this new world they're
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trying to bring. And she said, and when you get
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home, there may be some things that you have to do there that
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you might not necessarily like. I was like, wait a minute.
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I'm sitting here trying to figure out if Herschel is the
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spot. Like, is there some kind of way
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he's getting word back to her? I don't know if I feel like he's
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sophisticated enough to do that yet.
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But if she's grooming him in this way and she's brainwashing
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him, ain't no telling what he's doing.
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I mean, he already knew how to send the signal.
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So at some point she probably told him, if you make it back to
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the city, do this and I'll know you're here.
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And and yeah, it's it's like it makes you look at Herschel in a
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different light because, you know, up until this point, we're
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looking at him as just an angry child, spoiled child, whatever,
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which he is. All of those things.
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And if you also got somebody, if you got that bad Angel sitting
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on your shoulder whispering in your ear, that's gonna escalated
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because there are times like the the time when he found the girl
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from from the new group we meet in this episode.
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His facial expression is different.
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He looks more childlike. He looks more innocent.
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He looks more free. He looks more, you know, him.
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And I was like, it's such a it's, it's very subtle, but it's
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such a difference the way his face is when he's with other
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people and then the way he is with Maggie, especially when
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he's upset with Maggie. But like that talk they had in
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the I think they're called the foragers in their little cafe
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headquarters When she was like, you remember when I asked you if
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the city had a had some kind of pull on you?
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You told me no, but does it? She said, I just need to
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understand. And the way he looked, he was
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looking at her like, and I was just, I was like, dude.
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What is? Are you even?
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Really here 'cause he, he had that kind of far what the, what
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they describe in books, that far off glassy look, that's how he
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looked. And I was like, oh, this helper
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did a number on him. And I just, I don't know if
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Maggie is, I don't know if she's equipped to deal with that
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because I don't think they've really had a situation that
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they've dealt with where someone was brainwashed like that.
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Not to that degree. I mean, you had, you probably
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had your saviors who were to some extent, but that was more
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so because most of them were trying to survive.
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And they were like scared of me again, because he had gotten
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into that character so much that he started being this person.
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And they're like, yeah, no, we ain't, we ain't fucking with
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him, you know what I'm saying? But yeah, that the whole
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Herschel and Damma thing, it's so strange because she she does
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the thing first where they they have him tied up.
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She lets him go, she gives him the peanut brittle.
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She tells him she's going to bring him a bed and a blanket.
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And then you see him at another time.
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And I'm assuming this is probably maybe a few days or a
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few weeks later because I can't remember how long he was there
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before they rescued him. But he has like a desk in his,
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in his little cell room, whatever you want to call it.
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And he's drawing. And that's when she comes in.
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She starts having a conversation with him, but she's also giving
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him, you know, more food. She's making it seem like she's
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befriending him. And like she, oh, I've been,
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I've been so lonely this whole time.
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And, you know, now I have a little friend to talk to, and
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she leaves the door kind of cracked open.
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And so at night, that night, he tries to go out and there's, of
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course, a Walker there that he has to fight off.
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And when it's almost getting him, she kills it.
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She was like, oh, I'm so sorry that you had to deal with that.
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And oh, I'm so glad you found your way out.
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Let me show you something. It's like fish.
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Ain't no other walkers in your hallway.
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We know you planted that Walker just specifically for this
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purpose. But of course, I don't think
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again, Hershel, I think at this time is like 13, 'cause I think
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I saw a time, I saw a timeline somewhere that was like, he's
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supposed to be 19 now. And like, I'm like, no, I don't
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think he's, I don't think he's that old, I don't think.
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But she takes him into this, this other room.
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And the room has lots of art. It has paintings, it has
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sculptures. It has everything that would
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appeal to a young artist. And he's looking around.
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Even when he looks at the sculpture of the mask that she
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says was by her favorite artist, he has that dreamy look again,
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like, oh, and I was like, that's how she's getting him because
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she's letting him know things that are important to her,
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things that she cares about, things that she liked.
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And then she's showing them to him.
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And I was like, this is where Maggie Lawson, because I don't.
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She probably has never done that with him, right, You know,
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because if she's been all this obsessed with with Megan and
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still living in the past, I mean, how long has it been?
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Has Maggie even been with anybody else?
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Like, I understand having a type of love for someone that is
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everlasting, but what she's doing is so unhealthy, not just
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for her but for Herschel, too. Yeah, you know, and so you see
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him and he's looking, he's you can tell he feels connected to
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her. And then she closes the damn
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door and turns the thing on and the whole room starts shaking
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and they're on an elevator. That's what I thought when I say
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I said she don't build the whole room in the elevator.
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But then you have to remember they're in that big ass theater.
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So I'm sure the elevators is probably like a service
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elevator. But yeah, novel idea.
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Yeah, I think I want an elevator room.
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But yes, I I I thought that but I've never seen no elevator with
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no window. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So outside. Yeah, OK.
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Maybe I'm sheltered. No.
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Well, I mean, because the Peachtree Plaza has an elevator
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that if you if you think about the Westin the Westin Peachtree
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Plaza downtown, the big one circular building, there's all
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sphere on the side that is an elevator and it it and it looks
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out on. Yeah.
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OK, And then I'm supposed to try that.
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Hello. Steve Rogers fought he fought
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hydrate You are after the windows.
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Was that around? But that kind of old timey
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elevator is, I agree, that's kind of weird.
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But the thing with that though, and I think it's genius, is also
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she says that Herschel probably has never felt at home anywhere.
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Because I mean, think about it, when he was a kid, him and
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Maggie moved around. They they went to her grandpa,
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her grandmother's house in South Carolina for a little bit.
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And then they were on the road. And then they were with Jordy
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Georgie, and then they were with Meridian.
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And then they came to Commonwealth and now they're at
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the bricks. So Herschel, I don't think has
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ever had a sense of permanence. So even when we when we saw the
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first episode of this season, when he and Maggie were going
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into his room, you know, they were talking about giving his
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desk to another family, he was just like, yeah, I don't really
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use it anymore anyway, so it's fine.
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But if you looked at his room compared to the to the room she
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built him, his room was very bare.
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It didn't really have a lot of personal effects.
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So the fact that this woman who, you know, I guess it's kind of
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sort of your captor if depending on what his mindset was, she
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created a whole room for him because he was like, what is
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this? Is this your room?
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She was like, no, this is yours. I had this created especially
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for you. And you can see the awe on his
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face, like nobody has ever done this for me.
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Yeah. He.
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He never had no room. Now we've moved around and in
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the room, he you do have that, the bricks.
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Yeah, like I said, it's very, very basic, very minimal.
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Isn't is, is not personalized at all.
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And he's just, he, I just don't think he's ever really felt a
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sense of belonging. And I think maybe that kind of
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goes back to the whole Commonwealth thing too, that I
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was talking about last week. Even though he was there and he
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had Judith and Hersh, I mean, RJ and Gracie and what other kids
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were there, he probably still kind of sort of felt like an
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outsider. These are kids who have been
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together for years and he was just coming in.
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And then of course, they, they moved to the Commonwealth and
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that's another move from Alexandria to the Commonwealth,
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even though Alexandra was already kind of rough when they
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got there. But I, I just think she, she saw
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a way to get to him and she did it.
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And when she saw his drawing, she complimented his drawings.
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And, you know, she didn't think anything about what he was
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drawing was weird because he was drawing the city the way he saw
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it. And then, of course, she brings
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up she was like, somebody else would have fixed it.
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He was like, I don't even know what these buildings look like
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before. Why?
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But how would I do that? Yeah.
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So he was like, but I don't think they need fix.
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And I think they they're fine the way they are.
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And then you hear him later on in the episode talking to
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Maggie. He says everybody's looking at
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the city like it's broken. It's it's abandoned, he said.
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And I don't see it that way. It was like, yes, broken, it's
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abandoned, but it's also beautiful.
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And it, it can be something else.
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And you kind of felt like he was talking about himself.
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And I think Maggie kind of picked up on that, too, because
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her face looked horrified. Like, is this how it been making
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him feel? Yes, yes.
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You have been so caught up in your grief that you have not
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thought about what it's doing to your child.
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And I'm not saying that she shouldn't grieve.
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Yes, you can grieve. You can still grieve.
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You still be triggered. But.
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There has to be a point where, yes, you know, these things
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trigger you, yes, you know, they bother, but they're you have to
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be able to in a sense, live with it so that you can move.
00:17:39
On especially in the midst of a zombie apocalypse, you have a
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lot of loss that you've dealt with.
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You will probably deal with more loss.
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You can't shut down every single time something like that
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happens. Because what's going to happen
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if you're, let's say, in a situation where you're in a park
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overgrown with trees and walkers are coming out of the place and
00:18:02
you get separated from your son? What are you going to do then?
00:18:09
And I mean, we see what she does, but it's kind of like, are
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you really thinking straight when you're doing it?
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Are you just like, I got to go find my son.
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I got to go find my son. Maggie is very tunnel visiony
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like she has, I said this one track mind.
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This is my goal. This is what I'm.
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Doing and I don't care what I have to do in order to get it,
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because my thought is if it, and this is, I mean, we get, I get
00:18:39
it, We need a show. We need but if you this upset
00:18:42
with me again you wouldn't give give a damn what happened to him
00:18:47
after you dropped his ass off to the Croat.
00:18:49
Like you wouldn't have cared after season 1.
00:18:51
You wouldn't have had to go back and save him.
00:18:53
You would have just said fuck him.
00:18:55
His fate is his fate. Man, OK, so I've been thinking
00:18:59
about that a lot in light of us talking about the show.
00:19:03
And then because we have a panel coming up where we discussed
00:19:06
Maggie and her actions or whatever.
00:19:09
And, you know, I think I've kind of sort of figured out what
00:19:14
Maggie's issue is. And I think it's not necessarily
00:19:19
about her being able to let Megan go, her being able to
00:19:24
forgive. I think really for Maggie, it's
00:19:30
if she, if she gives Megan any sort of leeway, you know what
00:19:38
I'm saying? Any kind of forgiveness,
00:19:40
whatever, whatever. Because if she, if you look at
00:19:43
the way Megan is now and the way Megan has been with her for
00:19:47
quite a while, again, it's very obvious Megan is not the same
00:19:52
Megan that we met. Negan is a person who's trying
00:19:57
to go back to the person he was before he became savior.
