#outlander Jamie's entry into the first Battle of Saratoga yields a positive result. Claire meets a notorious American figure in an unexpected way. Ian and Rachel dance around their feelings towards each other. Denzell seeks Claire's advise. Roger and Buck make plans to go after Rob and Jem. The second Battle of Saratoga puts Jamie's divided loyalties to the ultimate test. Jamie, Claire, and Ian are finally able to resume their travels to Scotland. An old foe returns.
00:00:25
What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode
00:00:27
of the Phantom Hybrid podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here
00:00:30
physically with Michelle and we are discussing Outlander season
00:00:35
7 episode 8. It is the I guess you can call
00:00:42
it mid season finale for season 7 even though season 7 was over
00:00:48
a year ago. But that's OK.
00:00:50
Drought Lander is officially over.
00:00:52
Episode 9 has been released. We are going to discuss that
00:00:55
later. But first we need to catch up on
00:00:58
the first half of season 7 and this episode.
00:01:01
And it's been so long, Michelle forgot that she watched the
00:01:04
episode. Or or you said you didn't watch
00:01:06
that. I I don't even remember.
00:01:09
So we were supposed to record this a few weeks ago.
00:01:12
We both got busy with work and then Michelle had laryngitis for
00:01:17
almost a week. Yes, and Vertigo.
00:01:20
And Vertigo, yes. And then we had Conjuration.
00:01:24
So we talked about this episode at Conjuration.
00:01:28
We need to get to it right now. So let's get to it.
00:01:33
First off, Claire told Jamie. If you don't come back from this
00:01:37
battle, I'm gonna come looking. For you, that's what she did.
00:01:41
And, and, and she had to fend off this woman and her child who
00:01:45
was going through picking the pockets of the dead to get
00:01:50
stuff. This woman was really going to
00:01:53
try to kill Jamie and like what? But I don't understand, like you
00:01:58
don't even have to kill him. Just hurry up and pick his
00:02:00
pocket and go to another person, right?
00:02:02
Because this is how that. Works.
00:02:03
They're on the battlefield, chances are.
00:02:05
They're going to die soon. She's going to die soon anyway.
00:02:08
Internal bleeding. I mean, they're going to die
00:02:10
soon, but you know, with Claire, you can't mess with her boots.
00:02:12
So she was like, no, ma'am, no. And even if they don't die, even
00:02:19
if they don't. You can still pick their
00:02:20
pockets. They're not going to remember.
00:02:22
Not only that, but if they're taken to their camp to be, you
00:02:27
know, healed, fixed up, whatever, you really think
00:02:30
they're going to go back and look for whatever was in their
00:02:33
pockets? They are probably just really
00:02:34
care. What was in my?
00:02:36
Pocket. They're just glad to be alive.
00:02:38
Be honest. They're just glad to be alive.
00:02:40
Well, you know what? Honestly, probably they do care
00:02:42
because if they have something in their pocket, then that means
00:02:45
it's something extremely important because you're not
00:02:48
taking everything with you. Like you're not taking a $20
00:02:50
bill and some pennies. You taking like a wedding ring
00:02:54
or? Your like a portrait of your
00:02:56
child or necklace so. You will start to once you get
00:03:02
healed, you'll be looking for it.
00:03:04
Yeah, but just like that woman she picked through Jamie's
00:03:07
pocket, she saw the portrait. She was like, oh, this is of no
00:03:10
value to me. I'm going to throw it down on
00:03:12
the ground. Just.
00:03:13
Put it in his pocket. Let him die with it.
00:03:15
Yeah, but The thing is, she she was messing with the wrong one,
00:03:19
messing with the wrong one. Now we had this conversation
00:03:23
about Jamie and his nine lives. He's a cat.
00:03:27
Listen, how many? Like how?
00:03:30
Many I know you will how. Many even I don't even know if I
00:03:36
can remember all the lives. It could be someone he was a
00:03:39
kid, it could be one even almost died when he was a kid, right
00:03:43
so. But to have your hand go have a
00:03:49
sore go through your hand all the way to.
00:03:51
The OH. So, but the good thing about
00:03:55
this is in the episode when Claire, when she does the
00:04:01
surgery to repair his hand, in the books, she has to actually
00:04:05
take his finger. So he's literally, I can't
00:04:08
remember what is this? So he's literally like this now
00:04:13
because she has to take the finger.
00:04:15
Which hand? I think it's the left hand
00:04:18
because it's the it's the hand that was damaged before.
00:04:21
OK, So yeah, she's. Not look, it's not that
00:04:23
important. I mean, no, it's OK.
00:04:29
It's OK. I'm just speaking on Claire's
00:04:31
behalf. Yeah, but yeah.
00:04:37
But OK, so let's talk about this first Battle of Saratoga.
00:04:42
Jamie gets injured. Like we said, he wasn't supposed
00:04:44
to be there. Captain, was it Colonel Morgan?
00:04:48
Captain Morgan? Colonel Morgan?
00:04:49
I think Captain Morgan, maybe we need a drink.
00:04:53
And Colonel Morgan against troops were not supposed to
00:04:58
answer the fray. They did.
00:05:00
And it turns out it made the difference, you know, And it's
00:05:03
one of those things where Jamie and Claire, they always talk
00:05:07
about the little things that they try to do to change
00:05:09
history. And it's like the big stuff they
00:05:10
can't change, but the little stuff they can.
00:05:12
Just like with the Battle of pressing pans in the Battle of
00:05:17
colliding, some people were able to make it home from Clan
00:05:21
Fraser. They didn't die.
00:05:23
They were able to, you know, that's just a small change they
00:05:25
were able to do, just like here, they were able to save.
00:05:29
So was that did they really make a change or was the change
00:05:33
already there? And see, that's the thing about
00:05:36
time travel like. So I.
00:05:40
What came first? So like they say, they're making
00:05:43
these little changes. Maybe they always made those
00:05:45
little changes and see, that's the hard.
00:05:49
Part I don't know. I know.
