#outlander William uncovers more questions than answers as he inquires about Ben's death. Frank's words begin to take shape as Jamie sees more evidence that an impending war is coming to the backcountry. Life and death bring joy and pain to the Ridge.
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What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode
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of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here
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with Michelle and Dana, and we are discussing Outlander Season
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8 Episode 2. This is our 400th episode.
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Well, that is such a great milestone.
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Yes, yeah. Because a lot of podcasts don't
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get to this point. So yeah, we're here.
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We're talking about Outlander. And I don't know, this might be
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a short episode cause Michelle said she ain't got too much to
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say. No, I'm sorry.
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And I, I, I, I was a little bit, I wouldn't upset, but I was
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like, OK, we don't have much to go.
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So I need them to be all filled. But Hanukkah did say if you're a
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book reader, you would love this episode.
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I, I think it, I think this episode was really good for the
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book readers because there's a lot of things that happened in
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this episode that that happened in the book.
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Like I knew from the intro when I saw the bear, I said, oh, OK,
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I know what's about to happen in this episode because Amy's death
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is kind of big in in the book. You know, she's not, she's not a
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major, major character in the books.
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But you know, in the books, of course, they discuss a lot more
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about the Ridge life and the the characters because of course you
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have more room to do that. Whereas, you know, they're
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they're coming down onto the last few episodes.
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So they don't really have a chance to kind of expand.
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But for the show, Amy is the widower, or was the widower that
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Rodger was helping out back in the day.
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And Brianna was like, hey, you might not.
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Oh, she is. Yeah, that's her.
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OK, All right. Yeah, that makes more sense
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because I was like, I don't remember this lady.
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Me neither. I'm like OK.
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Yeah, she's the. Roger.
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Was helping out a lot when when she first told him she was
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pregnant with Mandy. So you know, as we saw in the
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last episode, she's now married to Evan Lindsay, who was one of
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the guys that we've seen regularly on the Ridge.
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And then of course, you know what happens to her in this
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episode. It it's a big thing and then we
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get a lot of other big things. We get an introduction to Ben
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Williams cousin and then we kind of followed that that rabbit
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hole a little bit and you know, you get some stuff with the
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Cunningham. So I think it was pulling a lot
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of things from the book. I think all of those things are
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going to be major in this season, especially because Jamie
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is thinking about what Frank is saying in his book about what's
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going to happen in the back country.
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And I think what they were doing were pulling elements that'll
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kind of lend to that storyline. But of course, if you're not
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familiar with most of those characters, you are probably
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looking at it like, who the hell is this?
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And why do we care that she got, you know, mauled by a bear or
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that sort of thing? Not that, you know, we just kind
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of throw those characters away. But I can see how it's like,
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yeah, we only have nine more episodes.
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We need to get, you know, we need to wrap this story up
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correct? 'Cause I was like.
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I felt bad 'cause I clearly, they clearly knew her, even if I
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didn't remember her, they had a relationship with her.
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So I felt bad that she died. It was really messed up man it.
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Was, I mean, I did too. And then I was like, OK, but
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now, you know, it makes, you know, a little bit more sense.
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Yeah, but I still was like, OK, can we move on?
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I'm sorry. You don't have much time.
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Very high, very high. Good.
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Right. I'm sorry.
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Yeah, I mean, so so we're up let's go yeah.
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And as we can see that that that just wasn't happening cause no.
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And I, I think I like the way that they, they kind of made her
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look in this one because, you know, again, even with Evan,
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he's like, but Missus Fraser, you, you fix anything like and
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Claire, you know, she is known to be kind of a miracle healer
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around the Ridge. So when you.
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Look at her. Face and and you see OK there's
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nothing she can do because because of the way she was
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gouging her shoulder cut a major artery so there there isn't
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anything you can do but yeah, I I think that's really what what
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it was and then also this was Miss Claire Fraser herself
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Katrina Bao's first time directing an episode.
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So she was she was the director of this episode.
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Yep and as we saw she's doing double duty because Claire is in
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this episode a lot too. So yeah, I think it was more of
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AI don't want to call it a filler episode but I think all
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of these different people will have different parts to play
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probably towards the later season.
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You know, we got to see Henry and Mercy get married in this
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one, which I thought was really sweet because I don't remember
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if they actually got married in the book.
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I. Think they have because right
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now her books only go up to book 9, which is mostly where this
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season is pulling from. But I don't recall them actually
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getting married. But I've only read the book
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once. I'm, I'm going to be doing a
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reread within the next couple of months to prepare for Dragon Con
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because I know we're going to be discussing it.
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But yeah, so you get different little things.
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And then of course, you have William going down the rabbit
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hole of trying to figure out what happened to Ben.
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And so I think all of those things are just, you know,
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they're just pulling on threads and they're about to start
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sewing that tapestry of what the 9th season is going to look, I
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mean, what the 8th season is going to look like.
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So, yeah. Was there anything in particular
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you liked, Michelle? Yes, of course.
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OK. Ian had a baby.
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I mean, that's the most important thing here.
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Yeah. However, I was like, dude, don't
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forget you also have another one.
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But I know he didn't really round you and you wasn't there
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when he was born. But yeah, you have a.
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Baby and I do like that they brought Swift as the lizards up
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in the conversation that he had with Jamie.
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Yeah. So yeah.
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I I do what else happened? Yeah, I was like I said, oh,
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Michelle's going to be so happy. You know, even though, like, I
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feel like they've been kind of showing us that Ian is is due
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for his happiness and he's getting the happiness he
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deserves, but there's still always that little piece of is
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it going to happen because of what happened in this past?
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I was like, please just let this be OK.
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Even though I know in the books it's OK.
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But you, again, this is the show.
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They're veering from the books because we, you know, we had to
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be OK 'cause they don't want people to come in and hunt them
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down. Yeah, no, because they were
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going to be OK. This episode was actually this
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episode episode was quite sad compared to the other ones.
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They had a lot of different things going on.
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So I was like, yes, let us get some joy.
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Yeah, and you and then. I mean, I had three things.
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Ian had the baby. Them contemplating what Frank
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knew or didn't know and what he wrote in the book.
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It's always amazing to me, but I like how he broke it down for
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the audience and Claire. OK, yeah, I can leave Frank
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alone a little bit, but yeah, he did the things he did, you know
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what I'm saying? But you know, of course he's
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going to tell you not to look for Jamie, of course, because
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y'all would not be able to move forward, which I didn't move
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forward 'cause you could move forward.
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But then he became obsessed with the man.
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Only the. Yeah, to find out what ends up
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happening. One, what has Claire caught up?
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That's another reason why he looked for Jamie.
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What has this woman caught up? Yeah.
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She can't let this man go. Yeah.
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And then two, what happens to us?
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Yeah. Will she ever go back to him and
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be with him? And Even so.
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Yes, that was the reason. So I love that he brought it up,
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but it's just funny how he just. Boy, that was not the book to
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give your dad. No, especially since they didn't
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look at it first. At least look at it so.
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You should have gave him green eggs and ham.
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Yeah, he was a historian. He clearly put history in there.
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So it's not a fake book, like, you know what I'm saying?
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It's not a a a a fiction. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So that wasn't Lord of the the The Lord of the Rings books was
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perfect, but not. Yeah.
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Not this book. As far as as Brianna giving him
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that book, especially without reading it, I think she would
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have. I think at that point when she
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sees that book, OK, especially now knowing what you know about
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your parents history, I think it would have been interesting to
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her to say, OK, well, you know, Daddy didn't want Mama to go
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look for die or whatever, but he wrote a book specifically about
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the Scottish in North Carolina. And guess where my parents are
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in North Carolina. So maybe she thought that there
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was some there was some information in there that would
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help him. I don't think, I don't know.
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I think I'm, I'm to the point now where I feel like in
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Brianna's mind, her parents are kind of, I don't want to say
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immortal, but I mean, we, we talk about this all the time,
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how Jamie Fraser has 9 lives. Like he's gone through at least
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seven of them at this point. But I don't think she looks at
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it that way. She's just like, OK, he has gone
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through so much. I don't think she's looking at
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it like, oh, this could be what kills him.
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She's just like, oh, Frank wrote something about the Scottish
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people and the Scottish culture in the North Carolinas.
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Maybe this is prominent about Jamie, you know, and maybe even
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in her own mind, she's thinking, oh, maybe This is why daddy
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didn't want her to come back because he sees Claire in there,
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you know, not knowing how she got there when she got there.
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But obviously, I think a lot of people who've read the books,
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they think that in looking for Jamie or looking for Claire, as
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Jamie has suggested, that he found mentions of Brianna back
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there. And that's why he taught her all
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of the stuff that she knows. That's why she's so good with
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what she does in The Ridge, because Frank taught her.
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Because we think that Frank saw mention of her in the past.
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But you know, even with all of that, I don't think there's ever
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been a hint, even in the books that Frank found any mention of
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Claire, which is really interesting because I know they
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kind of, they showed it to us in the show last summer with him
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saying, you know, them in the painting or whatever.