00:20:01
Negan maybe a little bit better version.
00:20:06
And that could be for any number of reasons.
00:20:08
That could be for guilt. That could be because of what
00:20:11
Judith brought out in him. That could be because of what
00:20:14
Jenny brought out of him, Annie, whatever.
00:20:17
But he obviously is trying to be a better person.
00:20:20
You have to be blind not to see that.
00:20:22
And I know Maggie sees and I know that's part of the guilt
00:20:25
that she feels when she does the main things him because she's
00:20:28
like OK at least he's trying because y'all have had some
00:20:30
enemies that didn't give a fuck. But if Maggie stops hating
00:20:37
Negan, eventually she's going to have to turn that hate
00:20:44
somewhere. And I feel like she's going to
00:20:47
look in the mirror and she's going to reflect it on herself
00:20:51
because then she's going to have to start thinking and taking
00:20:55
accountability for her own actions.
00:20:57
And she's going to have to think, how did we get to this
00:21:01
point? And I mean, this is something we
00:21:03
always talk about. Maggie is the one out of the
00:21:08
group who walked into Gregory's room and said, hey, we'll take
00:21:15
care of this savior's problem for you.
00:21:18
But you're going to give us what you were giving them, plus half
00:21:24
of everything else. Maggie made that decision.
00:21:29
Yeah. Maggie was the one who made the
00:21:31
decision that, OK, we're going to go and kill these people.
00:21:34
Yeah. And then, of course, we know
00:21:36
what happened at the outpost, and we know the aftermath of
00:21:39
that. But ultimately, and I was, I
00:21:43
will die on this hill, Maggie is ultimately responsible for their
00:21:48
whole interaction with Negan. Because if they hadn't have done
00:21:52
that, they could have still probably for at for a while at
00:21:56
least, Gregory was a snitch so that it probably wouldn't have
00:21:59
lasted long. But Gregory didn't know where
00:22:02
Alexandria was. They could have.
00:22:05
They could have made their little deal with him.
00:22:07
They could have gone on their own little way and decided to
00:22:11
let that part of the world stay that part of the world.
00:22:14
Let them keep their deal with Negan.
00:22:17
The only other interaction Negan would have had was the people on
00:22:20
the street who killed his folks. He's going to want to know where
00:22:24
those people came from. Yeah, but and and and then maybe
00:22:29
he would have crossed pairs with them and it would have been
00:22:32
totally different. But Maggie will at some point
00:22:37
have to look at that and own her own responsibility for
00:22:43
everything that happened with *** And I don't think she's
00:22:47
what? I don't think she's considered
00:22:49
that yet. And two, I don't think she's
00:22:52
ready to do that yet. That's why she's holding on to
00:22:55
the hate for *** so long, because if she doesn't hate me
00:22:57
again, this you guys start thinking of some other stuff.
00:23:00
But she's got to really start looking at that situation.
00:23:03
She's gonna have to realize, oh, you know what?
00:23:04
I kind of fucked that up. But you also have to remember
00:23:09
back in season 1, Negan basically said that he said that
00:23:14
to her so she's aware. He said had y'all not came in
00:23:19
and fucked with my people, all he was doing was the same thing
00:23:23
Rick would have done had someone snuck in today.
00:23:27
You know, the thing was, Negan had more people, but had Rick
00:23:30
had a whole gang of people and Negan people came and snuffed
00:23:35
out some of the the survivors, we would have felt somewhat
00:23:39
exactly. Yes.
00:23:44
Yeah. But they, but here's the thing,
00:23:46
and this is the other thing I said, like I know we are Rick's
00:23:49
people. Rick.
00:23:50
Rick has done some questionable things, but we still stand
00:23:54
behind him because we've been following Rick's journey from
00:23:57
the beginning. But everybody else, the
00:24:02
Governor, Alpha, Megan, the Wolves, everybody came at Rick
00:24:10
and they group front face the Terminus people.
00:24:14
They came and confronted them, Maggie and Rick and all of them.
00:24:20
When they went after Megan's people, they did it in the dark,
00:24:25
they did it undercover, they did it while people were asleep and
00:24:28
defenseless. And I'm sorry, on the one hand
00:24:35
that is a very smart move because you're making sure none
00:24:37
of your people are going to get hurt.
00:24:39
But I'm the same at the same time.
00:24:41
Y'all supposed to be so big and bad.
00:24:44
Why would y'all do that in that cowardly way, you know?
00:24:49
But again, it it, it could have been different.
00:24:54
Like if we'd, and we've said this before, if we had started
00:24:57
following the journey of Megan through this, like if, if, if
00:25:02
that episode in 10 C the here's Megan episode, if that's where
00:25:06
we started the show. And then we followed him all the
00:25:10
way through what he went through with the people losing Lucille,
00:25:15
what made him decide? Oh, OK, so y'all cause me the,
00:25:18
you know, basically contribute to my wife's death 'cause I
00:25:23
couldn't get her medicine back to her.
00:25:24
So now I'm about to kill all y'all and everything that
00:25:26
happened. From there.
00:25:27
We would totally be Team Megan. Absolutely.
00:25:31
So it's the. Perspective that you received
00:25:34
'cause even, even if you go back to when Virgil, Virgil gave
00:25:43
Michelle in the hallucinogen yes and she ended up on the inside
00:25:48
because remember Rick Nim just drove right past her like she
00:25:50
wasn't shit. Same way they did the other
00:25:53
backpack guy who eventually they, he died and they ended up
00:25:56
stealing his butt backpack. But you, you have to look at it.
00:25:59
It's based on the perspective of the story that you're given.
00:26:02
We only got one side of the story.
00:26:04
And on our side Rick and the survivors are correct, right.
00:26:08
Oh, let us preemptive strike and and get ahead of this thing,
00:26:13
Yeah. And then you think about the
00:26:15
other things you think about, and I know we're going away into
00:26:20
the weeds, we're going to reel it back in.
00:26:21
But you think, you think about when Rick and his people got to
00:26:24
Alexandria and they were like, OK, if the Alex, if these people
00:26:27
don't conform and do what we tell them to do to survive them,
00:26:30
we just going to take it. We're going to take it from
00:26:33
them. The same thing we sit here
00:26:36
complaining about New Babylon, what they're doing.
00:26:39
Y'all just don't go in and take something somebody else made.
00:26:42
Now, luckily, that didn't happen with Rick and his crew because
00:26:46
they realized, OK, these people just don't know any better
00:26:49
because they've never had to know better.
00:26:51
Yeah. And they were eventually able to
00:26:54
build community with the Alexandras, So that's the good
00:26:58
thing. But yeah, going back to going
00:27:00
back to Maggie, Yeah. I I really feel like that's why
00:27:04
she's holding on to Negan so much.
00:27:07
And it's, again, it's damaging her relationship with her son.
00:27:12
Yeah, you know, she has the argument with him because once
00:27:15
they, when they separated, Herschel is off in Central Park
00:27:19
by himself and he comes across this girl who, who helps him get
00:27:25
away from the walkers because they're surrounded by walkers.
00:27:28
And I know we're going way out of order, but we'll, we'll,
00:27:31
we'll get back around. But then, you know, eventually
00:27:36
he gets ready to be attacked and Megan comes to the rescue and he
00:27:41
looks at Megan. It's almost like he's confused
00:27:43
at 1st and then he has a gun in his hand.
00:27:46
He shoots at Megan. And then it's like he's trying
00:27:50
to figure out like, did I just do that?
00:27:51
When he looks, Megan is gone. But he's so confused.
00:27:54
He doesn't know what to do because again, the only thing he
00:27:59
he knows about Megan is from what Maggie has told him and
00:28:02
probably what other people may have mentioned to him.
00:28:05
But all of his experiences with Negan personally, Negan has
00:28:11
never hurt him. Negan has never been mean to
00:28:13
him. Negan actually saved his life,
00:28:17
you know, not once, twice. He saved his life in the main
00:28:21
show and then he just saved his life with this with this boat.
00:28:26
And then I don't know if you noticed it when Negan, when we
00:28:29
see Megan again after that encounter with Herschel and he's
00:28:32
sitting there looking upset, he has tears coming out his eyes
00:28:39
because that, you know, for for Megan, I think Herschel will
00:28:44
always be a reminder of the bad shit of the worst thing he's
00:28:48
ever done. You know what I'm saying?
00:28:50
That will that will always be a reminder for him.
00:28:53
And I know he has conflict about that, but Maggie, Maggie,
00:28:58
Maggie, I just. Yeah.
00:29:01
It's like when you, when you see all of this stuff and what's
00:29:03
going on with the diamond, how she's kind of manipulating
00:29:07
Herschel and kind of getting in there, it's like it's so easy to
00:29:10
see where things have gone wrong.
00:29:13
Yeah. And I, I just, I have a feeling
00:29:17
things are going to get so much worse because it's like 1
00:29:22
minute. Herschel was trying to be nice,
00:29:25
we're trying to be civil, and then the next minute he's going
00:29:28
off. It's like he doesn't have a
00:29:30
handle on his emotions, which, again, teenager, that's not what
00:29:33
we expect. But you're really not in a
00:29:36
position right now where you can have that luxury.
00:29:39
You got to keep your head on straight.
00:29:41
You are in enemy territory. Granted, you have a new group
00:29:45
that just saved your ass. Yeah, but even with that, even
00:29:53
with that, I was like, you know what?
00:29:57
Here we are. We've encountered a new group
00:30:01
and already somebody has died. Don't take a.
00:30:06
Long when these these mother fuckers is involved, don't take
00:30:09
a long at all right? Although they didn't kill them.
00:30:13
They didn't kill it, but it's it's still almost like just
00:30:17
being in their proximity. Get away from me.