00:05:51
Like we said in the last episode, if this was one of
00:05:54
those time travel things where, you know, you change something
00:05:58
different in it, go off, it goes off into another branch
00:06:01
multiverse, you know, for Marvel fans or whatever, something like
00:06:05
that, then it would be different.
00:06:07
But I don't think it works that way in this show.
00:06:11
And I think just this, you know, those are the small things.
00:06:15
Would they have been able to stop the battle altogether?
00:06:17
I don't think that would. Think so, but I'm like even
00:06:19
those small things. Do we know that those small
00:06:22
things already had happened? I think if they looked through
00:06:28
history books. But they, they had, you
00:06:31
understand, So it's like they might have been able to single
00:06:34
big information. They know the big things that
00:06:37
happened, the little things. They don't know what happened,
00:06:40
which could have already happened because they were
00:06:42
already meant to be there to do it.
00:06:45
That's possible, but it it's also possible that maybe a
00:06:48
couple of thousand men did survive because of that one,
00:06:52
because of Jamie being on, you know, the the sniper unit.
00:06:57
I can't remember what. They called him, but which then
00:06:59
does change the time. Like I'm speaking like we're in
00:07:04
marble. This is a whole different.
00:07:05
There. Is there is no multiverse, there
00:07:08
is no this this is the sacred time that he saved does change
00:07:14
things, but maybe that person has already been saved.
00:07:17
So that's the hard part. It could be what I'm saying.
00:07:21
So you know what? But you know what?
00:07:22
It's not explaining. It's not important.
00:07:24
So we. Know, but I mean, just like
00:07:27
Claire said of back in I think it was season 6 when she was
00:07:31
trying to do the when she was trying to make the penicillin
00:07:35
and she told Brianna, she said every person that I save here is
00:07:39
a small change. So maybe it's just like these
00:07:42
little small things because they're so I don't want to say
00:07:46
insignificant because I'm sure to the person whose life she
00:07:49
saved that was significant, but it's not significant enough to
00:07:54
make a major change like maybe these.
00:07:56
These people living and their kids living, and then their kids
00:07:59
living and their kids living there is significant.
00:08:02
It may not. Well, I'm OK, We're not going to
00:08:07
say they're insignificant. What I'm saying is they need to
00:08:10
be so that they need to be so they can still stay alive
00:08:13
because they don't mess up what's happening in the world.
00:08:15
I'm saying those people probably aren't important enough that
00:08:18
they don't have anything. And then with changing and their
00:08:21
future ancestors don't have anything, like there's no, you
00:08:26
know, current president or their descendants.
00:08:29
Yeah, cure cancer. That's just not going to happen
00:08:32
with that line. And that's how they were able to
00:08:34
save that line. Because like we said, when it
00:08:37
comes to time traveling and certain things, a lot of this
00:08:41
stuff is fixed points, even when Jamie and Claire tried to change
00:08:44
things in France. It always self corrected to do
00:08:48
what it was supposed to do. So I, I think, I don't know,
00:08:53
there has to be some kind of balance.
00:08:55
Even though even Jamie being alive but he maybe he was always
00:09:00
going to be alive because it was always Claire coming back and
00:09:04
them doing this. See.
00:09:05
OK, now I'm sorry everyone. It's OK, We're, we're just
00:09:09
trying to figure this thing out because time travel is one of
00:09:13
those things. Time is a construct.
00:09:15
But anyway, we meet Benedict Arnold in this episode.
00:09:20
Yes, I like when she throws in historical feeding.
00:09:24
Yes. And then it's so interesting
00:09:27
with this because Benedict Arnold, of course, you know,
00:09:29
he's on the rebel side and this is how Claire meets him because
00:09:34
he he is also maybe not a great healer, but he also does, you
00:09:41
know, triage for people in his camp.
00:09:44
And he comes looking for, I think it was Sincona bark, but
00:09:48
he comes looking for herbs and she's able to exchange.
00:09:52
And this is when she realizes who's who he is.
00:09:55
And she's telling Jamie she was like, so he's on our side right
00:09:59
now, but there's something that happens that makes him turn.
00:10:04
And his name will forever be synonymous with being a traitor,
00:10:09
even 200 years from now. And it's so, it's so interesting
00:10:13
because a lot of times when we do meet these characters, like
00:10:15
when we met Benedict Arnold in this episode, very courteous,
00:10:19
very gentlemanly, very like, very affable, very much a
00:10:24
likable person. So then you start to wonder,
00:10:26
what is it that's going to make him turn?
00:10:29
And then later on, after the Second Battle of Saratoga
00:10:32
happens, you know, he leads the charge to shoot Simon Fraser,
00:10:38
Jamie's second cousin. Simon is shot and then he leads
00:10:42
the charge to go overtake the Fort.
00:10:45
Now in the midst of all of that, he gets hurt again and he talks
00:10:48
to Claire about this injury that he had during a battle years
00:10:52
back. So now he's re injured this leg.
00:10:54
And not only that, the what do they call the general?
00:10:59
They call him Granny Gates, I think because he's so old.
00:11:03
But General Gates and Benedict Arnold apparently have this long
00:11:07
running feud between themselves. And he's sitting on the, you
00:11:13
know, he's sitting on the stretcher and he's telling
00:11:15
Claire about how Gates will never acknowledge him for the
00:11:19
great things that he does in battle.
00:11:21
He was like, you know, my, my name will be lost to history.
00:11:24
I won't be remembered. It's not fair, is it?
00:11:27
You know, is it wrong of me to feel this way or to feel anger
00:11:32
and animosity towards him? And Claire was like, she told
00:11:35
James, she said I had to tell him the truth.
00:11:37
But I I hope that's not what sets him on his path to turn his
00:11:41
coat. And I'm like, no, I don't think
00:11:43
it is. It's, it's the way that Gates.
00:11:44
Yeah, it's already there. It's already so.
00:11:47
You just can't be mistreating, you know?
00:11:49
You just gave them. You a nerd?