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But I don't think it's ever mentioned or ever even hinted
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that. OK, yeah, Frank saw Claire in
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the past and that's why he's like that.
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I mean, it could be one of the reasons why he acted the way he
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did, but I don't know at at this point.
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I think we're still going to have to wait for Miss Gabadon to
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write her what Frank new book, which she claims she is still
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doing. I'm I need you to I'm gonna need
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you to bring. Come on with that.
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Yeah. OK.
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Because I think that will help. I think that'll help change a
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lot of people's minds about Frank.
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I don't think. I don't think show people are as
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hard on Frank as book Frank is as they are on book Frank
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because book Frank, like I said, it was different.
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You know, the whole thing with him and Claire, like Claire
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really tried and he really tried, but he couldn't.
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He couldn't let go of it. And then when they decided to
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start living their separate lives, he was like I said, he
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was a bit of a Dick about it. It wasn't just the one person.
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It wasn't just Sandy that he was messing around with.
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He was messing around with different women and like they
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were calling the house going off on Claire.
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Like you need to let him go when he wants to be like.
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It was disrespectful to a whole different level, and I think
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that's why people give book Frank a little bit more of a
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hard time. That mean that tells me that
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Frank was a good catch and he wasn't going nowhere like that
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tells me that Frank see, I got to tell me some more stuff that
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makes him I'm I'm on Frank's side.
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That just shows me that Frank was a great catch.
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These women love Frank. They tried to get him from his
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wife, but he will not leave Claire.
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They tried to call his home, convince her that that they're
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in love, but Frank was not going to leave.
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And he waited till Brianna was pretty much grown before he
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finally was like, yeah, he wasn't.
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He wasn't going to. Yeah, but the other thing is
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Frank tried, I mean, Claire tried to let him go.
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She was like, OK, let's just go ahead and get divorced.
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Let's stop with this. And he was like, no, because
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you're not going to take Brianna from me.
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I would never do that to you. She's like, let's just we, we
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can, we can end this. We can this can be salvage in
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that way, but. I guess when you think about the
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fact that your wife has this crazy traveling ability that
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your daughter also apparently has 'cause she survived going
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through the stones and you and you see this as real, like these
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people are existing in history. And you're like, what if she
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does finally get to the point where she's like, Nah, I'm out,
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you know. And so I think also with Frank,
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him loving the idea that she had a child, even if it wasn't his,
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he he clearly wanted kids or whatever.
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But I think the other thing is he had one up on Jamie because
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he was raising his his daughter. Yeah.
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Feel like to a certain degree like he he a lot was driving
00:14:39
Frank and he had a lot. I mean the man had a lot.
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I mean your wife disappear, go off and then she come back
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pregnant and she talking about this Yang Yang about being in
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some stones and and being in Scotland Highlands in the 1700
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and then, you know, then she like, oh, so you going to raise
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this baby or what? It's just like I kind of get why
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he was in the asshole, you know, But I also feel like, like you
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said, I never thought about that, that you're right.
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I think you're right. He did prepare Brianna because
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she she did come back doing some no Nos but she don't know
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nothing about time travel apparently.
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I just, and I mean, I understand.
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I on the one hand I can understand because you are in a
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time where there's nothing familiar, nothing convenient,
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nothing. You know I get 1 1/2 some small
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creature comfort. Yeah.
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But also you're coming back to a time where they were they're
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still like witch hunting. They are still like, oh, you're
00:15:51
different. You I mean, even the
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conversation Fanny had with Claire about Jamie and you know,
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she was like Jamie believed in certain things and people used
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to say that she was dark and so small minded in this time, you
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know, so it's just. But it's also that scene.
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That's one of the scenes I like the most.
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This episode was with Miss Cunningham and Claire and just
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kind of seeing what the funeral ritual was back then and just
00:16:20
like they just had their way and this is the proper way.
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And I I like that because it shows that Claire, which I mean,
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it always showed that she was very adapt, like she adapts to
00:16:31
everything. But like it was kind of amazing
00:16:32
to me because it was just like, well, girl, you better get your
00:16:35
deaf shroud people dying around here.
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Like this is what happens. I'm lucky to be alive.
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Of course I have. One like she was like some days
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I think I need to sleep. Like, I really love that scene
00:16:49
of them bonding, 'cause I remember you told me she was
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going to be up and down, wishy washy.
00:16:54
And that scene was so good. And I was just like the things
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that Claire has had to do to be with this man that she loves.
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It's just crazy to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I don't know if I would have made it.
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I don't think I have that kind of patience.
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Me, me too. I, I don't.
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So yeah, I just OK, Jamie, I, I. Hear me, Can you hear the
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buzzing? Come to this phone.
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Can you hear this buzzing? Tell me, 'cause we can't stay
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here, baby. No.
00:17:31
Not at. All.
00:17:32
Not at all. But OK, so let's talk about a
00:17:38
few things. Oh my and my last name.
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Oh yeah, yeah, 3 so my last thing is it was the IT was the
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EI just love it. You just wake her up and be like
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I need you. Yes, honey, Yeah, I'm, I'm with
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you and. Let's just talk about 40
00:17:59
something year old Claire being ready, ready and willing and
00:18:02
able because man, I'm I'm in perimenopause and I'm sorry you
00:18:05
have to. Work.
00:18:07
Claire's in her 60s at this point.
00:18:08
Well, 60s, yes. Well, off with the time period,
00:18:12
I think, Claire. 'S in her Claire's in her 60s at
00:18:15
this point. Right home, girl.
00:18:17
Saying you are absolutely correct.
00:18:19
So. And we get some loose.
00:18:23
Listen, guess what are we doing? But I thought it, it was so
00:18:28
funny to me because, you know, immediately before all of that,
00:18:32
he's reading the book. And Frank is in his ear.
00:18:36
You know, he hears Frank's voice.
00:18:38
Yeah. You're going to die.
00:18:39
Yeah, man, who's who's going to hold her there?
00:18:42
And I was like, it ain't going to be you.
00:18:43
Frank's like. This OK, of course.
00:18:46
I know this is not really Frank, talking to him is just his
00:18:50
conscience, but but Jamie was like, oh, you want to talk to
00:18:54
me? And you want to talk to me about
00:18:55
who ain't going to be holding her.
00:18:56
OK, I got you, Frank. Hey, baby, I need you.
00:18:59
I was like if that wasn't the most petty shit, but it was so
00:19:05
funny. But he did, but not even that he
00:19:08
was like it's bothering him, but he he can't let it bother him
00:19:12
because there's plenty of times they said he was dead.
00:19:15
Remember in the house fire. So just kind of just let it go.
00:19:19
But I just love it because all he said was I need you.
00:19:23
I need. You OK, Right.
00:19:26
She was asleep when she lied to. That booted up.
00:19:33
I said I like. This.
00:19:34
But you know what I don't want? And so this is they gone.
00:19:38
They gone. Lionel Brown us with Frank's
00:19:40
voice. And I don't want that.
00:19:43
I hope he does not continue with this voice in his head.
00:19:49
I don't know, but it at least it's not I, I, I guess for me, I
00:19:55
don't mind it as much because I feel like even though the story
00:20:00
has always been about Jamie and Claire, I do think that Frank is
00:20:06
a very integral part of that relationship, whether for good
00:20:10
or for bad, you know, and, and even going back and looking at
00:20:14
older clips from older series, older seasons.
00:20:19
Most specifically, you know, before the episode last week, I
00:20:23
went back and started watching some of the some of the clips
00:20:26
from the Faith episode. And there was one conversation
00:20:29
where they were having what she was telling Jamie about Faith's
00:20:32
birth and getting to hold her and all this other stuff.
00:20:36
And where she talked about how much she, she did hate him, but
00:20:39
she was like, but it was my fault too.
00:20:41
She was like, I was the one who put Frank above our family.
00:20:45
And, you know, all this other stuff.
00:20:46
He was like, well, Frank was your family.
00:20:48
She was like, yeah, but I shouldn't chosen.
00:20:50
I, you know, whatever. But I thought about, I said the
00:20:52
the crazy thing about all that is she kind of sort of had no
00:20:57
choice because if it wasn't for Frank existing and her being
00:21:02
married to Frank, she would have never come back to, you know, to
00:21:05
the, to the past in the first place, because she would have
00:21:08
had no reason to be in the Highlands.
00:21:10
She would have had no, you know, it's just it's it's very again,
00:21:14
Frank is a very integral part of that relationship.
00:21:18
I don't know how it's kind of like that whole witch came
00:21:20
first, the chicken or the egg. I don't think we'll ever know
00:21:23
because there's there has to be a reason why she and Jamie found
00:21:29
their way to each other over time and space.
00:21:32
You know what I'm saying? So.