00:30:23
Right. Because it, it's not Maggie,
00:30:27
it's not Herschel. But if you think about it, all
00:30:29
the really, really crazy stuff started when Rick got to the
00:30:34
green farm, when they got over there, that's when Carl got
00:30:37
shot. And then everything went
00:30:40
downhill from there, downhill from there.
00:30:42
Because the stuff from before that was kind of anyway, OK,
00:30:49
we're gonna we're gonna step away from Maggie for a little
00:30:50
bit because we have gone way into the weeds with this
00:30:53
conversation. Let's talk about the new people
00:30:58
and, and the new Babylonians and and their interactions because
00:31:04
I'm so tired. Tired of that bitch of nevaehs
00:31:13
she getting on my. Damn that she really is stage a
00:31:18
coop during the middle of a funeral.
00:31:22
Not even not even that. Let's let's let's rewind it a
00:31:25
little bit. You all are tracing through
00:31:28
Central Park or what used to be Central Park is overgrown.
00:31:32
It's got monkeys because you hear the monkeys.
00:31:36
Something else was at the zoo. Something else is in there
00:31:40
'cause you heard something roar, but you're going through you've
00:31:45
just lost all these people, including your governor and then
00:31:50
you. Look in it.
00:31:53
I don't think that was her, OK? I don't think that was her.
00:31:56
I think that was another 'cause when I looked, there was one
00:32:00
shot of, I think it was Jenny, and you could see some of the
00:32:04
people behind her. There were actually two other
00:32:06
black women in that scene, all with the same curly hair.
00:32:11
I can hear Michelle now. They probably raided the same
00:32:14
waist. Well, no.
00:32:16
You know black women in that natural.
00:32:20
I don't know if that natural would be that late 2020 years
00:32:23
into a zombie apocalypse. It would be looking more like
00:32:27
Sasha's hair. No disrespect, but I was trying.
00:32:30
To give him the benefit of the though, I'm saying.
00:32:32
Sasha's hair was definitely natural, you know?
00:32:35
But yeah, so you're going, you're going through the park,
00:32:40
you're you're trying to regroup. And Maggie says, OK, so we need
00:32:46
to sit here, rest, and then we need to figure out how to go
00:32:48
home. And then she and Pearly start
00:32:50
going back and forth because Pearly is like, but we're
00:32:54
already here. We need to do such such.
00:32:55
And the bias is like, no, we need to go get the methane.
00:32:58
And you know, it occurred to me when she said that I was like,
00:33:03
you don't even know what getting the methane means.
00:33:05
You think you're just going to go pick up a few containers of
00:33:10
this gas? I don't think they realize how
00:33:14
it's a whole elaborate separation.
00:33:17
It is. And I'm sitting here looking at
00:33:21
her and when Pearly agrees with her, she has this look like, I
00:33:26
thought so. And I was just like, again,
00:33:29
y'all are so fucking dumb. Yeah, you just lost what what
00:33:35
the mag said. You just lost 50 people, and we
00:33:37
don't want to lose 50 more than take your ass home.
00:33:39
You have what you what you're dealing with y'all.
00:33:42
Y'all just walking randomly. Here comes a Walker tied up in
00:33:46
some vines. They were able to get one of
00:33:48
your people. And then you go deeper into the
00:33:53
park. You see it's overgrown and you
00:33:57
just push through because you, because Pearly says there's a
00:34:02
what did he say? There's a river or a lake, and
00:34:05
then there's a boathouse on the other side.
00:34:08
Dude, you ain't been here. Since when?
00:34:10
How do you even know that stuff is still there?
00:34:14
You know somebody else hasn't come to take it.
00:34:19
Because I don't know if I was looking at the wrong thing.
00:34:22
I didn't see not a bit of water on that ground.
00:34:26
I didn't either. Looks like the looks like the
00:34:29
river, the lake, whatever has been overgrown, dried up.
00:34:36
So you're going through all of these weeds and the grass and
00:34:42
everything and you're just going through you're making noise.
00:34:46
I'm like have y'all encountered dormant walkers in the field
00:34:53
before? Again, I just zombie killing
00:35:00
one-on-one different group of people, but you.
00:35:05
Already know the people from New Babylon don't know shit.
00:35:07
They relying on their guns but. That's the thing, you have been
00:35:11
in this zombie apocalypse for more than a decade, almost 2
00:35:15
decades at this point. True.
00:35:17
OK true. You should know some basics like
00:35:23
if there is grass, if there is an open field and the open field
00:35:27
just going to be empty, especially New York, Manhattan.
00:35:35
Did your spies not? I don't know.
00:35:38
I they were going through there and just, you know, they're,
00:35:42
they're like going through the grass and chopping through the
00:35:44
grass. And then of course, folks start
00:35:46
disappearing. I was like, OK, here we go.
00:35:50
And then you have like walkers coming at you from all
00:35:53
directions. Everybody scatters.
00:35:55
Nevaez was looking at Jenny like she was about to push Jenny into
00:35:59
some of them walkers. She was all about same with
00:36:02
herself, honey, so they're. All fighting with walkers.
00:36:07
Jenny loses her bag that has the gun in it and then first she,
00:36:11
like I said, he's off to himself.
00:36:14
Maggie gets pulled off to herself and I was just like, I
00:36:20
understand why Maggie kind of went on with it because they're
00:36:25
they're still threatening her. If you desert, then you know,
00:36:30
you're 20 people back home. They're still going to pay the
00:36:33
consequence. Y'all act like y'all are going
00:36:36
to get out of New York first of all.
00:36:38
First of all, you act like you I.
00:36:41
Could have sworn you were told in the beginning this was a
00:36:43
death mission, so somebody said that.
00:36:47
Right. And not only that, y'all keep
00:36:49
calling it an exploratory mission when obviously it's not
00:36:53
because Novias is still like, no, we're going to get the
00:36:56
methane and then we're going to go home.
00:36:57
And Pearly is like it's a. Like it's a little bag.
00:37:01
That methane, that methane will help the families.
00:37:04
And Maggie is like, oh, the families of the kids that that
00:37:07
just died, the ones that y'all told them they had to serve.
00:37:09
Like really? Y'all Y'all let the kids die,
00:37:12
but they're supposed to be happy.
00:37:14
Y'all got methane. Yeah, don't give a damn about
00:37:17
that method, Mama left, didn't come back.
00:37:22
No, the kids left and didn't come back.
00:37:26
They were recruiting the younger people.
00:37:30
So yeah, they're they're going through the grass, they're going
00:37:36
through all this stuff. And like I said, they got
00:37:38
walkers coming from everywhere. And then Herschel notices the
00:37:43
Walker that killed one of the soldiers, the first one, it's
00:37:46
heart is missing. And he's just looking at it like
00:37:50
ain't holding the shift. That's interesting.
00:37:52
But he didn't say anything. So that that kind of made me
00:37:57
feel like, and I will say this too, the rest of the episode,
00:38:02
the way that Herschel's talking, the way that the diamond has
00:38:05
kind of groomed him, I feel like he might kind of be on that.
00:38:12
I don't know if spectrum is the word that I want to use, but I
00:38:15
feel like he is similar to like maybe Nick from Fear The Walking
00:38:21
Dead or Alpha and Beta in that he looks at the dark stuff a
00:38:27
little differently and the other people.
00:38:31
But I also feel like it's because, like the Dhamma said,
00:38:36
he knows nothing of the world before, right?
00:38:39
Because the world had already fallen when he was born.
00:38:42
So this is all he's ever known. So I'm sure he doesn't look at
00:38:47
it differently. This is not strange to him.
00:38:50
This is all he's ever known. Yeah.
00:38:52
I, I feel like him looking at a Walker or him looking at a
00:38:56
destroyed city, it will be just like us going to another city
00:39:03
and seeing their skyline. It's like, oh, that's something
00:39:05
pretty. I've never seen it before.
00:39:07
That's how he looks at Manhattan.
00:39:10
It's something different. You know, he's probably never
00:39:13
seen massive buildings like that because in Virginia, the area of
00:39:17
Virginia they were in, there's no skyscrapers.
00:39:19
They weren't in in a downtown, you know, metropolitan area in
00:39:24
South Carolina. When they went to Maggie
00:39:26
Grandmothers House, they were on the beach.
00:39:31
So that probably was something kind of magical to him.
00:39:36
And then here you have the Dhamma whispering in his ear.
00:39:39
Oh yeah. You know, everybody wants to
00:39:40
take it back the way that it was, but you see it for what it
00:39:43
could be, or you understand it and blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:39:46
And she's making him feel important and seen and like his
00:39:50
opinion matters and values it, right.
00:39:56
But anyway, going back to the going back to Central Park.
00:40:01
So like I said. Herschel gets rescued by this
00:40:04
one girl from one of the Barazi, and we'll we'll come to that.
00:40:12
But on the other side, Maggie and the rest of the game, they
00:40:17
find this, I guess it was supposed to be like a cafe.
00:40:21
And there's some people coming out of it strangely dressed the
00:40:24
the dress kind of primitively. And they leave them inside and
00:40:28
inside they're baking stuff with ovens and all this other stuff.
00:40:32
And I'm looking around like, what are they doing?
00:40:34
And then the leader, you meet her.
00:40:37
And I was like, I'm going to like her, which is bad because I
00:40:40
have a feeling she's going to die because she's around this
00:40:43
group of mother fuckers, Yeah. That'll do it.
00:40:49
But she's like, yeah, you guys are making a lot of noise.
00:40:53
We could have just left you out there.
00:40:54
But we, you know, we went on ahead and saved you.
00:40:57
And we just want you to leave when it's time to leave, act
00:41:01
like, you know, leave. Don't come back.
00:41:03
Act like we don't exist because we don't exist.
00:41:06
And I'm like, yeah, y'all, y'all are still sitting in the park 20
00:41:10
years in the. Cut though 'cause you ain't
00:41:12
nobody trying to fight that force to to go fuck with them.
00:41:16
And apparently what they do is when they, their people die,
00:41:22
they take the hearts out and then they allow the walkers to
00:41:26
roam Central Park. What did she tell them?
00:41:29
She was like, we did. They protect us.
00:41:31
And it's not about killing them. She was like, those are our
00:41:33
brothers, our sisters, our husbands, our children.