00:11:51
Yeah, you did. But you, you know, you can't
00:11:53
miss mistreat people because. So now he's thinking his name
00:11:57
will never be known. And it's going to be known
00:12:02
forever. And they were.
00:12:06
Very notorious, which is bad, which is sad, but OK.
00:12:12
So I want to talk about William. But before then I just looked up
00:12:18
and Claire's laying next to. No, we're not going to have you.
00:12:23
Already know where I was going to go.
00:12:25
We're not about to have this conversation.
00:12:26
They are nowhere near death, I think, Jamie.
00:12:28
I know about the same, you know, that's about, that's what I need
00:12:32
at the end, but OK. No, she's.
00:12:34
Everyone, she's just laying next to him and you know.
00:12:36
No. Holding him.
00:12:38
No, she keeps talking about she wants his notebook ending.
00:12:42
No, OK, Jamie and Claire don't need to be.
00:12:45
But I can see it. OK.
00:12:46
OK, William. I'm just giving her this look
00:12:54
just for those of y'all that like why is she so quiet 'cause
00:12:57
I'm giving her this look because we are not going to have a
00:13:00
notebook ending. We are not going to have them
00:13:02
die and just no, it's going to have.
00:13:05
Old age, everyone must die, but everybody them die together
00:13:09
anyway. OK, let's talk about William a
00:13:11
little bit, because first, out of Saratoga, William learns
00:13:17
about battle. He learns about war.
00:13:19
He learns that it's not all pretty and glorified the way
00:13:22
that, you know, I I think part of the problem with war is men
00:13:28
romanticize it in a sense. Like it's this, it's this thing
00:13:33
you go off and you're fighting for your country.
00:13:36
And, you know, they just, yeah, they make it seem just like so
00:13:40
glorious. And then I.
00:13:42
Want to say this we do that with everything that.
00:13:45
That's. Why Marriage, having kids, war,
00:13:51
sometimes life and then when you're in the midst of it, it's
00:13:53
not that's. That is true.
00:13:56
That is true. But in this instance he learned
00:14:01
the hard way he did in the last battle.
00:14:03
So I think he was, I think he was better prepared in this one
00:14:07
also, because I think this is like, I can't remember the
00:14:12
timelines, but it's been several months.
00:14:14
They they kind of cut. They do a quick time jump to the
00:14:17
second battle and you do see William there on the battlefield
00:14:21
with Simon Fraser. Simon Fraser, of course, being
00:14:24
the general, he's on his force and he's just kind of telling
00:14:27
everybody what to do. And you have the rebels who are
00:14:30
coming to fight. Jamie is one of those rebels,
00:14:33
and they're exchanging gunfire back and forth.
00:14:36
Now Jamie realizes his cousin is on the other side of the
00:14:39
battlefield. But of course he can't tell
00:14:41
anybody in his camp that because they might start thinking, oh,
00:14:44
OK, well, are you really trying to be here or are you a spy,
00:14:48
that sort of thing? I mean, you do have family that
00:14:50
fight on opposite sides of war. And of course, this is not the
00:14:54
first time that that's happened for Jamie.
00:14:56
But while they're exchanging gunfire, an order is given.
00:15:02
Matter of fact, I think it was Benedict Arnold who gave the
00:15:04
order to kill Simon Fraser. Like, hey, if we do that, then
00:15:10
we can, you know, we could probably finish this battle
00:15:15
fairly quickly. And so that's what happened.
00:15:17
Simon Fraser does get shot. But the the crazy thing, and I
00:15:22
know this is not going to be a thing, but it was still close
00:15:26
enough. Jamie is trying to try to keep
00:15:30
Simon out of harm's way. You know, Jamie's a good shot.
00:15:33
He is the one that is ordered. Fraser shoot the general, shoot
00:15:37
the general. And of course he can't really
00:15:40
shoot Simon. So he shoots towards Simon, but
00:15:43
he aims at one of the other soldiers and he shoots that
00:15:47
soldiers hat off. And when the soldier turns
00:15:50
around and look, it is William. Boy, you almost killed your son
00:15:55
like. I was like, you know, what?
00:15:56
If I was Jamie at that point, I'm.
00:15:58
Gonna put that gun down. I can't.
00:15:59
I would. Have pretended I got shot or
00:16:02
something. King you that just can't.
00:16:04
It's too close. Because you just will net now.
00:16:08
You will never know if we continue having battles like
00:16:11
this. It's like at any point he can
00:16:14
keep shoot you or you gonna shoot him.
00:16:15
And then you good at your job, so you good at war.
00:16:20
So that pretty much means William is dead.
00:16:24
But I don't think, I don't think he was really trying to kill
00:16:27
whoever was there. He was just trying to make it
00:16:29
seem like, OK, yes, I took a shot at General Fraser and he's,
00:16:34
you know, he. Still shot him and even the even
00:16:38
not back then. Even a small wound can turn into
00:16:41
death. This is so it was too close to
00:16:46
that. There have been a lot of close
00:16:47
calls and I was just like, at this point, Jamie needs to
00:16:51
demand, OK, you know what? I cannot be in this war anymore.
00:16:55
I know he can't tell people that William is his son but he can at
00:16:59
least say yo even though we're opposite sides.
00:17:03
Like that's the son of my best mate.
00:17:06
Right. So I got some relatives on the
00:17:08
other side and I wanna say who the relatives are.
00:17:10
We are, of course, again, but. I mean, they probably already
00:17:15
figured out that General Simon Fraser is a relative, a distant
00:17:21
relative of Jamie. Well, they do when they ask him
00:17:23
to take his body home. So Well, yeah, because at that
00:17:26
point, they say Simon has realized that Jamie was there
00:17:30
and he was like, OK, I want to see him again.