00:21:34
I do wonder though, because if that's the thing where they have
00:21:37
that they're supposed to be together no matter what is like
00:21:40
after the war, she went some other place, America or
00:21:43
somewhere else and found some other stones in the Caribbean on
00:21:46
vacation, found the stones and then ended up back like in the
00:21:50
past. And then they meet up some other
00:21:52
different kind of way. Like is that, you know, like I
00:21:55
feel like if they're faded, it wouldn't happen period, I think,
00:21:59
but it would be so. Weird with all of that because
00:22:02
because if you think about all those times, even them going to
00:22:06
other stones, their relationship has always been the catalyst for
00:22:12
getting them to those stones. If you think about it, the whole
00:22:15
reason why Ian was kidnapped was because he was going for the
00:22:19
chest. The only reason why Jamie knew
00:22:21
about the chest was because he thought Claire was the one who
00:22:24
was in Silky Island. So if he had never met Claire,
00:22:28
would he have reason to be in Silky Island?
00:22:31
Would he have reason to send in to go get the chest?
00:22:34
And then they would have had to follow him to Jamaica, even
00:22:38
finding the stones in a bond away, like everything has to do
00:22:42
with them two together. And so I don't think if it
00:22:47
wasn't for Frank, none of this, like we really kind of sort of
00:22:51
have to thank Frank because if it wasn't for Frank, we would
00:22:54
have none of this. Thank you.
00:22:56
Frank. Yeah, You know, as much as much
00:23:01
pain as it brought him, I really think he was kind of the, I
00:23:07
don't know, He's the catalyst. He's the centerpiece.
00:23:09
He's the reason why this whole thing exists, you know, And it's
00:23:12
just, it's very, it's a very weird thing.
00:23:15
And I think we probably won't figure none of this out until
00:23:18
she finishes writing the 10th book because she has explained,
00:23:21
she has always said that that whole scene in the in the very
00:23:26
first book, in the very first episode where Jamie's ghost is
00:23:30
looking up on Claire, she's going to explain that in the
00:23:32
10th book. So that will probably answer a
00:23:37
lot of questions about all this because again, you know, as I
00:23:41
mentioned, there are things that happened differently in the book
00:23:44
as far as how we find out that Frank knows about Jamie and some
00:23:48
of the stuff that he does that they didn't do in the show.
00:23:51
So I think eventually all roles with Jamie and Claire, they do
00:23:59
lead back to Frank. So in that sense, I don't mind
00:24:03
his voice overs as much because I feel like they're kind of
00:24:07
necessary. But like I said, in the books,
00:24:10
there's like a couple of other characters who are on the Ridge
00:24:12
with them. And one of those characters sees
00:24:14
ghosts and he actually sees Frank's ghost walking around the
00:24:17
Ridge. And when he tells Jamie about
00:24:21
it, he was like, yeah, there's a guy who follows you quite a bit.
00:24:24
He he follows your wife too. You know, he's dressed, I think
00:24:27
he said something about he's dressed in brown, some kind of
00:24:30
weird suit, and he has a hat on and blah, blah, blah, blah,
00:24:36
blah. And yeah.
00:24:38
And then Jamie is kind of like he, he has figured out who it
00:24:41
is. And he was like, I think the guy
00:24:43
sees Frank's picture on a book or something like that.
00:24:46
And Jamie was like, well, what does he do?
00:24:49
He's he's like nothing. He just sits there and he
00:24:52
laughs. And I was like, oh, Frank, you
00:24:54
being an asshole even in the afterlife.
00:24:56
Because obviously, you know, in Frank's mind, he knows what's
00:25:01
about to happen or he knows that Jamie is about to die, whatever
00:25:04
the case is, whatever, whatever. But my thing too with Frank,
00:25:09
dude, you've been dead for how long this has been going.
00:25:12
Let it go. Let it go.
00:25:14
She's been back at the Ridge now for 20 years.
00:25:16
Let it go. That's a long time.
00:25:22
That's a long time to hold the grudge, dead or alive.
00:25:25
And so that actually so then that that would be if you
00:25:29
include the fact she's been back for 20 years and then for the.
00:25:32
Years that he bears. Between Gosh, that's.
00:25:36
Yeah, because I think at this point in the story, Brianna is
00:25:41
in her early 40s. So yeah, it's been a while.
00:25:47
Let it go, dude. Go, go.
00:25:49
Follow. Follow the white light.
00:25:51
Stop looking to see what's going to happen because I mean,
00:25:55
because what's going to happen if he dies?
00:25:58
Are you? Are you going to sit there and
00:26:00
pester him all in the afterlife? Oh God, Can you imagine?
00:26:04
It went when Claire dies and she sees you lurking around, are you
00:26:08
are you going to try to be like, OK, well, you don't have your
00:26:10
whole lifetime with him. It's like just that.
00:26:12
Do let it go, let it go, let it go, let it go.
00:26:19
So yeah. Or maybe he's just tied to
00:26:23
Claire for life. Like maybe that's his.
00:26:27
His soul is fated to be trapped. That's so sad.
00:26:32
That's. But and that is say it, that's
00:26:34
say it. Poor friend.
00:26:36
Yeah, it is. Because you could.
00:26:40
You could. You want to go go go hunt Sandy.
00:26:45
You want to. You want to I'm.
00:26:46
I'm just saying you wanted to divorce Claire.
00:26:50
You wanted to go marry her. Here it is 20 something years
00:26:54
later, she's still mad at Claire.
00:26:56
Like, yeah, you you should have let him go.
00:26:58
I would give anything. Had one go go haunt her.
00:27:01
Leave Claire alone. Because it's not clear.
00:27:05
You have to understand, even though this man left and he was
00:27:07
going to marry someone, that is who he really loved.
00:27:12
I know. Which is very sad because he.
00:27:15
Who will not? And she is not loving him back.
00:27:19
That first season when I started my rewatch and just how he was
00:27:23
just like so obsessed with finding her and just so panicked
00:27:26
about everything and just yeah, it is kind of sad though.
00:27:32
It is, yeah. So like, have her.
00:27:36
You have her right here, but she's not even right here with
00:27:40
you. At the same time, like that's
00:27:44
what you chose because you couldn't.
00:27:47
You could have been like, oh, OK, well, you know what?
00:27:50
You want to be in love with this man.
00:27:52
You, you, he he didn't have to take her back.
00:27:55
And I think. Yeah, but he wasn't going to
00:27:56
leave her like that though either.
00:27:58
But still, it's kind of like you took her back and you put
00:28:01
conditions on taking her back based on what she was going to
00:28:07
lack. And that whenever you put those
00:28:10
kind of conditions or those kind of restrictions on a person,
00:28:16
it's never going to work out the way you it.
00:28:17
Wasn't going to work out before he even put the restrictions,
00:28:20
but he was just trying to hold on to something that was falling
00:28:22
out of his hands so he thought that.
00:28:25
Also, like honestly, I'm going to be here, I'm going to stay
00:28:28
married to you, I'm going to take care of this kid and we
00:28:30
just going to live life like ain't nothing changed.
00:28:32
You owe me something. Well, I ain't going to be just
00:28:36
pretending to be the happy wife over here while you over there.
00:28:39
Then didn't done soldier royal oats and all this other stuff.
00:28:42
Now I feel where he comes from. Like, I probably would have gave
00:28:46
her something and I definitely wouldn't want her to be with if
00:28:48
I was. I wouldn't want her to be with
00:28:50
this man that she had so much passion and fire for.
00:28:55
Oh, God, no. Yeah, no.
00:28:56
Yeah, because you got to remember the passion fire was in
00:28:59
her eyes before she left, when she came back.
00:29:02
OK, nothing. Yeah, yeah.
00:29:06
OK. But.
00:29:07
Something about that I always didn't like and I don't know if
00:29:09
I can't remember if it was in a book or not because it's been so
00:29:11
long since I read that book. In the first book, but in the
00:29:13
first season when he's like seeing the ghost and he's like
00:29:17
there's somebody out there watching you or then he starts
00:29:20
immediately thinking she cheating.
00:29:21
So he like, I feel like he's very insecure and like maybe he
00:29:27
doesn't feel like he deserves somebody of Claire's looks or
00:29:31
talent or whatever. And so I told you, remember,
00:29:34
there's a huge age difference between them, too.
00:29:37
Oh, that's where I forgot he is. So, you know, and then again, I
00:29:42
mean, when you think about it, they were married for five years
00:29:45
at that point, she said. They had seen each other what a
00:29:48
total of 8 days. So, you know, I can kind of
00:29:55
understand that as well. Like, oh, did you get close to
00:29:58
anybody? Because for most people yet with
00:30:01
those kind of conditions, they probably would have.
00:30:03
But it's kind of like, and, and then again, him knowing that
00:30:07
Claire is a very passionate person, but Claire is a very
00:30:10
physical person. So I mean, that was one, that
00:30:14
was one of the, that was one of the things about their
00:30:16
relationship too. They were very, they were very
00:30:19
physical, very intimate. So, yeah, but I just do you.