00:41:37
You know, though, they are US. And as long as they kind of
00:41:41
familiar. Yeah, but in a different way.
00:41:44
Yeah, but when she said that was like.
00:41:47
Yeah, because basically she was like, look, they're out there
00:41:51
and if you notice, they don't, they don't really come into that
00:41:54
enclosure. So I don't know if that that
00:41:57
little place is kind of soundproofed or whatever, but
00:42:00
she was like, they protect us. And as long as they protect us,
00:42:04
we're good. Nobody comes this far in.
00:42:07
And what was it that the Croat told Negan?
00:42:09
Anybody who goes in, they don't come out.
00:42:12
So whether the walkers or whether they see these people
00:42:15
and they're like, oh, y'all got y'all got I'll intentions, we're
00:42:18
going to kill y'all. We're going to make y'all part
00:42:20
of the Walker, her whatever, OK, But whatever it is they've done,
00:42:25
it's worked up until now. So our group come along because
00:42:32
the girl who helps Herschel get stabbed by the person who is in
00:42:37
the the thing with me again. And then, you know, they take
00:42:41
her back. And he stabs her so
00:42:43
unnecessarily. You know what?
00:42:44
OK, so unnecessarily. So let's talk about let's talk
00:42:48
about him for a minute, OK? Because first of all, him and
00:42:55
the Croat and and and we keep saying this, the Croat keeps
00:43:01
trying to talk to Negan like I'm, I'm gonna eventually bring
00:43:05
the old Negan back out. The old Negan back out.
00:43:08
I don't know why you want to do that, but OK.
00:43:10
But you make this comment to Negan and you're like, I
00:43:14
understand, you know, I understand why you hesitated
00:43:17
with the boat. You were saving a child and
00:43:19
you've you've always said children were off limits.
00:43:22
So I'll just, you know, I'll make sure that you won't be the
00:43:25
one to have to kill the child. And then this dude says I'll do
00:43:30
it for you with a laugh. I said OK, so at some point he's
00:43:34
going to die in this episode because Negan was looking at
00:43:37
both of them like I could stab y'all.
00:43:38
Now then, Negan is playing the long game.
00:43:42
He's trying to stay safe. I don't know where his end game
00:43:45
is aside from. Him to quit fucking with him.
00:43:48
Aside from making sure Annie and Joshua would get there safe
00:43:50
because I that's the only reason Negan ain't went off on any of
00:43:54
these people. That part.
00:43:55
That and that's the only reason I could see 'cause y'all keep
00:43:58
the number one. They keep threatening them with
00:44:00
oh they'll be hearing this my next week.
00:44:04
What you say they'll be there next week or some shit.
00:44:06
So I'm AI got you by the balls until next week when they come
00:44:11
and then from there, what what you going to do?
00:44:14
Are they coming safely? Are they going to ride safely?
00:44:17
Are they going to like what? What's the deal 'cause it's
00:44:20
going to be something else once they ride?
00:44:22
Negan is kind of playing it close to his chest, but you see
00:44:25
every time, every time the Croat speaks to him, you can text
00:44:29
Negan is imagining bashing his head, but he he keeps his cool.
00:44:36
But he you also notice he's starting to play the Croat
00:44:40
because I think he can see the Croat has some, How do I want to
00:44:48
say it? I feel like he has some
00:44:50
insecurities when it comes to the Dhamma because he feels like
00:44:54
he and the Dhamma are partners. But like Megan said, she treats
00:44:57
you like her red headed stepchild and she really does.
00:45:01
She treats, she treats the Croat like he is the thing on the
00:45:04
bottom of her shoe that she has to scrape off.
00:45:08
And I know it. I know she probably found some
00:45:10
bleach somewhere after she kissed his head last week, last
00:45:15
week. Because she just seems like she
00:45:19
tolerates him. Yeah.
00:45:22
And, you know, I mean, it's her fault.
00:45:24
She was one that saved him and gave him peanut brew.
00:45:27
But. But Negan is sitting there
00:45:30
trying to, you know, kind of cast some doubts.
00:45:32
And then he says, Hey, how about this?
00:45:35
Let me go into the let me go into the park, let me find him.
00:45:39
He was like, if I see any new Babylonians there, we'll kill
00:45:42
him. If the, you know, if the, the
00:45:44
forest hasn't gotten them or if the park hasn't gotten them yet.
00:45:47
So the Croat thinking he's smart, he sends the big stupid
00:45:53
dude with *** and I call him stupid because anybody who takes
00:45:56
Glee and oh, I'll kill him for you, you, you dumb, you dumb
00:46:00
because you just let me, you know, right then and there you
00:46:03
are easy target to kill. I will have no qualms about
00:46:07
killing you later on. So they're going through the
00:46:11
park and stupid is asking dumb questions and just being just an
00:46:19
ass. And there's this little tunnel
00:46:21
that they have to go through and it's it's, you know, it's
00:46:25
surrounded by like, overgrowth and all this other stuff.
00:46:31
And so he looks at Negan and he looks at, I think Negan has a
00:46:35
spear. He was like, after you thinking,
00:46:38
OK, yeah, you're not about to stab me in the back.
00:46:42
So they go into this tunnel and I'm looking and I was like,
00:46:48
yeah, this dude is not going to make it out this tunnel.
00:46:51
Especially once the walkers who are trapped in the vines and the
00:46:55
overgrowth start grabbing for them 'cause they're grabbing for
00:46:58
me. Way bigger than Negan.
00:47:00
Negan, kind of. Yeah, he's right his way out.
00:47:05
So as Negan is trying to pull them off of him, he's like, oh,
00:47:10
I could put them in his way. Let me do this and the dude is
00:47:16
like help me, help me and *** gets out and looks at him.
00:47:19
He was like you traitor, you motherfucker.
00:47:21
Traitor to who? *** wasn't loyal to you or y'all
00:47:25
at. All and has never been.
00:47:28
This is. Your fault.
00:47:29
You were the one who thought you was about to get over by sending
00:47:32
him in first. Because in your mind you're
00:47:34
like, OK, if there's anything in that tunnel or anything on the
00:47:38
other side of the tunnel, they gonna get him first.
00:47:43
Dude. You don't realize Mika has been
00:47:46
dodging. Look, Mika has been dodging
00:47:49
death for a very long time. You just walked right into that
00:47:55
trap. Mika had no problem going first.
00:47:59
No problem. She let me, let me too, right,
00:48:02
'cause Mika's gonna find a way, even he gonna find a way to get
00:48:06
his self away. Right, but now he gonna.
00:48:09
Find a way. But not only that, Negan knows
00:48:13
that dude is not about to stab him because then that dude is
00:48:16
going to have to deal with the Dom.
00:48:17
And like I said, I don't know why she's so big bad and, you
00:48:20
know, important that everybody's scared of her.
00:48:23
But I don't think if if they know that Negan is her new boy
00:48:26
toy, so to speak, they're not going to touch him.
00:48:30
So you did yourself a disservice letting him go through that
00:48:33
tunnel first. Absolutely.
00:48:37
You put yourself on the chopping butt.
00:48:41
But eventually. Because, and this the thing,
00:48:44
because if you're the first one to go through and and and say,
00:48:49
yes, they're in there and they're dormant.
00:48:51
So it's taking them a minute to, you know, wake up basically.
00:48:56
And so if you go through first, you don't, you know, got through
00:49:00
a little stretch. It's the next mother fucker who
00:49:03
coming through who is like, Oh, there's a person.
00:49:05
'Cause they're gonna be in a. Birthday every time.
00:49:08
Yeah, they're gonna be in a party by that point.
00:49:11
Yeah, 'cause they didn't get one, but oh, here comes
00:49:13
something else. And look, that dude is a lot
00:49:16
bigger than me, baby. He got limo meat on them so.
00:49:21
Those they had them a good meal, right?
00:49:23
Right. But I want to know how the fuck
00:49:27
he got a part of that without getting bit up.
00:49:29
Why did he? He got bit up and scratched up.
00:49:32
You could see it. He was bit on this side.
00:49:34
He was scratched on this side. I think he has something else
00:49:37
over here in his stomach. So he was damaged, but I mean,
00:49:40
he was close enough to the exit where I feel like he could have
00:49:45
gotten away and probably didn't. And he did have his own spear.
00:49:49
And I think that's one of the reasons why the girl died so
00:49:52
quickly, because he stabbed her in the leg, which you wouldn't
00:49:56
think she would die that quickly, but if that blade had
00:49:59
Walker blood on it, then it would have killed.
00:50:01
Her quicker and there's a main artery in your leg.
00:50:05
So depending on where he stabbed her, yeah, I could see it.
00:50:08
That's that was my thought. He stabbed that main artery,
00:50:11
right? And that's what killed her.
00:50:13
Well, he didn't. Even have to 'cause when he did
00:50:16
it, you, you saw all the blood start gushing out.
00:50:19
So she ain't had that long any goddamn way.
00:50:22
But like you said, what was the whole point?
00:50:24
And I I understand he probably thought, oh, these are the kids
00:50:28
that NIA saved, not knowing who they were.
00:50:31
He probably, if he was there when Herschel was captive, then
00:50:36
he probably recognizes Herschel, which is probably why he went
00:50:39
for the other girl instead. I mean, why he went for the girl
00:50:42
instead because he didn't know who that was.
00:50:46
But yeah, so unnecessary. But then he's about to try to
00:50:50
kill Herschel, and Herschel pulls out the gun that he finds
00:50:55
in Jenny's bag, 'cause he found Jenny's bag while they were
00:50:57
running around from the walkers. And he tells Herschel he was
00:51:02
like it. He was like, what if you know
00:51:05
how to use that thing? You'd have done it already.
00:51:10
And then he tries to, he tries to get him with the spear.
00:51:13
And that's when Negan drives his spear through his heart.
00:51:17
Negan was like, I'm not gonna make no, no mistakes.
00:51:20
I'm gonna kill your ass dead for sure.
00:51:24
But then, like we said, he and Herschel come face to face.
00:51:28
Herschel has a gun. He looks at him and he shoots.