00:17:32
Which leads to a very poignant part of the episode because
00:17:38
Jamie and Claire, they do go over to see Simon before he
00:17:42
succumbs his injuries. And, you know, you get a little
00:17:45
bit of these two people who are on opposite sides of this war,
00:17:50
and they get to reminisce about their days as kids chasing after
00:17:53
the older boys. And it's a very bittersweet
00:17:56
moment, which I like to see because of course, we haven't.
00:17:59
Jamie hasn't had any other family except for who's with him
00:18:03
in North Carolina. You know, all his other Scottish
00:18:06
relatives he hasn't seen in years.
00:18:09
So it's nice that he's able to connect while he's doing that
00:18:13
inside, Claire is outside and of course she, she runs into
00:18:16
William and she realizes that William is kind of close to the
00:18:22
general and she apology, you know, she says, I'm so sorry for
00:18:25
your loss. And he was like, thank you.
00:18:26
And he was like, oh, wait, did you mean the battle?
00:18:28
And I was like, Oh yeah, you are kind of losing 2 things at once.
00:18:31
Because, you know, the, the British for that battle, they
00:18:35
did surrender because, you know, they, they got overpowered.
00:18:40
But it's so interesting because we talked about Jamie and how
00:18:46
his, his oath was to not see William as an adult because, you
00:18:52
know, supposedly, yeah, because of how, how close they look.
00:18:57
And of, of course, we said it. You can't really tell it in the
00:19:01
show, but in the books, they're, they're almost identical.
00:19:04
But he's getting ready to leave the tent after Simon passes.
00:19:09
And one of the other soldiers is talking to William about how he
00:19:13
was like, where's your hat? And he was like, yeah, some, I I
00:19:16
forgot what time he used. Will you?
00:19:17
Yeah. Like, basically, someone robbed
00:19:20
me of my hat. And Jamie kind of stops and he
00:19:22
turns around. He gives the hat to William.
00:19:24
And he was like, he keeps his head down except for he looks at
00:19:28
him once eye to eye and he's like, I believe I owe you a hat,
00:19:31
Sir. And he bows his head like, yeah,
00:19:34
I'm the one that shot you. And it's like, you see all these
00:19:38
emotions on Williams face because one, this is Mac.
00:19:41
This is a form of groom. And, you know, this is also his
00:19:45
father's dearest friend. This is also someone who I think
00:19:50
even though he doesn't remember Jamie a lot, he does respect,
00:19:54
you know, when he saw Claire at Fort Ticonderoga and realized
00:19:59
that she was a rebel, you know, he had kind of feelings about
00:20:02
that too, because he was like, these are people who I know.
00:20:04
These are people who have been nice to me.
00:20:05
They've treated me with respect, but they're rebels.
00:20:08
So you know it it kind of puts. Doubt in his mind because of
00:20:12
course, when you're in that kind of war, the only thing you're
00:20:16
thinking of is the people on the opposite side of you.
00:20:19
They're enemies. You don't think about them in
00:20:21
terms of people that you know, people that you love, people
00:20:24
that you respect, that sort of thing.
00:20:25
So you're looking at he's looking at Jamie with all of
00:20:28
this and then to also realize Jamie almost killed him.
00:20:33
It's just like I was sitting there like I need y'all to hurry
00:20:36
up and, and, and push this part of the storyline along.
00:20:39
I need wings to know I. Do too and I I can't wait for
00:20:42
that episode. Oh, I think it's coming.
00:20:44
So I, I think we'll probably get that like early in the next half
00:20:50
of the the show. I think it'll be before the
00:20:54
midway point. It has to be because again,
00:20:58
I've, I've Cotton, I've gotten caught up with the books, so I
00:21:02
know kind of where things are going to happen.
00:21:05
There's so much that they have to do story wise.
00:21:09
And even yeah, and even some of the stuff that I thought they
00:21:13
were not going to do in the next part of the OR rather at any
00:21:18
part of the rest of the show, they're actually bringing some
00:21:21
of those stories in based on what I've seen in the trailer
00:21:25
and the few clips they've already released for episode 9.
00:21:29
So I was like, oh, I have to rethink my, I have to rethink
00:21:32
this whole thing now. Like, what are they doing?
00:21:35
What are they not? But based on episode titles, I
00:21:39
think the William and Jamie connection will be revealed.
00:21:44
I would say probably maybe around episode 2 or three.
00:21:49
OK. Yeah, see, I didn't look at
00:21:51
episode or. Episode 10 or 11, I think, yeah.
00:21:54
OK, wait a minute. Yeah, next one is 9, so 10.
00:21:59
OK. So yeah.
00:22:02
It's time we we've been, you know, sneaking him in at
00:22:06
different points, but now it's full-fledged.
00:22:08
He needs to know who his family is and then we can get over all
00:22:12
the issues that's going to happen when he finds out.
00:22:15
And then we can get to them being a family because before,
00:22:18
before this ends. Because woo.
00:22:23
But it's going to be the only part about it.
00:22:26
Yeah. And that, that's what I was
00:22:28
going to say, cousin. He's met his.
00:22:30
Sister and didn't even know that it was his sister and now she's
00:22:33
not even in the same time period, right.
00:22:35
So and and then how are they going to explain that to him?
00:22:39
Right. That's what I'm saying.
00:22:40
Like where'd she go? She can't come to Visa, I can't
00:22:42
write her a letter, right? Well, he knows that she's in
00:22:45
Boston because that's what she told her when she met her.
00:22:48
And what if he tries to go to Boston looking for her and
00:22:50
they're like, she's not here. No, Sir, she's not.
00:22:56
So I don't know. I just, I need them.
00:23:01
So my prediction is everyone, everyone's coming back to this
00:23:05
timeline. I mean, not timeline, but this
00:23:08
time. So Brianna will be back.
00:23:12
The whole family will be back together.
00:23:14
I mean, I told you what needs and and I'm not.
00:23:16
I'm not even. Going, I'm not even going the
00:23:19
books, but we got to get them from what were the 70s,
00:23:23
nineteen, 80, the 80s or the 80s.