00:30:26
You knew when she came back and she explained all this stuff to
00:30:29
you that she was absolutely head over heels in love with another
00:30:33
man. You should have never tried to
00:30:34
force her. But he was in love with her.
00:30:37
Conoco, you guys, he. Was in love with her but still,
00:30:40
I mean even even now we with people stop trying to force
00:30:45
people to love you that don't love you.
00:30:48
Right, we are saying that, but this is he couldn't, he couldn't
00:30:53
help himself. And he didn't want her to be
00:30:56
just in the street. Single mom back in them days.
00:31:00
Because he actually loved her so.
00:31:02
Oh, she came back pregnant. This ain't Frank's baby.
00:31:05
He didn't want her to go through that, you know?
00:31:08
There are ways that he could have that, that that could have
00:31:10
been taken care of and, and been a little more discreet and he
00:31:14
could have still, OK, I'm help you out, but whatever, whatever.
00:31:19
Now, you know, back in the day, he could no.
00:31:21
But no. But I I get it that he was in
00:31:23
love with her and blah blah blah but still it's like you don't
00:31:28
force someone to stay with you that you know doesn't.
00:31:32
Love you, but honestly she. Never.
00:31:34
Had to stay though she didn't have to.
00:31:38
So you can't say we he forced her.
00:31:40
She didn't have to. She just knew that Frank was
00:31:43
going to help her take care. Of that, right?
00:31:45
So she said this is the easier route for me to take.
00:31:50
She chose this too, Jamie. Also was like go back to Frank.
00:31:55
Right. It was the plan all along.
00:31:59
Yeah. Because that is the truth
00:32:02
though. Like she, like you can't force
00:32:04
Claire to do anything. One.
00:32:07
And two, you're right, that was the plan.
00:32:11
Go back to him. He'll take you back.
00:32:13
See, that was wrong. They set that man up, but we'll
00:32:19
have another podcast about Frank.
00:32:24
When the book come out. Oh yeah, didn't.
00:32:26
When the book come out, I probably won't even like him, so
00:32:29
I'm just going to. Yeah, 'cause you still need to
00:32:32
read the books. So yeah, I have the nice break
00:32:35
in my head. Have you not started any of
00:32:38
them? The first one.
00:32:40
Oh, but she's been on the first one forever.
00:32:44
Some years. Oh yeah.
00:32:48
So yeah, at some point I, I think, I think I talked about
00:32:52
this last year, I do want to start back from the beginning,
00:32:54
especially now that they're almost to the end of the show.
00:32:58
Because now I can at this point, once the show is over, I can
00:33:01
stop wondering about, oh, are they going to pull anything
00:33:04
else? Are they going to do this?
00:33:05
Are they going to do that? So I think I'll be able to go
00:33:07
back and actually do a full reread at that point.
00:33:12
And then I, I do want to read the novellas.
00:33:14
She wrote a whole she's written a whole bunch of shit about this
00:33:17
universe. So which is great, which is, I
00:33:22
think that's wonderful because there should be where you create
00:33:26
this world, that you should be able to continuously write about
00:33:30
the world. Yeah, I was thinking that when
00:33:33
we did, OK, this is a separate thing, but we did get to go see,
00:33:37
you know, Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.
00:33:40
And I was thinking the same thing, like you have a universe
00:33:43
where there are so much more you could ride about.
00:33:48
Yeah. And same here.
00:33:49
She made one. She should be able to.
00:33:52
Yeah. And she has mentioned there are
00:33:54
other things that she is planning to write.
00:33:57
Yeah, how old is she? Like 60 now right in.
00:34:00
Her 70s, I think. Oh, 70s.
00:34:03
Yeah, yeah, OK. She and yeah, I think she just
00:34:09
turned 76, but I know she's as she's like, she's writing book
00:34:16
10 now. I think she's actively writing
00:34:20
Brian and Ellen's story, her version of it, and she's
00:34:27
supposed to be writing something about Frank and you.
00:34:32
OK, yeah, she's 74. OK, OK.
00:34:35
OK. So that's fine.
00:34:37
Yeah. Yeah, and, and she's still but,
00:34:40
but the thing with her is she's still pretty active.
00:34:42
She's still trying. That's what I'm saying that's.
00:34:44
What I'm saying and she is still actively writing so so we may
00:34:48
still get get, get stuff from her.
00:34:52
And if not, I'm not sure what her plan is if or when that
00:34:56
happens because you know, some, some authors, some authors they
00:34:59
actually have like a contingency plan.
00:35:02
Right. And and notes.
00:35:04
So hopefully she has some and. She she apparently writes a lot
00:35:07
of notes. OK, because but one thing I do
00:35:10
know, and if she ever listens to us, OK, I'm hearing, I'm not
00:35:14
hearing Claire's parents again. Like it's something about Claire
00:35:17
and her parents did. You can't.
00:35:21
They are. They are completely dead to her.
00:35:23
But they have a story to be told.
00:35:26
And that's. What the show was for, Yeah.
00:35:29
No, I can tell you she has something against them.
00:35:32
I mean, because it's I don't think it's that she has anything
00:35:35
against them in her mind. She killed those characters.
00:35:39
Yeah. It's like the moms, they're dead
00:35:41
to her. But I'm saying they completely
00:35:44
dead to her. She won't even like, open up the
00:35:46
book and check to make sure they're in the casket.
00:35:48
Yeah. No, yeah, no.
00:35:51
To her, they're dead. And I and I get that.
00:35:53
I understand it. The fact that they were able to
00:35:57
do the show because they were like, hey, what if we do it this
00:36:00
way? The fact that she was even open
00:36:02
to letting them do Henry and Julia's, you know, Henry and
00:36:09
Julia's story in a show. I was I, I'm very appreciative
00:36:13
of that because I do like what they're doing with the story.
00:36:16
But if, if they're dead to her on page, then I get it.
00:36:21
And, and I understand we probably will never get anything
00:36:24
about them, which is which is fine because again, I'm to the
00:36:30
point where for me the show and the books are separate.
00:36:34
Like yes, the the show are it is based on these characters and
00:36:38
based on these events, but I can look at them separately and I
00:36:43
can enjoy them both. And I'm not, you know, I'm not
00:36:46
so married to what happens in the books that I'm going to hate
00:36:50
watch the show because oh, they didn't do this in the books and
00:36:53
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because I knew like from early
00:36:56
on seasons. Oh, y'all are veering away from
00:36:58
the books. OK, I'm prepared for this.
00:37:00
And because I was the show first person, it doesn't bother me as
00:37:03
much. So, and I think that's always
00:37:07
the case. We've, we've had millions of
00:37:09
discussions about this. If I was a book reader first,
00:37:13
then yes, I think I would have been, I would probably be like
00:37:17
some of these other people like, oh, that's not how they did it,
00:37:19
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I, I like the fact that
00:37:23
they're kind of playing around with some things and, you know,
00:37:28
expanding on what the world is because again, going back to
00:37:31
blood of my blood, I love Julia and Henry story.
00:37:37
Love it. They're like, like, yes, I know
00:37:40
the story mainly is Brian and Ellen and we know them, but we
00:37:44
know Brian and Ellen from Outlander.
00:37:46
So even if they weren't part of that story, that would be fine.
00:37:49
I could do with a Julia and Henry story.
00:37:52
It doesn't even have to be like a full blown thing, but just to
00:37:55
give us some background. I would have been OK, but I love
00:37:58
Henry and Julia story in Blood of My Blood, and I'm so glad
00:38:02
that she gave them permission to explore that in the way that
00:38:05
they are because I absolutely love it.
00:38:09
But you know, it is what it is. We're still getting this.
00:38:15
We're we're getting story. We're getting some stuff that
00:38:18
that relates to the books. And yeah, I'm OK with it because
00:38:24
I think especially towards the the later books, she does
00:38:28
introduce a lot of new faces. And we do see some new faces in
00:38:33
this particular episode. Going back to the whole Frank
00:38:35
thing is like, I think with Brianna giving him the book, she
00:38:44
probably thought there were going to be some things in there
00:38:46
that that were helpful. And I can understand if you're
00:38:48
reading and you're like, oh, all he does is talk about Jamie
00:38:52
Fraser. Jamie Fraser.
00:38:53
He's mentioned them 14 times so far.
00:38:56
And that he dies. I get how that can be
00:39:00
disturbing. But there's also some other
00:39:02
useful information in there because Frank mentions names of
00:39:07
people who will be prominent in this this war.
00:39:11
And one of these folks happens to show his ass up on Jamie's
00:39:14
doorstep. But when I tell you, the moment
00:39:19
Claire opened her mouth to greet him and he was very dismissive
00:39:23
of her, I was like, yeah, I'm not going to like your ass.
00:39:26
Oh hell. Not going to like you.
00:39:29
And Claire was just looking at him like that's my husband, his
00:39:33
business is my business, my business.
00:39:36
And the way that guy dismissed her.