00:51:30
And I was like, or shoots at him, I should say.
00:51:33
And then next time he looks up, Negan is gone.
00:51:35
But you ain't gonna get 2. Chances to shoot at me?
00:51:41
I mean, I know I told you when you were a little kid that if,
00:51:44
if that day came, I'd be ready, but I just realized that I'm not
00:51:48
ready. Like what I told you when you
00:51:52
were 8 doesn't apply. This is not Kill Bill.
00:51:57
This is not the bride saying so when you're ready, in 20 years,
00:52:01
I'll be with No, this is not that, that moment.
00:52:05
Baby. But then Maggie sinks herself in
00:52:09
deeper because she finds Herschel.
00:52:13
They have the girl. They take her back.
00:52:16
And, you know, she's asking Herschel questions because she
00:52:19
hears that she heard the gunshot, but Herschel had told
00:52:22
her no, that wasn't a gunshot. And then he tells, yeah, that,
00:52:26
you know, tells her about what happened in the thing.
00:52:30
He was like, yeah, no, she got stabbed by somebody else.
00:52:33
Well, who was it? It was it was one of the Croat's
00:52:37
men. And then he got killed by
00:52:38
somebody. And she was like, by who?
00:52:40
And he was like, Negan, Negan, Negan was there.
00:52:42
What was he doing? What did he say blah blah blah
00:52:44
blah blah blah. Your focus back on Negan.
00:52:47
And not in a good way, because your son was literally just
00:52:51
missing. He just barely, truthfully
00:52:56
barely survived that encounter. Because if *** hadn't have come
00:53:00
again, if *** hadn't have saved his life, he would be on the
00:53:06
ground. That dude would have killed him.
00:53:10
Because that dude likes killing children.
00:53:13
It has no qualms about it. But you sitting here obsessed,
00:53:16
where did he go? What did he say?
00:53:18
Did he tell you? Is he with the crow at blah
00:53:20
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah blah And Herschel's like, I
00:53:23
don't know, I don't care. I didn't get a chance to ask him
00:53:25
because I don't give a fuck about *** I don't.
00:53:29
Care at all and mad mom. I don't care.
00:53:37
And she, she's like, OK, OK, calm.
00:53:41
Why are you going to tell him to calm down?
00:53:42
And you, the one that's worked up, Did you not hear him say
00:53:46
that Negan killed the dude? So IE Megan just saved my life
00:53:51
yet again. I thought you wasn't coming to
00:53:59
New York for him. Maggie is getting on my nerves.
00:54:06
She need to let it go. She.
00:54:07
Need to let it go because at this point it's been how he's
00:54:12
supposed to be. 13 so 13. I think a little bit, I think a
00:54:15
little bit older than that. I think he's probably maybe
00:54:18
15-16 around this time. Between 13 and 16 years, she has
00:54:23
had to get over this. Yeah.
00:54:24
And I'm. I don't know.
00:54:26
And there is a there is a way to.
00:54:29
Get over. I don't want to say OK.
00:54:30
Now get over, there's a way to. Come to.
00:54:34
Terms and move on. Come to terms with.
00:54:37
Yeah, there's a way to come to terms with it, because my
00:54:41
thought is at the end of The Walking Dead, Mika had a
00:54:46
conversation with her. We.
00:54:49
And she had a conversation with him and she was like I forgive
00:54:55
and no what she said I she forgive, she forget, but she
00:54:58
don't forget basically OK, but no she.
00:55:03
Can't wish. What did she say?
00:55:04
She can't forgive him, but I But I do see that you're trying and
00:55:10
I can try to. And she was like, but if, if I
00:55:13
you know, but if I see you around and I'm still angry, you
00:55:17
gonna have to give me that. Oh, OK.
00:55:19
But but the man, first of all, the man full out apologize to
00:55:23
you. Not no bullshit apology.
00:55:26
I'm so sorry for what I put you through.
00:55:29
I'm so sorry for what I did to you with tears, with genuine,
00:55:32
sincere tears. This man has felt it.
00:55:35
OK. So again, I'm not saying you got
00:55:38
to get over it, but it's her experience from last year after
00:55:44
your son got kidnapped and he kind of went off on you.
00:55:48
If that didn't tell you that you needed to find a way to come to
00:55:52
terms with it, then you are not really paying attention.
00:55:56
And I mean, like I said, I know, I know it's your grief.
00:56:00
I know it's grief. I know that she was a.
00:56:03
Lot over because you saw. It so I understand but at some
00:56:11
point as a mother you have to ignore your pain and focus on
00:56:20
your children is what we do all the time.
00:56:25
Not saying that is healthy. But.
00:56:31
Don't scar your children. Don't screw your child up
00:56:34
because you are screwed up. That part.
00:56:38
You're supposed to make things better for him.
00:56:42
You're supposed to because. The world already fucked.
00:56:45
Up. You're supposed to make things
00:56:51
better for him. You because all she doing is
00:56:54
showing him. If somebody do you wrong, hold
00:56:57
on to the grass feather like you.
00:57:01
You not leading by example at all and it's one of those.
00:57:06
It's one of those weird things because I mean, grief is a weird
00:57:11
thing in and of itself. You and I know this, it's a
00:57:16
weird thing in and of itself, but at some point you got to put
00:57:21
your, you got to put 1 foot in front of the other and you have
00:57:26
to, you have to push out. I'm not saying she needs to
00:57:29
forget. I'm not saying she needs to
00:57:31
forgive, but this man continuously shows up for you,
00:57:37
saves your son several times, has saved your people when you
00:57:42
abandoned them. Like, I'm not saying he deserves
00:57:47
a big medal, but. Damn it, he at least earns your
00:57:52
respect. You.
00:57:54
Wouldn't even say respect. He has earned a little bit of
00:58:00
grace. Yes, he has earned a little bit
00:58:04
of grace because here's the thing, And, and this is the same
00:58:08
thing like with the Dhamma and with the Croat, you're trying to
00:58:12
take turn a man who is obviously trying to be a different person.
00:58:17
He has made mistakes. He has made huge mistakes.
00:58:21
He's made ugly mistakes. He is trying to do something
00:58:26
better. He's trying to be a better
00:58:27
person, but y'all keep trying to put him back into that old
00:58:32
space. Y'all keep trying to make him
00:58:34
back into this ugly person for various reasons.
00:58:38
I know the Dhamma and the Croat are doing it because they want
00:58:41
power. Maggie keeps throwing that guilt
00:58:45
on him because she needs it, because what is she going to do
00:58:49
without it? Who is she without it?
00:58:53
Because at this point, I don't even remember what Maggie was
00:58:56
like before all of this. You know, I remember she was a
00:59:01
fierce friend. I remember she was loyal.
00:59:05
I remember that she did know how to laugh.
00:59:09
She didn't know how to have fun. You don't see any of that,
00:59:12
Maggie, and you haven't seen it in a long time.
00:59:14
She. Need to get us?
00:59:17
What'd you say you. Need to get her some.
00:59:20
Well, we we've already said that before.
00:59:22
I think we said that first season and we probably said it
00:59:25
towards the end of the main show too.
00:59:27
Here we go on this episode. I mean this season, but but this
00:59:31
is what you're showing your son. Your your son is not seeing
00:59:35
another version of you. And that is so sad because that
00:59:40
made some very easy to manipulate.
00:59:43
Which we have just found out. Which we have just found out.
00:59:50
Right, so. But anyway, so while all this
00:59:57
stuff is going on in the park and why Maggie is looking for
01:00:00
Herschel, you have Curly's people in this place with the
01:00:06
foragers and Pearly is trying to be nice.
01:00:10
OK, When he came up with the join the new Babel I was like Oh
01:00:14
my God, if you don't shut up. I felt like Maggie, like, can
01:00:17
you please stop with bullshit? He was like, look, we can offer.
01:00:21
We can offer each other something.
01:00:22
And Maggie was like, they don't need nothing from you.
01:00:25
Like they have survived here for 20 years or however many years.
01:00:31
They don't need nothing from you.
01:00:33
They showed up. They was just.
01:00:35
Fine, they are doing fine. They look well fed.
01:00:41
Then I have no look, they could have been the type of of people
01:00:45
that when they saw y'all, they could have killed y'all on site
01:00:48
and probably went back and had some more cookies or whatever it
01:00:51
was they were baking. They they could have done that.
01:00:55
They also did not have to invite you into their dwelling to save
01:00:58
you from the walkers. So obviously whatever they're
01:01:02
doing is working and they're managing to hold on to some of
01:01:06
their humanity on top of that. Leave them alone because y'all
01:01:10
obviously don't have it because Nevaez is in the background
01:01:14
talking about Oh yeah don't you see it?
01:01:16
We can, we can add them to the Army, blah, blah, blah, blah,
01:01:18
blah. And probably it's like, don't
01:01:25
you see it? We, we could do that.
01:01:27
Da, da, da, we could do the same thing we did in Roanoke.
01:01:29
And I was like, oh, what did y'all do in Roanoke?
01:01:31
Because the fact that y'all mention Roanoke is suspicious to
01:01:36
me. Because what happened in
01:01:37
Roanoke, VA, years and years and years and years ago, all the
01:01:41
people disappeared and no one ever knew what happened to them.
01:01:44
Oh, is that what y'all did? Did y'all do that too?
01:01:47
Did y'all go in there and, and, and, you know, conscript people
01:01:52
and get rid of the people? What did she say?
01:01:54
We did? We, we divided them.
01:01:55
And then, you know, I think they convinced one side and they, I
01:02:00
don't know, they did some bullshit.
01:02:03
And so she's sitting there conspiring, trying to do it
01:02:05
again. And Curly finally grows some
01:02:08
balls and remembers that he outranks her and he was like,
01:02:11
stand down captain or whatever she is.
01:02:14
And she's like, OK, I was like, yeah, she gonna do some shit.
01:02:20
She getting on my nerves, nervous.
01:02:24
Yeah. Yeah, this getting on my
01:02:26
nervous. Yes, yeah, she, she is.
01:02:33
But their little ritual that they have when when they bring
01:02:38
the girl back and Curly actually offers them some medicine and
01:02:46
the leader, Roxana, she refuses it.