00:23:26
We need to get them back so. Well, I mean, like I said, they
00:23:30
probably changed since. Mandy is good, her heart is
00:23:33
solid. They probably changed some stuff
00:23:37
from the book. So I can't say like I don't know
00:23:40
what direction they're going in because of course they're ending
00:23:42
next season. So a lot of the stuff that's
00:23:45
happened in the books, they're going to either have to cut it
00:23:47
out or they're going to have to make some some like major
00:23:50
changes. So I wouldn't even yeah, I would
00:23:54
expect that they closure. We will.
00:23:56
We will need closure and. Yeah, you can't get closer if
00:24:00
they in the 1980s. Right.
00:24:02
Especially with William like they will need she will need to.
00:24:04
Oh my gosh this is too much. And not only that, you.
00:24:09
And who's going to come to Ian and Rachel's wedding?
00:24:11
Well. Not well.
00:24:13
Not only that, but I mean, you really think that Brianna is
00:24:17
going to just sit back and let Rodger go look for Jeremiah
00:24:22
alone? Well, not alone, because she's
00:24:25
not. Alone and honestly, she needs to
00:24:28
stay. They have a kid like this
00:24:32
traveling back and forth. I'm trying to say like we all
00:24:34
are, I know, but at the end, at the end at the I said the end
00:24:40
when William and all that find out.
00:24:41
But right now with what's happening, she needs to say, I
00:24:45
think they they take for granted that the traveling, it's like
00:24:49
traveling, OK, we don't really have many, you know, plane
00:24:53
crashes, you know, cars. But sometimes I think we take
00:24:56
advantage that the safety of things and it it's, it's still
00:25:02
not safe to travel. You don't know how you're going
00:25:04
to travel, where you're going to travel, when you going to
00:25:07
travel, so we can't just go back and forth and you.
00:25:09
Don't even know what's happening to their bodies when they're
00:25:11
going. On Because something could be
00:25:13
happening to your body. We don't even know.
00:25:15
I think it is because if you think about the way that Brianna
00:25:18
and Rodger discuss it, it almost feels like they're being pulled
00:25:22
apart and reassembled. So that's that's horrible take
00:25:27
some toll on your body it. Does so, you know, she needs to
00:25:31
wait and see what happens 1st and then they can get reunited
00:25:36
with her, with the son, and then they go back and see.
00:25:40
Well, there's no reason why I see your parents either.
00:25:41
So now something has to push them to go back.
00:25:44
Yeah. But I So my thing is, if Rodger
00:25:49
is gone for too long, she will go.
00:25:52
She'll probably go because. I take Mandy with you because
00:25:54
you have no family. You have no family to keep.
00:25:58
And not only that, she's not. I don't think she would leave
00:26:02
Mandy behind. No, I'll leave it with.
00:26:03
Grandma so I will come back and say hey I'm missing my owns our
00:26:09
family I need y'all help. And you know, Jamie would be
00:26:12
like, oh, OK, I'm. Down for the cross.
00:26:15
But she can't come back while they're in Scotland, neither
00:26:17
that one actually that girl, because she because they're in
00:26:21
Scotland. OK, see, we just piece together.
00:26:25
So that's how they coming back. I love it.
00:26:28
That could work. I mean, because here's the
00:26:29
thing. Jim is missing.
00:26:32
Roger wants to go look for him. If Roger is gone for too long,
00:26:35
she's probably going to assume that either Rodger can't get
00:26:40
back Rodger and Jim. Let me say it like that Rodger
00:26:43
and Jim can't get back, or she's going to assume Rodger could be
00:26:48
killed because it think about it, if Rob Cameron and we still
00:26:51
got to figure out how Rob Cameron is able to get through
00:26:53
the stumps. But if Rob, if they come across
00:26:57
Rob Cameron, if Rob was crazy enough or ambitious enough,
00:27:04
whatever you want to call it, to take Jim through the stones to
00:27:07
try to find the French gold, you don't think he'd be willing to
00:27:11
do whatever is needed in order to make sure that he's not
00:27:16
thwarted in that. So if it comes to if it comes to
00:27:19
killing Rodger and Buck, he very may well try to do that.
00:27:25
And like you said in the last, I think it was the last episode we
00:27:28
talked about, we don't know who Rob Cameron is.
00:27:32
We don't know how he's able to get through the stones.
00:27:34
We don't know who's waiting for him on the other side.
00:27:37
Because like you said, if people are aware of time travelers, you
00:27:42
don't know what kind of family they have left behind or who
00:27:46
could be like. And we forget that.
00:27:48
And then even like the people you save may not necessarily be
00:27:55
great people. And we we learned that already.
00:27:59
So you just never know what impact you have done to someone
00:28:02
else. And they're on the sidelines
00:28:04
watching and ready to strike. So, and I think that's what
00:28:08
Cameron is someone who's been watching the sunlight since
00:28:11
ready to strike. And we haven't figured out who
00:28:13
or who what family member or is it him?
00:28:17
Maybe he was from the past too and they did something to him
00:28:20
like we don't know and they didn't realize they did
00:28:22
something to because now he wants we know binges and gold.
00:28:27
But I'll just say this. If he traveled and he took Jim
00:28:32
back to where Jamie and Claire are.
00:28:36
And they happen to come across them on their on their travels
00:28:39
through Scotland once they finally get there, because, yes,
00:28:42
they finally make it to Scotland.
00:28:43
But we'll get into that. Yeah.
00:28:44
So then Rob Cameron is a dead man.
00:28:47
So whatever his. Whatever his.
00:28:49
But you know, this all could have been saved if they asked
00:28:52
him where the gold was and he wrote that in the letter where
00:28:54
the gold was and then I was. Wondering when you were going to
00:28:59
bring the? Baby Cameron, gold isn't the
00:29:01
gold. See, that's what I'm saying.
00:29:02
We don't really know. Yeah, that's what we had to
00:29:04
figure out. Yeah.
00:29:05
He's, they're thinking this goal, but he could just be pure,
00:29:08
you know, revenge. Could be, but either way it goes
00:29:14
he need to. Die, you know, so I don't know.