00:39:39
Yes, you know what I was like? Oh, it's about to be something.
00:39:44
Yeah, but it's like it is interesting because when they
00:39:47
have this conversation, this guy comes and he talks to Jamie and
00:39:50
he's Tories, meaning some loyalists on your land.
00:39:54
And then we find out that he has something to do with those two
00:39:57
that were hung in the last episode.
00:39:59
And Jamie's like, well, what were their crimes?
00:40:02
I told you they were tourists. So basically you you hanging
00:40:05
folks just because of of them being loyalists.
00:40:09
Like there wasn't even AI get it to them that that's part of the
00:40:14
crime. But the war has been over for a
00:40:16
couple of years at this point, you know.
00:40:21
But you know he comes. And he's trying to.
00:40:23
Make trying to entice Jamie to join his his group.
00:40:28
He's like, yeah, you know, your neighbors, we're all starting
00:40:32
militia because it's about to be a war.
00:40:35
And Jamie was like, I've turned down George Washington himself.
00:40:40
Like, talk about the name drop of all name drops.
00:40:44
I'll turn down the general. What makes you think I'm going
00:40:47
to say yes to you? And the guy is very like, I
00:40:52
just, I don't like his attitude. I don't like the way he's coming
00:40:57
up. Because one, if you've, as you
00:41:00
say, you've heard of Jamie Fraser, you know his you know
00:41:04
his reputation. You already know this is not a
00:41:07
man who plays the fool. Yeah.
00:41:10
Why are you on my doorstep acting like you're?
00:41:14
About to come intimidate. Me.
00:41:16
Yeah. How many battles have I been in?
00:41:19
How many times have I almost died?
00:41:23
How many? Like I wrote my resignation
00:41:26
letter in my wife's blood on a man's back and sent it to.
00:41:31
Really. You want to.
00:41:32
Play you want to come play. With me on my porch and then he
00:41:35
like your wife. Look like she healthy.
00:41:38
You said you was getting out because your wife was sick.
00:41:40
He looking good your business, but not only that, also she.
00:41:45
Helped it so now I'm supposed to go and sacrifice you know like
00:41:49
put my life on the line again like excuse me Sir yes my my
00:41:53
wife looks very fine and I would like to be alive to enjoy her a
00:41:56
little bit but not to mention she got shot because.
00:42:00
Of the freaking war like right come on now they.
00:42:04
Don't put enough. Blood into it, right?
00:42:06
But then again, you got to remember.
00:42:07
These are the men of the 1700s. Most of them don't even like
00:42:10
their wives like that, right? So, you know, so they disrespect
00:42:18
women. At all.
00:42:21
So yeah, so that whole. Thing that does kind of throw a
00:42:24
nerve, you know with Jamie because he was like this is one
00:42:27
of the men that Frank mentioned in his book and he also mentions
00:42:31
2 of the other names that you know that Frank mentioned said
00:42:35
we're going to play a large part in this.
00:42:37
So I think now it's getting to the point where he's starting to
00:42:40
worry because now he sees that some of the stuff Frank is
00:42:44
talking about is is is coming true or coming to pass.
00:42:48
So I think the book is going to be.
00:42:51
Helpful but. There are certain things that he
00:42:54
mentions that kind of make you wonder.
00:42:57
The fact that he, he says Frank never mentions any of my men by
00:43:02
name and I can't see myself fighting without them.
00:43:05
That is so true. Like if you knew anything about
00:43:08
Jamie as a person, you know that if he's going to battle,
00:43:13
especially if it's going to be defending the Ridge or whatever,
00:43:17
his folk are going to be there. To defend him.
00:43:22
And the fact that the the fact that Frank doesn't mention any
00:43:26
of them, it makes me wonder if he's really.
00:43:32
Talking about Jamie, or if he was.
00:43:34
Just like I don't it it also makes me think of.
00:43:38
Too. Is it like a a guidebook for
00:43:42
Jamie I thought? About that too.
00:43:47
Because regardless of how you feel about SO, you can read it
00:43:50
and like you can. Be aware of these are men you
00:43:52
need to be aware of because your daughter.
00:43:56
Is back there with this man, and regardless of how he feels about
00:44:02
Jamie, regardless of how he feels about Claire, one thing is
00:44:07
undeniable when it comes to Frank.
00:44:09
That man loves Brianna and he would not want.
00:44:14
Her. Harmed in any way.
00:44:16
And I'm sure if he looked through time or if he looked
00:44:20
through the pages of history and saw that his daughter went back,
00:44:24
he knows that she's there with her father.
00:44:26
And he knows that she probably loves Jamie as fiercely as she
00:44:30
loved him. And I also.
00:44:33
I started to wonder. After seeing this guy's
00:44:35
attitude, if Jamie would have died by.
00:44:43
Their hand, but they were like he was.
00:44:44
Fighting with us and he died and that's how they reported it kind
00:44:49
of thing. And that's what's in history
00:44:50
book, 'cause I'm like this guy doesn't seem like somebody I
00:44:53
would want to ally my ally myself with in any situation.
00:44:58
Wouldn't trust him as far as I like.
00:45:00
No, like this guy is he's. Oh, his attitude is just so
00:45:04
nasty and he was just nasty to Jamie.
00:45:06
I'm like you really want this man to come and be with y'all
00:45:10
but you talking smack to him at his house and you talk smack to
00:45:15
his wife? But the.
00:45:16
Browns were kind of the same way as well.
00:45:20
When he came. Oh yeah, we want you to join
00:45:22
our. Regulated group.
00:45:23
I mean, you know the the the other Brown, I can't remember
00:45:26
what his name was now. Not Lionel, the brother.
00:45:29
He was a little more polite. He was a little bit more
00:45:32
diplomatic, but still, it's kind of like you are approaching with
00:45:37
a certain a certain air of hostility and you want me to
00:45:43
trust you in battle, in battle and I'm supposed.
00:45:47
To think that you're going to have.
00:45:48
My back while people are shooting at me.
00:45:51
No thanks. And then he was like.
00:45:54
Not only was he talking about like the British, but he was
00:45:57
like naming the Native Americans and all the people they was
00:46:00
going to fight. And I'm like, bro, so you just
00:46:02
you know that ain't your land, right?
00:46:04
You do know that ain't your land Like just.
00:46:08
That's another thing that's. Really hard to like.
00:46:10
Hear them talk about stuff like that and the audacity.
00:46:16
Yeah, because. We know how that turned out.
00:46:19
Yeah. Yeah, just.
00:46:22
Terrible. Yeah.
00:46:24
But, you know, and then in that same conversation, he mentions
00:46:28
Captain Cunningham. He's like, yeah, you know, you
00:46:30
got a Tory on your land. Jamie was like, I'm a deal with
00:46:33
him. You leave this shit alone, I
00:46:36
would deal with what's going to happen on my land.
00:46:40
I was like, yeah, that was Jamie drawing that line in the sand.
00:46:43
Dude, you better go somewhere because what we're not going to
00:46:46
do is, yeah, we're not about to do this whole.
00:46:52
I don't even know if you want to call it vigilante justice.
00:46:54
We, we just what what you trying to do, we're not going to do
00:46:56
over here. That's not how we handle things.
00:46:59
Yeah, you know, but the way that Jamie.
00:47:03
Is going to handle this. Thing He brings up the whole
00:47:05
thing about the lodge. And them being Freemasons.
00:47:11
And I guess he's going to try to use that to kind of bond his
00:47:16
people together, including, you know, Cunningham, because that,
00:47:21
I guess, you know, kind of supersedes everything.
00:47:25
But I, I. Don't know because when.
00:47:29
When Captain Cunningham gets up and he does his.
00:47:33
Little speech and he's he's. Talking about the death of his
00:47:36
son and how his son died during the Battle of Saratoga, which of
00:47:43
course, Jamie was also there. But he talks about how his son
00:47:47
died and kind of came back to life for a moment and was like,
00:47:53
dad, don't don't fret, I'll see you again in seven years and
00:47:55
died. I was like, first of all, if if
00:47:59
somebody coming back from the dead just to tell me they're
00:48:01
gonna see me again in seven years.
00:48:03
The grim Reaper has has told him yeah.
00:48:06
Oh yeah, you gonna see him a lot sooner than you think.
00:48:09
I first of all, first of all, no, you don't have to come back
00:48:16
and tell me that. You can let me live blissfully
00:48:19
ignorant for the next 7 years. And then what I like.
00:48:23
Oh, cool. I listen.
00:48:29
But I didn't, I, I wasn't. I think when I listened to him
00:48:35
give the speech and he was talking about how, you know, he
00:48:38
has things to do when he's going to live fully in these seven
00:48:42
years and blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:48:43
When Jamie and Rodger having that conversation.
00:48:46
And Jamie was like, yeah, man who thinks he can't die is
00:48:49
dangerous. And I was like, wait, I never
00:48:51
think about it in that way that he thinks he can't die.