01:02:48
Now this is my thing. I understand.
01:02:50
Y'all have your own, you have your own rituals, you have your
01:02:55
own culture and all this other stuff.
01:02:57
If I was that girl on the table, I would be pissed because I'd be
01:03:00
like, they have a way to save me or to help me.
01:03:04
And you just going to tell them no?
01:03:06
Like, oh, when I first met, when I first met them, when all this
01:03:09
stuff went down, she was on a fourth grade field trip.
01:03:13
They all were we're all together and it'll be all right.
01:03:18
Bear chicken saved my life. Excuse me that part that part
01:03:23
made me mad look modern medicines and me, but give me
01:03:27
the drugs keep right. That part made me mad because it
01:03:31
felt like that that was a very prideful thing.
01:03:34
I feel like because rather than I guess in debt themselves to
01:03:39
Pearly, which I'm sure they probably would have tried to
01:03:41
leverage it, but still, you're talking about a girl's life if
01:03:44
if you could have saved her. But no, you need another person
01:03:48
for your Walker pool outside. So they have this really
01:03:53
intimate ceremony that Herschel actually takes part in.
01:03:57
And I don't know what it was about this girl or what it was
01:03:59
about that girl. I think, well, no, let me see.
01:04:02
I know what it was about her for him.
01:04:06
I think the the appeal was she was a part of this new world.
01:04:11
You know, this untouched on, I guess you could say untainted
01:04:19
version of people like, you know, you have people like
01:04:22
Maggie and and and Pearly and Novaeus or I think that's her
01:04:26
name, Novaeus. They're all trying to bring back
01:04:29
the old world. And these people are not trying
01:04:32
to do that. They're like, look, this is what
01:04:33
the world is trying to leave us alone.
01:04:35
Let us, we have adapted. We are OK, Let us.
01:04:40
And I think that's what kind of struck him with her.
01:04:43
That's why he was trying so hard to kind of connect with her,
01:04:47
because she wasn't like anybody else that he knew, You know,
01:04:51
these people. She was a young kid.
01:04:54
She was a young kid, that's what I'm saying.
01:04:55
But she's grown up in the wild, you know, she hasn't.
01:05:01
They haven't tried to redomesticate themselves.
01:05:04
They're like, oh, OK, we we stuck here in the park.
01:05:07
We're going to adapt and we're going to figure out ways to
01:05:09
learn and thrive. And I think, again, going back
01:05:13
to what I was saying earlier, I think that appeals to him
01:05:17
because that's all he's ever known is this type of world.
01:05:20
He doesn't want to do the normal things like Maggie used to do or
01:05:24
what they used to do back before the world ended.
01:05:27
So I think that appeals to him, you know, but then they, you
01:05:33
know, they, they do the ceremony and then we find out why the
01:05:37
walkers will walk around with no hearts because they take the
01:05:40
hearts out. They put the people outside so
01:05:44
they can join the Walker her and then they feed the hearts to the
01:05:48
walkers, which I guess in in in kind of a way is kind of like a
01:05:51
sacrifice, but it's also like giving a part of that that
01:05:55
person's soul back to the others of their I I don't know.
01:06:00
I just want to say the heart ain't big enough for no fucking
01:06:03
walkers to share. That's why I was only a few of
01:06:07
them. What you grabbed it that that's
01:06:11
got on my nerve. I said now you all know damn
01:06:14
well 'cause So when he grabbed the heart and he's eating on it,
01:06:17
then he move over to the side so the other Walker could get some.
01:06:21
Now I think the other Walker was kind of pushing himself in me.
01:06:24
I. Said.
01:06:25
That heart ain't but Disney that's a meal for one while
01:06:29
y'all trying to have it be a GroupMe a a buffet.
01:06:35
Yeah but you know what? The way that she looked when
01:06:39
they put her out and the way her heart.
01:06:42
Like the heart was still fresh but she looked like she had
01:06:44
already been dead for a year. So I'm gonna assume that heart
01:06:48
probably started to go bad very quickly.
01:06:52
And maybe once it tastes like a dead person, they're like, OK,
01:06:55
you know what? There's no doesn't it doesn't
01:06:58
have that fresh blood taste anymore.
01:07:01
So we're just going to take a couple of bites and then go
01:07:03
about our business. Yeah.
01:07:05
See what else we can find. Let's go find us a monkey or
01:07:09
something. Not a monkey or something.
01:07:14
I I mean, yeah, but going back to the Dharma, because I think
01:07:22
that was really, yeah, the foragers were interesting and
01:07:25
stuff. But again, I just have this
01:07:28
feeling, you know, whenever our people encounter new, a new
01:07:32
group, those people dying, I mean, Maggie is part of that
01:07:36
because last season we had that whole new group.
01:07:39
They have been surviving. They have been surviving
01:07:41
fighting with the Baratzi and then Maggie and them show up and
01:07:44
they all die. So I'm not gonna get too
01:07:47
attached to these people 'cause I have a feeling they're not
01:07:49
gonna be around for very. Long Nah now we probably got 3
01:07:54
or 4 episodes with them. Wait, no, I give it. 2 episodes.
01:07:59
So this was one. This was one.
01:08:01
OK, that's what I was about to ask.
01:08:03
Are you saying two additional episodes?
01:08:04
Are you saying you know? People don't really last past
01:08:07
two episodes cause who have we had to come on that You can
01:08:12
think of that still here besides Maggie, me and Herschel.
01:08:16
Well, the Barazi, but yeah, in it.
01:08:21
But you know what? Maggie and Megan haven't really
01:08:24
well, Negan has been there and we already see that somebody got
01:08:29
off this episode. So yeah.
01:08:32
Yeah, But I I don't I don't think the forges are gonna be
01:08:36
around. I'm kind of like you.
01:08:38
I give it to maybe the next episode.
01:08:40
If they survive past the next episode, I will be surprised.
01:08:44
I would. We're going back to the Dahmer
01:08:50
and her manipulation. I think it was last episode.
01:08:53
We were trying to figure out what it was she did before the
01:08:57
fall because she is so good at manipulation and at just kind of
01:09:07
weaving her words and making them stick.
01:09:10
Because again, like I said, when Herschel talks about her or when
01:09:14
he talks about New York, his face takes on this really
01:09:23
dreamy. I, I don't know, it takes on a
01:09:28
very weird quality. And I, I, I give it to to Logan
01:09:32
Kim, the actor who's playing him.
01:09:35
He's doing a great job with that because it unless you're really
01:09:39
paying attention to his face like that, you probably wouldn't
01:09:42
even notice. But he has certain facial
01:09:45
expressions that you see when he's around certain people or
01:09:50
when he's when he's looking at certain people even because even
01:09:56
with Jenny and Jenny is another thing.
01:09:59
Jenny is weird to me because you spent all this time mad with
01:10:06
Maggie, acting mad, giving her the silent treatment, telling
01:10:10
her you're not my mom and all this stuff.
01:10:12
But every time you look at her and her should interact you, you
01:10:16
got a little bit of jealousy on your face.
01:10:20
And then you got a little bit of anger because she was over there
01:10:22
listening to Novias a little too intently for my for my taste.
01:10:28
I was like, but you know, you know, Novaye asked me in the
01:10:33
background, scheming and plotting.
01:10:34
So and don't tell them what the hell she could possibly could
01:10:37
have said. But that's what I'm saying.
01:10:40
Jenny was paying attention to her and remember when was
01:10:46
Novayez was talking about, talking about trying to ambush
01:10:50
the foragers. So I'm like, I hope Jenny is not
01:10:53
about to be a part of that. I need Jenny to set out 'cause
01:11:00
then she gonna go snatch her bag back from Herschel, but he could
01:11:04
have left it in the woods. He could have told.
01:11:06
He could have told Maggie. Oh, Jenny.
01:11:08
Yeah, she. Got a gun?
01:11:10
Where she get this going from that ain't that ain't one of our
01:11:13
guns at the bricks? Because I was sitting here
01:11:17
thinking. I was like, is that her bag?
01:11:19
I think she stole somebody's bag.
01:11:23
But then oh, oh, oh. Did she take it off the boat?
01:11:29
She did take it off the boat when she was trying to rescue
01:11:31
Maggie and and Herschel right when the attack started.
01:11:37
Right? But guess who was looking for a
01:11:41
gun when they got onto the island?
01:11:44
The The virus, the. Virus, yeah.
01:11:46
I wonder if that's her bag, 'cause I don't think it was
01:11:50
Jenny's, no. It's it's Jenny's bag, but her
01:11:54
gun, because when she saw the bag, Jenny took the bag.
01:11:57
Not Novias she would've saw. She's like, oh, my bag.
01:12:00
No, she took the gun. Oh.
01:12:02
OK OK, so that's why she had gun out for her again.
01:12:08
New Babylon people are stupid. How it?
01:12:10
Was it was during the the whole bombing when people was
01:12:14
distracted and going 'cause remember she had reached out and
01:12:16
was like oh shit, my gun gone. Yeah, but see Jenny?
01:12:21
I don't recall her putting anything in that bag.
01:12:24
Oh, wait, wait, wait. Yes I do.
01:12:28
I think I do. When they were still on the
01:12:33
other side of the shore, Jenny was packing her bag and this was
01:12:40
after Maggie. I think Maggie went to go.
01:12:45
Either Maggie went to go look to see what the smoke was about, or
01:12:49
this was right around the time that they were getting arrested.
01:12:53
I think I remember Jenny looking down and seeing something and
01:12:56
putting in her back. I'm gonna have to go back and
01:12:58
look now 'cause I'm trying to figure out when the hell did she
01:13:01
get the gun? And how would she have gotten it
01:13:04
off of Novias? Cause Novias don't seem like the
01:13:06
type that's just gonna be sitting there with her gun
01:13:09
loose. My gun.
01:13:10
Yeah, right. Because she always so itchy for
01:13:13
a fight or itching to be up in somebody's face.
01:13:16
So I can't see Jenny just sneaking up and and taking it
01:13:20
so. She she lost it.