00:29:17
He need to die, he needs to be very badly hurt.
00:29:19
He bonnet have any other kids? And probably.
00:29:25
I'm sorry, I mean, I'm, I'm just thinking of, you know.
00:29:28
Of other, yeah, I don't think so, but I could have.
00:29:31
Got affected by this? I don't know, but he was a
00:29:34
horrible man, so you can't be like, Oh my daddy it.
00:29:38
What I mean, some people. Yeah, you could, because they
00:29:42
could have lied about the situation and then he went to
00:29:45
follow them and then realize what were they, they not where
00:29:48
they are, how they just disappeared, right?
00:29:50
And I don't know. Right, right.
00:29:53
But so I, I don't know, I, I think Brianna at some point may
00:30:00
follow, especially if Rodger doesn't come like, but it's one
00:30:04
of those things like how long do you wait?
00:30:09
Because even if Rob Cameron made it through the stones with Jim,
00:30:12
made it to Inverness, she's going to shit.
00:30:14
In a while because like he said in the episode, I got to get on
00:30:19
a ship and ship a ship to north. Carolina is going to take
00:30:22
months. Right.
00:30:23
So literally she got to sit around for months.
00:30:27
What do you where do you say? Like Cameron took a leave of
00:30:31
absence from work? Like where is he at work?
00:30:33
And not only that. But luckily D Fax is not around
00:30:38
at this time to be like the boy is not attending school, but
00:30:41
people are going to be looking for Roger.
00:30:43
Roger, I mean if. They can say he they went to the
00:30:46
states to go visit family members.
00:30:48
But they were having issues. But we've been separated.
00:30:51
We just divided the children in half.
00:30:53
But I just don't. Yeah, but unfortunately in the
00:30:57
80s and do that a lot of. Times so you can't.
00:31:00
So you and the said that you have to wait that long.
00:31:02
Like you literally have to wait. And we know Brianna and she is
00:31:05
afraid. But then what if this happens?
00:31:09
Like what if he did go through the stones and then he realized,
00:31:14
I don't like this plan, Cameron, go through the stones, everyone.
00:31:17
And he said I don't like this plan and come back through the
00:31:20
stones. No.
00:31:21
I don't but listen to this. He go through the stones a week
00:31:25
later go back through the stones to 1980s cause all kind of
00:31:32
issues. Brianna can't even tell Roger
00:31:36
until he come back and say I couldn't find our son and I'd be
00:31:39
like, your son came home like a week later, OK, Cameron's in
00:31:43
prison. We already had a trial and
00:31:44
everything. We just been waiting for you to
00:31:46
come back and we just couldn't send word.
00:31:51
You know what, they're kind of look that might happen.
00:31:53
You see what I'm saying? And you'd be like, well, I
00:31:55
wasted all this time. I miss.
00:31:58
Yeah. Your kids now are like seniors
00:32:00
in high school. You know what?
00:32:01
No, we are not. No, no, because she definitely
00:32:06
would not let him. No, but.
00:32:08
Mandy had a ballet recital you missed.
00:32:11
It was great. That was in May, but we figured
00:32:15
you were going to come home in August for the first week of
00:32:17
school. No, I just.
00:32:21
You see that's see, but that stuff could happen.
00:32:24
I know because it it's so everything is so uncertain.
00:32:27
Yeah. And then the traveling back then
00:32:31
will take time. It takes time.
00:32:34
Yeah, because you can't just get on a a plane and fly back to
00:32:38
North Carolina and try to find the gold, I mean.
00:32:42
You go to North Carolina and it's traveling North Carolina,
00:32:46
then it's traveling back home. But OK back home.
00:32:50
But this is the thing that I don't think Rob Cameron gets.
00:32:55
So let's say he takes Jim through the stones.
00:32:57
Let's say he gets on a boat in Inverness.
00:33:00
He makes it all the way back to North Carolina and he goes
00:33:03
towards The Cave. You.
00:33:07
Well, actually, no, the yeah, the goat is in North Carolina.
00:33:11
You actually think that Jeremiah is not going to try to get away
00:33:16
and go find his granddad? You.
00:33:19
You are putting yourself too close to danger because you
00:33:23
don't know that Jamie and Claire have left.
00:33:25
You don't know that they're in New York.
00:33:27
That's what I'm saying, he may change his mind and that throws
00:33:29
off the time it just you. Can't.
00:33:32
But that's something you can't just change.
00:33:34
You don't went through some stones and went 200 years into
00:33:37
the past. You can't just oh, I don't like
00:33:38
this, I'm going to go back. No, you got to commit.
00:33:42
You do got to commit and then you don't know when you're going
00:33:45
to be placed like where, what time you going to be placed.
00:33:50
If he doesn't know the insurance and outs of time travel, we.
00:33:53
Don't even know the insurance and outs of time travel and we
00:33:55
they don't even know the is and out of time travel.
00:33:58
That's true, but it works for them.
00:33:59
But we. Don't know, but we don't.
00:34:00
Again, we don't know who Rob Cameron is.
00:34:03
He may have had experience, that's he may know.
00:34:05
Just like. David Duncan We may know more,
00:34:08
because I think Gaylis knew a whole lot more than she.
00:34:10
Had a whole notebook of research that she had done.
00:34:14
Real research. Yes.
00:34:16
And so everyone else is just going through don't know, but it
00:34:21
works for them. We just don't know.
00:34:22
Because if I go through the stones, I'm not going to end up
00:34:24
where I'm supposed to be. Because you're going to be
00:34:26
thinking of all kinds of things, right?
00:34:29
So and and that's how. It but it works it and it works
00:34:32
for them and that's, but that's why we have missing travelers
00:34:36
because they didn't know, because they didn't know, they
00:34:37
didn't know. I mean, at least Roger and
00:34:39
Brianna, at least they know the basics.
00:34:42
They know we have to focus on us, but they learned that from
00:34:46
that one time when they they didn't go nowhere and they had
00:34:52
to say, what were you thinking of we.