00:48:55
Like, he'll see me in seven years, years.
00:48:58
That means I have seven years before I die.
00:49:00
So it was like, oh, wait, that's not good.
00:49:04
Yeah, that's not good. And not to mention like.
00:49:10
I mean, obviously. In this world, people.
00:49:12
Do see ghosts and time travel is real, so it's not far fetched.
00:49:16
But it's also like you just lost your son and that's traumatizing
00:49:22
and you held him while he was like dying or whatever, I think
00:49:25
he said. So were you in your right mind,
00:49:28
Sir? I don't know.
00:49:28
I don't know. Yeah, 'cause it, it, you're,
00:49:33
you're right. It could have been it.
00:49:35
It could have been the way that you said it happened, but I also
00:49:40
could have been you just kind of manifesting that like.
00:49:45
But I don't know but but but for you.
00:49:47
To sit here and be like my, my son said he won't see me in
00:49:50
seven years and not a day before.
00:49:52
So I'm invincible right now. War is about to come to the
00:49:55
Backcountry, Sir. I'm gonna need you to not be
00:49:57
walking in front of bullets and stuff thinking that you're
00:49:59
invincible. But I mean, I'm just saying
00:50:04
because that never works out well for anyone, right?
00:50:09
So especially if you're going to be fighting on on Jamie's side,
00:50:12
but we don't even know if that's going to be the case.
00:50:16
Yeah, because. They are technically.
00:50:19
On opposite sides of their loyalties, which is.
00:50:25
Interesting to me because. That's one thing I don't recall
00:50:27
him ever clarifying. He said he was done with war,
00:50:32
but he didn't say he was loyal or his his loyalties had
00:50:36
changed. Right, right.
00:50:39
So I did wonder about that last episode.
00:50:42
And then they're coming. They're like, well, we going to
00:50:45
handle this guy Like, oh gosh. Yeah.
00:50:53
But OK, we let's talk about the William thing for a minute
00:50:58
because again. In the books.
00:51:03
This is a little bit more drawn out because it takes.
00:51:07
Months for William to go. On this journey of trying to
00:51:10
find Ben, you know you can't just it's not like they have
00:51:13
planes back then. You can't just go from Savannah
00:51:15
to Philadelphia. This is months long journey so
00:51:22
he's. You know he's going through.
00:51:24
He's trying to find out what happened to his cousin and as he
00:51:29
said, get get Ben's effects or whatever.
00:51:32
And it's so interesting because at the beginning of the episode
00:51:36
we get a little flashback scene of him, Ben and Henry.
00:51:40
And, you know, you see that little camaraderie.
00:51:43
This is when Ben is first given his Commission.
00:51:47
He tells them he's going to Boston.
00:51:49
William makes it a point to give him this little toy soldier that
00:51:54
they've had as children or whatever the case may be.
00:51:58
And Ben is like, I will keep this in this pocket with me
00:52:02
always. Oh my gosh, that was so sweet
00:52:04
it. Was and then.
00:52:06
When William gets to the camp and he finds.
00:52:11
Out about, you know. Kind of the limited
00:52:14
circumstances about Ben's death, the person we speaking to really
00:52:20
doesn't have much information, which in and of itself is odd
00:52:23
enough. Like, I understand he's a, he's
00:52:26
a prisoner of war and all this other stuff, but you can't
00:52:30
remember nothing. And they kept records of that
00:52:33
kind. Of stuff which is how we know
00:52:35
like people you know were prisoners and like in the now
00:52:38
times, it's like they kept record right and so you have
00:52:42
someone who. Worked in the medic clinic who
00:52:43
was like, Oh yeah, I remember him, he was a nice guy, you
00:52:46
know, blah blah blah. I was sad to hear he died,
00:52:49
especially when he was doing so much better.
00:52:51
We was like, he was doing better.
00:52:53
He was like, yeah, he was doing better.
00:52:56
I thought he was on the. Mend.
00:52:57
And then he died suddenly in the night, and by the time I got
00:53:00
here they had already buried him.
00:53:02
OK. In any circumstances, that's
00:53:06
going to be suspicious. So William gets.
00:53:13
Ben's effects, he's going through them while he's on his
00:53:16
campground. He's looking at the jacket, he
00:53:19
feels inside the pocket and the soldier is gone.
00:53:22
It's not there now. Anybody else?
00:53:25
Probably. Would have just been like, oh,
00:53:27
it must have fell out his pocket.
00:53:29
They must have thrown it away or something.
00:53:31
William is like this. Something about this ain't
00:53:37
right. He goes to dig up the grave and
00:53:42
find somebody else in Ben's place, Some old guy, old man.
00:53:47
Right, a old man, right? So now this opens.
00:53:50
Up a whole nother mystery, because where has Ben?
00:53:53
Obviously he's not dead. So what I was thinking, come on,
00:53:59
tell me, what's your theory then then was like.
00:54:02
F this. I ain't fighting this where I'm
00:54:05
out and he traded some stuff with somebody or gave somebody
00:54:09
some stuff to be like, hey, you going to be Officer Gray or
00:54:14
whatever his last name is, and I'm going to go over here and
00:54:17
I'm going to be somebody else in a different place because say
00:54:20
what? There's no way.
00:54:22
Ain't no way. Hold on to that thought.
00:54:27
Yeah, I would say. That that's OK 'cause you're.
00:54:31
You're you're on the right. Track there's some other
00:54:35
there's. Some other stuff there.
00:54:37
But if they do what they do in the books, you're on the right
00:54:39
track. OK 'cause I was like.
00:54:42
Wait a minute, I will say. This for William.
00:54:47
OK, because. Everybody who is associated.
00:54:53
With Jamie, they have a little bit more than the average
00:54:56
intelligence because if this had been anybody else, they would
00:54:59
have just let it go. Yeah.
00:55:01
They wouldn't have thought this through.
00:55:03
Like, oh, wait a minute, this seems suspicious.
00:55:08
He wouldn't have let go of it. Like you're talking about a
00:55:11
little bitty, not even a 2 inch tall toy soldier.
00:55:16
Yeah. You know.
00:55:20
For you to put that much significance on it that you
00:55:23
automatically know if it's not in the pocket, he has it with
00:55:28
him, you know. And so when he when he does
00:55:35
that, when he, you know, when he digs up the grave, when he
00:55:38
realizes Ben is not there, he's joyous.
00:55:41
But now he's like, wait a minute, I got a whole new
00:55:44
mystery to solve. I I wasn't coming to be school,
00:55:47
you know, I wasn't coming to be scooby-doo.
00:55:49
What what is going on? What, what is happening?
00:55:51
Where is my cousin? So, yeah, William is about to go
00:55:56
on adventure, which I don't think it's going to take too
00:56:00
long because again, now we only have 8 episodes.
00:56:02
So I don't have 8 episodes. We don't need to.
00:56:05
Yeah. But it it's going to be an.
00:56:06
Interesting, very interesting tale.
00:56:10
Yeah, well, I. You know, 'cause I'm still
00:56:12
waiting on Miss Amaranthus to come out with whatever her scam
00:56:15
is. Listen.
00:56:19
I'm just saying it's it's going to get interesting.
00:56:24
It's going to get interesting. But let's see, what else do we
00:56:34
need to like talk about talk about because I'm I'm kind of
00:56:37
like Michelle. I don't think anything like
00:56:39
really happened that's pushing the story for in this particular
00:56:44
episode. This was, I think, more so
00:56:46
filler and kind of background information for episodes that
00:56:51
are to come. You know, aside from the fact
00:56:54
that, yes, Rachel had her baby and I thought it was really
00:57:00
cute. They, they kept the book name
00:57:02
for now. But I think it was, it was weird
00:57:06
for me as a book reader because you, you talk about calling him
00:57:10
arguing. Oh, yeah, we've we've been
00:57:12
calling him arguing this whole time while, you know, she was
00:57:15
pregnant. But they don't really explain
00:57:16
the significance of that. Like, it was a big, I want not a
00:57:19
big thing in the book, but it was just kind of one of those
00:57:23
playful things, like, he doesn't get his actual name, probably
00:57:26
for another year because they can't figure out what to call
00:57:30
him. You know, they went through all
00:57:32
the stuff. I was like, you are not about to
00:57:34
name this child Marmaduke Ian, right?
00:57:36
I thought so, too. I was like, OK, we're not going
00:57:40
there. No, we're not.
00:57:41
Going there, I'll take wolf goodness or.
00:57:43
Fox even I'll take Fox, but Marmaduke?
00:57:47
No Marmaduke. But if?
00:57:49
They do what they did in the book as far as how he gets his
00:57:53
name and what his name is and stuff like that.
00:57:56
I think y'all will be pleased. OK 'cause it it it's a.
00:57:59
It's a really. It's a very sweet and very full
00:58:03
circle moment. I really was like, name him.
00:58:07
After, yeah, I thought about that.
00:58:11
I thought. About.