01:13:22
We know she lost it 'cause remember, she was she.
01:13:26
Was yeah, that's what I'm trying.
01:13:28
When did, when did Jenny find it 'cause we don't know she has it
01:13:32
until after that. So, OK, OK, alright.
01:13:44
So Negan comes out of the park, he goes back to the Croat and he
01:13:51
tells them he was like, yeah, I can't remember the guy's name.
01:13:54
Stupid. He was like, yeah, there was,
01:13:56
there was a little bit of an accident.
01:13:58
We found ourselves in a bit of a thorny situation.
01:14:02
And then the Croat looks down and notices Negan has blood on
01:14:06
his hands. Now Thomas Sense would say Negan
01:14:12
has something to do with this death, right?
01:14:17
But I think if he would have questioned it, Megan could also
01:14:21
say, well, we were fighting for our lives in there.
01:14:24
I barely got away and that's why I have the blood on my hands.
01:14:27
And he was trying to save them. Could have been any anything,
01:14:31
right? And he did say thorns, like he,
01:14:33
he meant that literally. So that could be.
01:14:37
But the Croat doesn't say anything.
01:14:41
He just gives Megan a handkerchief.
01:14:43
And he was like accidents happen.
01:14:45
And I think he did that because he's like some of the old Negan
01:14:49
is starting to come back. And I wonder if he did that on
01:14:52
purpose, sent that guy into the park with *** on purpose because
01:14:57
you all you could already feel the vibes between those 2.
01:14:59
They did not like you just. Absolutely.
01:15:03
Not and. The Crow had know how *** feels
01:15:06
about fucking with kids. So yeah, ain't that why he got
01:15:12
exiled? Yeah, I think that's why he got
01:15:15
I I think he did that on purpose.
01:15:18
And then when Negan was the one who came out, it was like, yeah,
01:15:21
you know, we found ourselves into this situation.
01:15:24
It was an accident. But.
01:15:25
But you were right. If the New Babylonians are in
01:15:28
there, they're probably dead because of the big guy like him
01:15:31
could be taken down. Yeah, right.
01:15:33
Just looking at him like, alright, motherfucker, I see
01:15:36
you. But I think that's that's what
01:15:38
he wanted. But the crow had a suspicion of
01:15:41
everything that Negan does. He always side ironing, you
01:15:44
know, trying to see what he see. But he.
01:15:47
Because he's trying to get the old Megan back.
01:15:51
But that ain't gonna happen. We know that.
01:15:53
Well, you know what? As much as he may want it to
01:15:59
Megan. Megan, I am.
01:16:01
Megan Smith is gone now. You just got Megan Smith.
01:16:06
Yeah. 'Cause that whole I am Megan,
01:16:09
kneel and say I am me. But you're not.
01:16:13
And I think that was actually from whoever it was that he
01:16:19
defeated before he became, you know, because he basically
01:16:23
overthrew whoever was in charge before.
01:16:26
So I think that was something that was a theme there.
01:16:29
And he just, you know, once he beat the other person, he, he
01:16:33
kind of took it over because he was like, oh, OK, this is a way
01:16:37
to keep them compliant. Yeah.
01:16:39
Then I'll do that. I'll, you know, I'll stay safe
01:16:42
because what did he say? The reason why he, the reason
01:16:45
why he did that in the 1st place, I think was because the
01:16:48
people at the sanctuary was suffering.
01:16:51
And so he did it to try to knock the other person out of charge,
01:16:55
kill him so that the people would be safe.
01:17:00
And again, from his point of view, that's what he was doing.
01:17:03
He was keeping them safe. Now, he took a couple of
01:17:06
liberties with that and he let that whole power trip kind of go
01:17:12
to his head a little bit, which ended up biting him in the ass
01:17:15
later. But yeah, I, I don't know why
01:17:21
the Croat would want him back. Because just like he mentioned
01:17:24
in this episode, he was like when I was exiled from the
01:17:27
sanctuary. You trying to bring back the
01:17:29
same man, that exile that exiled you, you trying to bring that
01:17:33
person back? Why?
01:17:36
He want to get exiled again. It it must be something because
01:17:41
if I was the Croat and Megan gets back in charge I would be
01:17:49
worried especially with the way Megan has noticed.
01:17:53
Oh yeah and the Dom treats you. She treats you like like shit.
01:17:57
Oh no the Dom and I we are partners.
01:17:59
Nah bro not from where we looking but why she?
01:18:04
Always said that you do the grant work right but you're
01:18:07
supposed to be you're supposed to be the smartest person you're
01:18:09
the one who who figured out the whole methane thing like you Why
01:18:14
why is you outside well, I don't want to protect I would want to
01:18:19
protect the person who knows this operation because if that's
01:18:24
the case just. Kidnap his ass kid kid.
01:18:30
You know such, you know shit. And say, hey, that whole setup
01:18:34
you did over there, do that over there.
01:18:38
But again, the New Babylonians, I don't think they really know
01:18:41
what they are looking for. Because they dumb as hell.
01:18:46
Because there's we have surmised based on the.
01:18:48
We we, no, we we surmised this in the last episode Yeah, we
01:18:52
yeah, when when y'all decided y'all want to take a fucking
01:18:54
ferry across the dark ass river with the lights on like they
01:18:59
weren't going to expect you. So we surmised that last
01:19:01
episode, but you got people spying telling you what's going
01:19:10
on. You got people spying telling
01:19:14
you about the methane. Did the people who told New
01:19:17
Babylonians, the New Babylonians about the methane, did y'all
01:19:21
tell them about the the set up in the basement of the hotel?
01:19:26
Did y'all tell them that there were literally tanks and tanks
01:19:30
and tanks and and tubing and pipes and glass and all this
01:19:35
other stuff like this is not something y'all know. 50 people
01:19:41
injured people, tired people are going to just up and carry out
01:19:46
of Manhattan. And even if they were able to
01:19:48
get to the methane. How you going to get it back and
01:19:52
your boat blew up? How you going to get it back?
01:19:56
Y'all don't have a boat? I and I'm pretty sure the Croat
01:20:02
probably has one stashed around the city somewhere.
01:20:05
But here's the thing. First y'all got to drain the
01:20:10
tanks, then y'all got to take apart the tanks, Then y'all?
01:20:16
No. Excuse me.
01:20:17
Excuse me. I'm sorry.
01:20:18
Let me go back. First you got to take the
01:20:21
walkers out of the tanks. That might be in the tanks.
01:20:26
Then you got to drain the tanks. Then you got to take apart the
01:20:29
tanks. Then you got to figure out how
01:20:31
you're going to move the tanks, because those things are not
01:20:34
like. Hell no, I'm thinking.
01:20:37
So you got to figure out who's going to move the tanks, who's
01:20:41
going to be on lookout while y'all are moving the tanks and
01:20:45
all those lookouts, are y'all gonna trust them enough to give
01:20:47
them guns? Because if it's any, because if
01:20:50
it's Maggie or any of her people that are there because, or not
01:20:53
even her people, the other people that they've conscripted
01:20:56
that are not New Babylonians, any of them motherfuckers might
01:21:00
run. Yeah, so you gotta trust the
01:21:03
people who are gonna watch you carry these heavy ass tanks out
01:21:07
of the hotel. And then once you're out, now
01:21:10
you gotta get away from the Boraxi and you got to get away
01:21:14
from the walkers. And you can't run with those
01:21:16
tanks. If walkers are coming after you.
01:21:19
Then you got to figure out where the hell to go.
01:21:21
You got to figure out how to get.
01:21:23
They did not think this through. Oh well.
01:21:27
Or you can just kidnap the Croat and make him tell you how to do
01:21:30
shit. Stealing one person is way
01:21:35
better than trying to steal a setup.
01:21:37
And I don't know why we didn't think about this when we were
01:21:39
talking about this. The 1st 2 episodes, That's all
01:21:42
you gotta do. Steal the Croat.
01:21:45
Yeah, like have him. Teach you.
01:21:51
But I said that in the beginning.
01:21:53
I said that in the beginning when they pulled up.
01:21:57
Why y'all just and why y'all always gotta take some shit?
01:22:00
Just answer, can you? Can you teach us 'cause that'll
01:22:04
get you way further than trying to take over some shit.
01:22:07
You already lost half your people.
01:22:11
Well, you could have just said. Hey, what?
01:22:14
Just wondering, right? And then at that point if he
01:22:17
said no, then kidnap him but you, he might have been like
01:22:21
shit, if you get your method, you'll leave my method.
01:22:23
Let me show you how to do it. They're not looking at the
01:22:26
grander picture. Y'all just thinking, y'all just
01:22:29
gonna go take some shit 'cause you got a couple guns but you
01:22:32
don't know what they have. If they smart enough to make
01:22:35
methane, if they know how to make Walker bombs and they they
01:22:40
know how to do all that, leave them alone.
01:22:46
Ask nicely. Do you think you'd be able to
01:22:48
help us with our setup for methane?
01:22:51
And if they say no, then you go back and kidnap to grow ahead.
01:22:54
But at least ask first. Like, I don't think in this, in
01:23:00
this world, they have courtesy cause a courtesy gives you any a
01:23:06
courtesy would be like, you know, it, it might shock some
01:23:10
people 'cause they be like, oh, you're not just gonna try to
01:23:12
take it. Oh, you're gonna oh, oh it.
01:23:15
Sure, I think it depends on the people, because that's true.
01:23:19
That and not even the Alexandrians because they kept
01:23:22
to themselves. Kingdom Hilltop, they had
01:23:26
agreements with each other, even though Greg Gregy Gregory wasn't
01:23:30
asked about it, but still they did have trading agreements.
01:23:34
And then once Rick and them took over Alexandria, they had
01:23:37
trading agreements with them. And then there was what's a
01:23:41
fourth community? Or they tried it with Oceanside,
01:23:45
you know, so it's it's like it can be done.
01:23:50
But as I explained in last episode, human nature, what we
01:23:56
see, most people are going to be ugly and try to take first.