00:34:54
Were thinking of. Home.
00:34:55
We were thinking of home so clearly.
00:34:58
So clearly. We need to be, so we have to be
00:35:00
thinking. Right, like where we need to be?
00:35:03
Well, when Mandy needed to leave, we had to think we need
00:35:06
to go to the future 'cause we need to save our baby.
00:35:11
So that's their mindset. So they ended up in the future.
00:35:14
We we need to go find Uncle Joe so he can fix me.
00:35:17
Right. So you got to, you have to like
00:35:19
put it on the right channel. Right now, since I mentioned
00:35:23
that, I will say this as far as what happens in the books, I'm
00:35:29
not going to spoil what happens in the books because again, they
00:35:31
could change it in the show. But one of the things that I
00:35:34
will say is that we do see Joe Abernathy again in the books.
00:35:39
And I really hope that they bring him back in the show, even
00:35:42
if it's just for an episode, because yes, Brianna has Fiona
00:35:48
there in Scotland, but Joe is like family as well.
00:35:52
And when all of this is happening, she does need
00:35:55
somebody to kind of lean on. And she does reach out to Joe.
00:35:59
So I hope we do get to see him again in the back half of Season
00:36:04
7. That would be nice.
00:36:05
But I will say this her her having to watch Rodger go
00:36:10
through the stones. That was tough.
00:36:12
That was tough and 'cause you, I just feel like we're about to
00:36:17
see a whole different side of Brianna.
00:36:19
Because you don't. You don't.
00:36:21
You don't see like you you. But I will say this if they
00:36:26
going to be OK, but I will say this, if you look at, if you pay
00:36:30
attention to the way Mandy is behaving, I kind of feel like
00:36:35
for me, that's telling me everything is going to be OK
00:36:38
'cause she's like my dad. I mean, and she's like, she's
00:36:41
not, she's not worried, she's not crying.
00:36:44
She's like, this is a child who has full confidence that her dad
00:36:48
is going to find her brother and bring him home.
00:36:51
She's like. But she could have a mixture of
00:36:54
the traveling and Jamie's. Yeah, we we talked about that
00:36:59
shiny. So we talked about that.
00:37:02
So she she. Couldn't you should know like it
00:37:05
it's going to like she just couldn't have feelings like
00:37:07
this. This will work out.
00:37:09
I mean, I don't know why they up in arms right now, but I get why
00:37:12
they up in arms because I'm not hearing yeah, but I know that
00:37:16
it's going to be OK, yeah, that it will work out.
00:37:19
So. So that's all that's, that's all
00:37:21
we can we can do. Let's just hope it works out,
00:37:23
hope Rob Cameron gets what's coming to him because.
00:37:26
Hey, because it's causing a whole lot of mess.
00:37:30
And for what? I don't know and and that that
00:37:32
that is that reason better be great.
00:37:35
It better be not from not from the rider.
00:37:40
It has to be great. Like I need him to be having
00:37:42
some real. You need to I need you to be
00:37:45
coming out there strong. You want to do this.
00:37:47
You come out there strong and say this is the reason why I
00:37:49
did. Right.
00:37:50
And stick to it. And it like you said, even
00:37:54
though there is no good reason, there is no good reason, but
00:37:58
there could be a good motivation this this polite that he might
00:38:01
have been, he might have said, I mean, because he did make that
00:38:04
he did make that comment to them about his divorce.
00:38:08
And he was like, you know, the people, the lawyers with the
00:38:10
most money, you know, they tend to win these things.
00:38:14
Maybe he's thinking of the French gold because he wants it
00:38:17
to try to get his son back. You can understand that.
00:38:20
You can't even empathize with that.
00:38:22
Kidnap another kid for your kid. But you know, I I got but I can
00:38:26
I can see where that might in his head make sense.
00:38:31
So if that's it, I might be a little more lenient.
00:38:34
But for the most part now, because you could have just
00:38:38
because the, the way you went about it was all really sneaky
00:38:42
and really devious. And yeah, I just, I don't, I
00:38:46
don't like it. So yeah.
00:38:48
So we'll wait and see how that goes.
00:38:53
But like we said, Jamie and Claire and Ian, they are
00:38:57
actually able to go back to Scotland because when Simon
00:39:00
Fraser dies, they, you know, the British has already been
00:39:05
defeated. So they're working out terms of
00:39:07
surrender. Well, one of the terms that they
00:39:10
bring to General Gates is that Simon Fraser has always
00:39:15
expressed his opinion that if he fell on the battlefield, he
00:39:18
would like to be buried back home in Scotland.
00:39:21
We are requesting as part of our terms of surrender for his
00:39:25
kinsmen to take him back to Scotland because his men loved
00:39:28
him and they they respected him and they wanted him to have his
00:39:32
last wishes fulfilled. So Jamie, Claire and Ian get to
00:39:37
go back to Scott. Ian, during this episode finally
00:39:42
declares, well, I won't say he declares.
00:39:44
He kind of makes it known to Rachel.
00:39:46
That he had. Saying for but he wasn't like, I
00:39:49
love you, you know, but. Basically like kiss someone back
00:39:53
then. Yeah, that's that's A and.
00:39:55
He's not. He's not a man just to take
00:39:57
liberty. That that is.
00:39:58
True, so that means him kissing her.
00:40:01
It meant something. And he was.
00:40:03
That meant he was. Ready and even though she
00:40:05
slapped him, they, they had a little conversation and then
00:40:09
they they came back together again.
00:40:11
So that's and she he left. He left the roller with him, his
00:40:16
dog, so yeah, so. That kind of tells you.
00:40:20
That that that does tell you. And if that didn't tell you?
00:40:29
We really thought we was done with this dude.
00:40:33
Rachel is taking Rolo for a walk.
00:40:35
Rolo find someone that he's like very comfortable with and he
00:40:39
goes up and greets him in his motherfucking arch bug.