00:58:12
That too, but I don't know I. I like.
00:58:17
It sometimes when they. Name babies after other
00:58:21
characters. But at the same time, I kind of
00:58:23
feel like in a sense you're putting, you're putting the
00:58:29
expectations of someone else on that child by naming them after
00:58:33
them. And I just don't think it's fair
00:58:35
to that child because you're giving them a name to live up to
00:58:39
and on. On the one hand, that can be a
00:58:41
good thing, and on the what other hand, it can be.
00:58:44
I, I think it can be a thing that's very intimidating for
00:58:48
someone like no, give him his own identity.
00:58:51
Ian is already named after his dad.
00:58:53
Just, you know, was it Jenny said, yeah, I figured we might,
00:58:56
we, we should name one of the kids after the man who fired
00:58:59
him, you know, 6 kids down the line.
00:59:03
So. But yeah, that that was.
00:59:07
Sweet. Fanny's talking about Janie.
00:59:11
I do love that part. And the the part about her
00:59:15
looking through the mic, the microscope and having the
00:59:19
conversation with Claire. And Claire's trying to explain
00:59:21
one thing too. And she was like, oh, so is that
00:59:24
also with the women in the. OK?
00:59:26
Yes, that's what you need when you when you get pregnant,
00:59:28
talking about, you know, women's natural lubrication.
00:59:31
I was like, yeah. Claire's like, no, we're not.
00:59:34
We're we're not going to have that conversation.
00:59:36
Yeah, yeah. But oh, that's so funny.
00:59:41
I like that, Fanny. 'S settling into.
00:59:43
The Ridge and that she's settling in with with the
00:59:46
family, but I still I hope that. Where they left us with the
00:59:51
faith. Stuff is not where they're going
00:59:53
to leave us with the face stuff. I need y'all to talk one way or
00:59:56
another definitively what happened to this child, right?
01:00:00
Go ahead and address it, get it over with and and let us be done
01:00:03
with it because the way that they left it in that first
01:00:06
episode, just kind of. Oh yes, she did live and then
01:00:10
she was killed. OK, but how did she live?
01:00:12
I that's not a good place to leave it on.
01:00:16
Like I just 'cause why even mention her right?
01:00:21
What was the whole point I mean? Yes, I get it.
01:00:24
You wanted to tie Claire, you know, Claire and Jamie's family
01:00:26
together, But again, it makes a whole bunch of things really
01:00:32
weird, especially with the fact that William and Jane slept
01:00:35
together. And technically speaking, that
01:00:37
would have been, that would have been William's niece.
01:00:39
That's just it's, and I understand this is 1700s you,
01:00:44
you marry into family, cousins and cousins wed all the time.
01:00:48
But still it's, it's a, it's a weird way to to to, to build
01:00:55
that story. Doesn't William needs any more
01:00:59
trouble? Yeah, he doesn't.
01:01:02
Listen. Listen.
01:01:05
He doesn't. Oh God.
01:01:08
The only other. Thing that I really.
01:01:10
Have AI won't say a gripe about but you keep mentioning the
01:01:16
twins but we have not seen the twins yet.
01:01:19
Only one? There's one.
01:01:21
Marquez and Isaiah, Yeah, we. Want one when When?
01:01:26
He came. When Lizzie was trying to find
01:01:28
out if Amy survived, he was with her.
01:01:32
Oh, OK. And he was.
01:01:34
When they went to a. Hunt for the deer.
01:01:36
I mean the deer, the bear. Bear.
01:01:38
Yeah. He's on that last course.
01:01:40
Him, but he. Looked different.
01:01:41
I was like, yeah, OK, he's on that last course.
01:01:44
Really like. You know.
01:01:46
Really put like, you know, I just kind of like brush.
01:01:50
Like it was kind of like that, yeah.
01:01:52
And I'm gonna need y'all to not brush over.
01:01:53
Them, you know, because because they're, they're family.
01:01:57
But when? When they?
01:02:00
Were talking to her. And they were telling and she
01:02:02
was talking about the bees and they, and then she was leaving
01:02:04
and they was like, yeah, you. Jamie was like, yeah.
01:02:09
For three of you, Josiah and Kissy, he's Kissy.
01:02:12
He's still uncomfortable with that.
01:02:18
Oh man, that's some funny. Stuff right there.
01:02:20
Yeah, that's funny. But yeah, I would like.
01:02:22
To see a little bit more of them, yeah, I did like.
01:02:28
You did mention that. They did a lot of stuff from the
01:02:30
book. I did like that they did the
01:02:33
talking to the bees thing, and I thought that was special,
01:02:38
especially since Jamie had already said that.
01:02:39
But then she was talking to the bees at the end, I guess 'cause
01:02:42
she needed to get stuff off her chest, and I thought that was
01:02:45
really cool. Yeah, yeah.
01:02:48
Because again, we look, we didn't really get to know her
01:02:51
very well, but it was a very sad, very sad event.
01:02:55
And then to see how. Shaking like Rachel and
01:02:59
especially Brianna. Brianna was like really shaking
01:03:02
because she was the one. She was like, I had my rifle.
01:03:04
It was right there, but baby, you didn't know you was going to
01:03:07
need it. Like, no, 'cause that just went.
01:03:08
I mean just let the girl have. A seat and that bear just came
01:03:11
out that. Bear came out of nowhere and it
01:03:13
was fast. And also Breanna's such a.
01:03:16
Like she doesn't build herself up with all these incidents
01:03:20
where she's a hard, you know, she she, you know, she hardcore
01:03:23
now. She's not like a little wimpy
01:03:26
girl. And so for that to happen on her
01:03:28
watch, I feel like it's gonna probably plague her because she
01:03:31
is that person who feels like she's the protector and she got
01:03:34
this. And, you know, I got to go out
01:03:37
and shoot something. I'm.
01:03:38
Like, oh Lord. I know, but you know what I did?
01:03:42
Feel some kind of way about the fact that you know, they were
01:03:45
bringing Aiden with them on the hunt because they went to go
01:03:48
hunt the bear and they were like, you know he deserves a
01:03:51
chance to avenge his mother, which I thought was you know
01:03:56
again, I feel like he was young but I have to remember in those
01:04:00
times that's kind of how you taught the kids to be a man like
01:04:03
you allow them to partake and stuff like that it's the same
01:04:06
thing it really brought to mind Game of Thrones when the man
01:04:11
took brands to go don't don't look away.
01:04:14
Father will know if you look away right, right.
01:04:17
You know, just thinking about that.
01:04:20
So, but they're looking for the. Bear and this.
01:04:24
Actually takes place, like I said, over a longer span of time
01:04:27
in the book. I think it it takes place like
01:04:29
literally from daylight to sunset.
01:04:33
And there's some other stuff that happens in between and
01:04:37
stuff like that. But the fact that when they get
01:04:39
to the bear, the bear is already dead because Cunningham has
01:04:43
gotten to it and he's like, yeah, your your mother has been
01:04:46
advanced. That that it felt wrong to me
01:04:53
because I was like. Yeah, you, you.
01:04:55
Talked to this kid and you made it seem like he was going to be
01:05:00
the. One to be able.
01:05:01
To do it and then all of a sudden he doesn't even get a
01:05:06
chance because I think in the book, if I remember correctly,
01:05:10
he had the chance to kill the bear.
01:05:12
But for some reason, I think I think he.
01:05:15
Backed away from doing. It because he he didn't want to
01:05:19
kill a living thing. I think I'm remembering that
01:05:23
correct. And then someone else took the
01:05:25
kill for him. But it was one of those things
01:05:28
where he actually had a say in it.
01:05:30
And the fact that he didn't in this in this episode that I
01:05:34
don't, I don't know some about that just didn't fit right with
01:05:37
me. And I know that I don't think
01:05:40
Captain Cunningham is. I don't think he's.
01:05:46
Antagonistic, but I don't know something and I I don't remember
01:05:50
much clearly about him from the books, but something about him
01:05:53
just seems really off. Yeah.
01:05:59
I didn't like it either because. I also felt like knowing that.
01:06:04
Whole 7 year. Story I kind of feel like you
01:06:07
just feel like now you just. Going to do whatever.
01:06:09
Because you ain't going to die and you just out here doing
01:06:12
crazy stuff and you going to get somebody killed doing that
01:06:16
because people going to always be compelled to save you if
01:06:18
something goes awry. And then I also I just felt like
01:06:21
they really should have let the at least the husband, like maybe
01:06:24
if you you could have pinned him down, like got him down, but let
01:06:28
the husband feel the finish it. That was his wife.
01:06:30
I don't know. I didn't like that scene either.
01:06:32
I didn't like the heat. He was like, oh, I I've had my
01:06:35
rifle. So I just went on ahead.
01:06:37
Nobody asked you. Yeah, yeah, it.
01:06:40
Just, I don't know, It's, it's that it, it, it's that weird
01:06:43
with me. So yeah, but.