01:23:59
And it's not just in The Walking Dead, we see it in any type of
01:24:03
dystopian future. There's always those types of
01:24:08
groups or factions. They're, they're always looking
01:24:11
to oppress somebody. Like when the world comes to an
01:24:14
end and you start building new societies, what's the first
01:24:17
thing you try to do? Oppress other people, Separate
01:24:20
people into two different groups and, and, you know, 'cause
01:24:23
segregation and distrust. And yeah, like, like you said,
01:24:29
they could have just kidnapped the Croat.
01:24:31
Matter of fact, that's a great idea.
01:24:33
That's a great idea. Eat that for when the the
01:24:38
apocalypse happens. Just just steal the smart
01:24:41
person. And they probably would have to
01:24:46
steal him because I don't think he would be the type to go
01:24:49
willingly because the methane makes you the methane.
01:24:54
Being able to make the methane, if he were to go out into the
01:25:00
rest of the world or the rest of the country, that would make him
01:25:05
one, a very popular person, but also a very dangerous person.
01:25:09
But you but you also see the Dumber don't give a fuck 'cause
01:25:12
she just let him go run around so the fuck about him.
01:25:17
But you know what? Because he has the barazi.
01:25:19
And for whatever reason, the Barazi, probably because of the
01:25:22
level of comfort that they have, because of the methane, they are
01:25:27
the ones protecting him. So maybe that's why, because I
01:25:32
can tell you if you if you just going to keep me in the same
01:25:35
building and say I can't do anything, I can't go anywhere
01:25:38
because you're scared something's going to happen to
01:25:40
me and then to your methane. I wouldn't make any more
01:25:42
methane. I would be like, oh let me get
01:25:44
in this elevator and just jump out the building because if you
01:25:47
gonna hold me prisoner anyway in a fucking zombie apocalypse,
01:25:50
what point is there? Yeah, you're right, You're
01:25:55
right. So you gotta give him a little
01:25:57
freedom, make him feel a little important.
01:26:00
And, and here's the thing, he she probably made him feel very
01:26:05
important up until Negan got there, because he talked Negan
01:26:09
up so much that she built this whole elaborate plan like, oh,
01:26:15
we need to get him out of all these people.
01:26:20
That's the one. And it just all happened because
01:26:22
the Croat just happened to wash up on my Manhattan trying to
01:26:26
roll his ass back to Croatia. Really.
01:26:28
You thought that was gonna work? But no, he said the boat
01:26:36
crashed. I was gonna say, well, he that
01:26:38
means he does have a boat somewhere.
01:26:39
But no, he said the boat crashed.
01:26:41
So I I don't know. I just the New Babylonians are
01:26:47
dumb. I don't like them.
01:26:49
I told you I was. I told you I was gonna be a
01:26:50
running mantra for these episodes.
01:26:53
They are. They are dumb because now you're
01:26:56
trying to you're trying to take the methane, which we have just
01:26:59
established. I don't know how the hell y'all
01:27:01
planning on doing that. But then not only that, but here
01:27:04
you go. You about to try and force a
01:27:05
whole another group of people who have been living in the wild
01:27:08
for the last 20 years. You're about to try to force
01:27:11
them to become a part of your collective.
01:27:15
And I'm like, I don't know if this is what you want because
01:27:18
yeah, y'all got they don't want no parts.
01:27:21
I don't think so, because something tells me these people
01:27:24
know how to survive. They've been doing it all the
01:27:27
time for you. Grace their doorstep.
01:27:30
So, so I don't know, maybe the New Babylonians are the group
01:27:33
that's going to end up dead. That would not bother me as
01:27:36
much. This new group, they just
01:27:40
sitting there minding their business, bake, baking 20 year
01:27:44
old cookies that were in the cafe.
01:27:48
So yeah, I just leave them alone, but I'm Novias isn't
01:27:53
gonna do that. They gonna do that.
01:27:55
They gonna do it. So like you said, I have a
01:27:58
feeling we're gonna see them, probably one more episode and
01:28:02
then that's gonna be it. Yeah, that's, that's, that's my
01:28:06
thought. They they, they they gonna pull
01:28:08
through one MO, one MO, one MO after that.
01:28:14
Oh, they were such a nice people.
01:28:19
Right. 'Cause they don't give us, they
01:28:23
never give us too much information about any groups.
01:28:27
This one they give me information a little bit.
01:28:31
Well, yeah, 'cause they did with that group from the last season.
01:28:35
2 What? What were they called the the
01:28:38
the tribesmen or something? They're here today, going
01:28:42
tomorrow, 'cause who remembers? Oh goodness, they.
01:28:49
Wiped them out so quick and hell that even goes with the one who
01:28:53
the ones who live. They knocked them out so God
01:28:56
damn quick. Oh, we're not gonna talk about.
01:29:00
I mean if you is not a main character your your time is
01:29:02
short here. We're not gonna talk about that
01:29:06
'cause I'm still mad about Nat's death.
01:29:08
He could have. Been yeah, they they could have
01:29:10
let. They could, they could, They
01:29:11
could have. They could just let.
01:29:12
Hear my boy. Anyway, what else we need to
01:29:15
talk about for this episode? I think we, I think we pretty
01:29:19
much covered it all, everything. But the main thing is the New
01:29:22
Babylonians are stupid. They're they're dumb.
01:29:24
They're dumb as fuck. Yeah, yeah.
01:29:32
You ain't lied, no lies detected.
01:29:36
So I, I'm, I'm curious to see how much more of the Dhamma and
01:29:41
Herschel's background we're going to see and to see kind of
01:29:46
where that culminate. Like I wanna know, does she
01:29:48
actually have control over him? Or is this just angry teenager
01:29:55
latching on to what nice old lady says?
01:30:01
And then we also have to figure out if she brainwashed him, why
01:30:03
she take his toe. That I wanna know.
01:30:09
I do wanna know that if. She brainwashed him.
01:30:11
Why take the toe? Like, did you really need to
01:30:14
have a souvenir that much? Oh, something to remember.
01:30:18
Something to remember you by, bitch.
01:30:19
He could have drew your pose a picture.
01:30:21
Bad you don't want any pictures you want my goddamn tongue Yeah
01:30:28
she she he didn't need to tell that's that's that's like a
01:30:33
marvel reference Rocket always want the leg or the eye.
01:30:36
You will you want something to me have no need for.
01:30:41
Right. OK, so Diamond Herschel, I wanna
01:30:45
see where that goes at. At at some point, we we know
01:30:51
Negan and Maggie have to come face to face.
01:30:53
So again, it's gonna be interesting to see how that goes
01:30:57
because I don't think, I don't think Negan is expecting Maggie
01:31:02
to be there. But if Herschel is there, you
01:31:05
gotta think that he he he. Either he knows Maggie is there
01:31:10
or he knows Maggie is coming. That woman is not letting her
01:31:16
show out of her sight too fucking far.
01:31:19
She's just not well. If she's not paying attention to
01:31:23
him, she could easily do so because she too busy focusing on
01:31:28
other shit that she don't need to be focusing on.
01:31:32
I mean, you're right, but the same.
01:31:37
I mean, we'll, we'll see. We.
01:31:39
Gonna we gonna see so. Let's see, I think what we're on
01:31:46
episode 3. We have five more episodes,
01:31:48
which like I said, I didn't realize that they added two
01:31:52
episodes to this season because we only got 6 episodes last
01:31:55
season. So we got 8 episodes this
01:31:57
season, which is cool because usually the, the shows are
01:32:01
giving us like they'll start out with 10 episodes and then they
01:32:04
drop down to 8, then they drop down to seven.
01:32:06
So I'm, I like that we've got more.
01:32:09
As of right now, there is no renewal news for, for season 3.
01:32:19
I, I don't know how that's gonna go.
01:32:24
We know Daryl Dixon is already, they're filming season 4
01:32:27
already. So but but I think that show
01:32:30
also does a little bit better in the ratings than than Dead City
01:32:33
does. But it's Negan and Maggie.
01:32:36
Something tells me that they probably will get renewed just
01:32:40
because it's those two characters, because because even
01:32:43
though I will say, even though Maggie is getting on my nerves,
01:32:47
I do still want to see some kind of not even a it doesn't have to
01:32:52
be a resolution between her and Negan.
01:32:55
I just want them to come to an understanding.
01:32:58
You know what I'm saying? OK, I'm not trying to, I'm
01:33:01
trying not to be the person that you Remember Me to be.
01:33:04
Let me learn and grow and you know, whatever.
01:33:12
And then I need you to stop focusing so much on him.
01:33:16
Let this man be. Let this man grow.
01:33:19
Let this man mature. Let this man do what he's going
01:33:22
to do. Focus on your God damn kid cause
01:33:27
please you are in trouble right now.
01:33:29
Please. Focus on that little boy.
01:33:33
Because somebody else has shown an interest in him that you
01:33:37
never have. And not in a good way.
01:33:40
Not in a good way. What I mean it, it all depends
01:33:45
because we don't know if she's brainwashing him or teaching him
01:33:50
to do anything bad. She's literally telling him
01:33:53
stuff that he already knows and that he probably can't
01:33:56
articulate. But she's like, OK, we just want
01:34:00
to make the city great. You see the city the way it is.
01:34:03
So just show, just show me what your vision is.
01:34:08
I can't say for sure right now that that's there's any evil
01:34:10
intent in it unless she's, you know, Well, then again, this is
01:34:15
flashback. So I was going to say, yeah, she
01:34:16
was using him as a way to get to Megan.
01:34:20
But I mean, she has Megan now. So I want to, again, I want to
01:34:24
see kind of how deep that bond goes and what exactly the
01:34:29
relationship is with him and her.
01:34:31
We already know that he signaled to let them know they were
01:34:34
coming. So OK.
01:34:39
Alright. Hershel, you got any final
01:34:40
thoughts on this episode? Kidnapped the Croat.
01:34:49
And on that note, that is it for our show.
01:34:51
You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com.
01:34:55
We are on social media on all the social media at Phantom
01:34:57
Hybrid. You can chat with us on our
01:34:59
Discord channel. You can watch our videos on our
01:35:01
YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major
01:35:04
podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening.
01:35:06
We hope you join the conversation next time.