01:06:50
Is there anything else we need to talk about with this?
01:06:52
Episode that's what I'm trying to remember like is there
01:06:55
something we? Missed.
01:06:59
I just know if anybody talking about.
01:07:01
How great their life is? They bout to die, right?
01:07:07
Listen, she was. Talking about how?
01:07:09
Good, like I said. Oh, Oh no, I don't even know
01:07:12
what's about to happen, But you know, it wasn't.
01:07:15
Going to be good, especially when she walked off.
01:07:18
Yeah, that's what I thought too. I was like, what's?
01:07:20
About I thought something, right, I thought that too,
01:07:24
'cause she was talking about the answer.
01:07:25
I'm like, she's about to have an allergic reaction.
01:07:28
She's far from them. But then when the bears start
01:07:32
coming, I was like, oh, OK, she done.
01:07:35
He came straight. To her that.
01:07:37
Was that was that was meant to. Happen, girl.
01:07:39
I'm sorry. Yeah.
01:07:41
That was meant to happen, but no, I think we hit everything.
01:07:45
Yeah, I can't. Think of anything else, Yeah.
01:07:52
So we have 8 more episodes, yeah.
01:07:54
We got some insane. To me 'cause this is unfinished.
01:07:58
Like this does not feel so that's why I had.
01:08:01
An issue with this episode but now getting the information from
01:08:05
you and how it relates to the book.
01:08:07
I'm OK but I'm thinking like. Yeah, I, I, I, I really do feel.
01:08:13
Like what they're doing is they're they're giving us.
01:08:16
Little bits of these back. Stories of these people because
01:08:19
at some point there are going to be important to however they
01:08:24
decide to write this ending because again, they're varying
01:08:27
from the book 10th book has been written yet.
01:08:29
So we don't know how Diana Gabaldon is going to in the
01:08:34
story. So they're having to craft their
01:08:35
own story. So I feel like all of these
01:08:40
people who they are showing us are going to be important in
01:08:43
some way to whatever the end of this story is.
01:08:46
And I know that I know we're getting another big battle.
01:08:50
It's just because Frank talks about it in the book.
01:08:53
We've seen the people starting to show up talking about, yeah,
01:08:57
there's war coming to the Backcountry, whatever, whatever.
01:09:00
All I got to say is Jamie bet not dying.
01:09:04
Michelle, I do not want to hear you talking.
01:09:06
Nothing about the notebook. That was that was like I was in
01:09:11
my head, like they better die. Like the notebook, right?
01:09:14
But like but. Claire, I want to.
01:09:16
Say, Claire, you can't tell that man he not going to die.
01:09:19
You're not going to die. Oh boy, he he.
01:09:22
One day he is gonna die. What you gonna do?
01:09:25
I feel like they think they after all.
01:09:27
These missed these missed opportunities to die.
01:09:29
They feel like they're getting invincible.
01:09:31
And I'm like y'all not Yeah, but they still gonna get older.
01:09:34
So at some point, yeah. Hey, the notebook.
01:09:38
Is the way to go. But it won't be tragic.
01:09:40
Though it'll just be normal. Like the notebook?
01:09:44
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like the notebook?
01:09:45
'Cause anything else is tragic. 1 can live without the other
01:09:50
that I I do feel. That so, yeah.
01:09:55
Yeah, yeah, I wanna know who got.
01:09:58
Even more fine this season, Richard.
01:10:00
Rankin boy, he doesn't he every every season his glove just get
01:10:04
better. Listen, I'm just like, listen,
01:10:09
give. Me some Roger Mack.
01:10:10
Any day and in person. Like OK, but I say the.
01:10:17
Casting Department. They did very well with this
01:10:23
cast. Yes, so the all of them look
01:10:25
good in person look good. But yes, Richard is.
01:10:31
Yes, Roger Mack is. Is.
01:10:35
Yeah, so. You.
01:10:41
Guys, have any final thoughts for?
01:10:42
This episode and wait for Friday, I was gonna say.
01:10:47
Something really bad, but I'm. Not say it, say it.
01:10:50
Look, give us something spicy to end on, OK?
01:10:53
Well, we learned about Lou. But you know.
01:10:59
How it's pretty when you in your 60s it.
01:11:01
Don't. It's.
01:11:01
It's just and then you get an example we.
01:11:04
Learned earlier how it's produced, and then later we
01:11:07
learned how it just flows, so you know.
01:11:13
Something to aspire to, I. Was going to say, you know, we
01:11:16
should all be. So lucky with, right?
01:11:18
That's what I'm saying. I mean, come.
01:11:20
On 60s. That all I need to do is say.
01:11:24
I need you. You like OK, OK.
01:11:28
But you know, I'm just this is. Claire and Jamie, I think they
01:11:30
are just perpetually aroused by, I mean for real, she.
01:11:35
Probably was like in her dream, like I'm gonna get me some dream
01:11:39
because. Right.
01:11:41
Right. He didn't even kiss her.
01:11:43
Let me just say. It was just like, oh.
01:11:47
When knowing in real. Life you go.
01:11:49
With like I got to get up in the morning.
01:11:52
You shoot her. Like you notice how she was
01:11:55
having sleep during. The whole thing right
01:11:58
afterwards, she was just like, OK, now I can go back to sleep.
01:12:02
I mean the way I'll be graping that.
01:12:04
Adam, he tried to kiss me when he leave for work.
01:12:06
Child, you ain't right. I'm like, you woke me up.
01:12:09
You woke me up. And we also and and.
01:12:18
And it wasn't no marathon session either.
01:12:21
No, no, no, no. No, and like it was creepy.
01:12:24
Because. He had.
01:12:26
His eyes wide open, sparing off But but most of the time in.
01:12:32
Back in those times, they really do.
01:12:34
Like the only time you really see people closing their eyes is
01:12:37
like during the romance stuff and you know, all that stuff.
01:12:40
That's one of the reasons why Frank was so bothered by her
01:12:43
closing her eyes, you know, because he was like, why?
01:12:47
Why are you? Why are you doing this with your
01:12:48
eyes closed? You, you never closed your eyes
01:12:50
before. And to me, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry.
01:12:53
I get like a stare, a, a longing look every once in awhile.
01:12:57
I'm not about to sit here and just stare at you to hold.
01:12:59
That's just why my whole hair. Died.
01:13:02
That's the reason. But that's the total.
01:13:05
Truth. It's like this is weird that's
01:13:08
why I. Was weird the way he was looking
01:13:09
though 'cause he wasn't. Looking at her, he was just
01:13:11
looking, but I think also OK. But if that's the case, But he
01:13:17
could have been looking at Frank's ghost, like, yeah, you
01:13:19
want to be in my face? Now how about this girl?
01:13:23
Oh my. God, so that I really feel like
01:13:26
that was 1. Of those petty things it was, I
01:13:29
need, I need you to exercise, exercise this, this voice out of
01:13:33
my head. I need to stop think.
01:13:35
I need to stop thinking about Frank and what he's telling me
01:13:38
about my future and what's the best way to do that?
01:13:41
Plus, what's the best way to shut Frank look up?
01:13:44
Oh yeah, I'm gonna go fuck this woman that you've been in love
01:13:46
with for 40 something years that you can't even let go of.
01:13:48
And death. It was he did that and I loved
01:13:53
it. He.
01:13:54
Did that. I was like.
01:13:55
OK, come on, Jamie. Yeah, I was like, OK, yeah, but
01:14:02
the the preview for the next episode looks interesting.
01:14:06
I didn't. Did I watch?
01:14:07
I missed it. Oh.
01:14:09
Yeah, you think I watched? It I just don't remember it.
01:14:13
I think I watch some drama. It's about to be some drama, but
01:14:17
that's OK as always. But that's what we're here for.
01:14:20
Right. You don't have much to go here,
01:14:23
so what's going to happen? Give it.
01:14:26
To us, give it to us all the drama.
01:14:30
All right, well, 8 episodes left at some point.
01:14:34
We're going to do what we have planned on doing with this
01:14:37
season. We had all said before this
01:14:39
season started, we were like, we're going to we're going to do
01:14:41
watch parties together and we're going to record our reactions.
01:14:44
We, when I say everybody's schedule has been like this and
01:14:49
we have not had a chance to do it.
01:14:51
But I have a feeling we'll probably, I would say we'll
01:14:53
probably for the last maybe 3 or 4 episodes.
01:14:57
I think we'll try to make that a priority because I have a
01:15:00
feeling there's some big things that's going to happen that we
01:15:04
might need to get some reactions to.
01:15:07
So we'll try to get that done. But for now, that is it for our
01:15:12
show. You can find us online at
01:15:14
www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media, on all
01:15:18
the social media at Phantom Hybrid.
01:15:20
You can chat with us on our Discord channel, you can watch
01:15:22
our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to
01:15:25
us on all major podcast streaming platforms.
01:15:28
Thanks for listening. We hope you join the
01:15:30
conversation next time. Music.