00:40:44
And if that didn't tell you that Ian loves you, he was like Bug
00:40:51
confirms it. Because she was like, Oh no, he
00:40:54
belongs to a friend who's gone abroad.
00:40:56
I'm just watching until he comes back.
00:40:58
Oh, your friend must really love you to leave his beast with you
00:41:01
or to leave his dog with you. And the way that she just kind
00:41:05
of smiled, Archbald was like, Yep.
00:41:07
Yep, I'm coming back. That's what I'm waiting for.
00:41:09
I was like. I'll see you guys in like a few
00:41:11
months. It might be longer than that
00:41:15
because we don't know, we we don't know how long the journey
00:41:17
is from New York to Scotland. We don't.
00:41:20
We don't. Want them to It can't be a turn
00:41:23
around and the sad. Part of you.
00:41:24
You've been gone for years. Bug should be be dying of old
00:41:28
age, but he's going to stay alive until he get his revenge.
00:41:31
That's the. Sad part that is the thing let's
00:41:33
keep. Sitting around, for one, he's
00:41:34
just going to keep watch. So that means again, camera can
00:41:37
be one of those things that they're on the side.
00:41:39
So Bug is on the sidelines constantly watching them.
00:41:45
So he's going to be watching Rachel to see when Ian comes
00:41:50
back. I just need that, man.
00:41:54
I I just need everybody to leave the phrases the fuck alone.
00:41:57
But I think I've been saying I. Am saying has already been
00:42:04
through things I can't take any more I.
00:42:09
Know. For him, because I was anymore
00:42:13
like any other family, we've all been through they they have, but
00:42:17
it's something about Jamie and Claire got each other.
00:42:19
It's like they got you see what I'm saying?
00:42:21
They got but Ian, he got it too. But damn, let him have a happy
00:42:27
just a sliver, you know what I'm saying?
00:42:30
Sliver because if you think about it OK so I've been re
00:42:33
watching all of the old episodes.
00:42:36
I started right after Dragon Con, so back in September I
00:42:40
started all the way from the beginning.
00:42:43
So this week I have been in season 6.
00:42:47
So I'm going through all of the Malva Christie stuff now, and I
00:42:52
was reminded that Ian and Malva slept together only once.
00:42:57
But it was because he felt like at that time, he wasn't ready to
00:43:01
move on from Emily. And he told her he didn't want
00:43:04
to take advantage of her. And he felt like that was the
00:43:06
reason why she accused Jamie, because she was taking it out on
00:43:09
him. You know, like, oh, is she a
00:43:11
woman? Scorn.
00:43:12
And so to think about his his behavior then, like this is a
00:43:18
man who did that. And he immediately felt regret,
00:43:21
like, oh, I'm so sorry. I can't do this to you.
00:43:23
I'm not ready. And most men wouldn't do that,
00:43:26
right? Most men wouldn't do that.
00:43:28
So the fact that he even put himself out there for Rachel,
00:43:32
you know that he's ready to to move forward, especially now
00:43:35
that he knows. You know, I think it's because
00:43:37
he, he knows. He knows that.
00:43:39
He knows that he has fun. Yeah, he knows.
00:43:42
And, and, and so he's he's able to to, to move forward, to find
00:43:49
love. Again.
00:43:50
Then we got bugs just sitting over here in the corner like a
00:43:52
bug. You know what, I just, I just
00:43:54
need him. However, and that's why I
00:43:57
totally at the end on the on the ship, totally miss Jamie's
00:44:02
reaction for being home because I was thinking about Ian because
00:44:05
out Ian left was yeah, when he was young.
00:44:10
He is like being through right, even from in the Caribbean all
00:44:15
the way up to this point. And now you get back to see your
00:44:18
mom and dad and you're back home and your siblings.
00:44:22
So like, I just I don't know. I just was really feeling him.
00:44:25
And then I feel Jamie, too, because it's your homeland and.
00:44:28
You thought you would never get back to Sky.
00:44:30
Never. So especially after, like, they
00:44:33
left the Ridge a year ago, more than a year ago, if I'm not
00:44:38
mistaken. Yeah.
00:44:40
So you've been trying to get back home to Scotland for a year
00:44:46
and now you're finally there, finally home.
00:44:48
So I just. But I was like this, I was just
00:44:50
crying. I was like, Scotland, they're
00:44:52
back in Scotland, They made it to Scotland.
00:44:54
Well, the ship has made it within land sight.
00:45:00
We're not talking like that. They made it whole.
00:45:02
Damn you about to say something about to happen.
00:45:05
I'm. Just he ain't.
00:45:06
Just about to see his mom and dad.
00:45:07
That's what I need when we watch this episode in a few minutes.
00:45:10
I need him to hug his mom and dad.
00:45:14
I want to cry about that and nothing else in between.
00:45:17
Yeah, I I'm just saying them and boats don't do don't do
00:45:21
something. I'm standing next.
00:45:23
But however they see the land, if they need to get off that
00:45:25
damn ship and swim themselves, they can do it.
00:45:27
OK, I have all the faith in the world.
00:45:30
Right? All right, so they're home.
00:45:34
OK, they're home. We're saying they're home.
00:45:36
Scotland. OK, he's not going to be
00:45:38
arrested. They're home it.
00:45:41
Should be because he's been pardoned for literally
00:45:43
everything he's ever done and. That's a lot.
00:45:46
A lot. So yeah, he, he, this should be
00:45:51
a very peaceful. Visit, right?
00:45:54
And that's what I want to see, so OK.
00:45:57
So I think that's pretty much covers this Episode 8, right?
00:46:04
Yeah, 'cause we talked about everything.
00:46:05
Roger made, the point, the Simon Frazier stuff, them seeing
00:46:09
William, Rachel, Archbug. So yeah, we hit all the points.
00:46:15
So what we're about to do is we're going to go and watch
00:46:19
Episode 9 and then we're going to come back and we're going to
00:46:22
record about that. So for now, that's it for our
00:46:26
show. You can find us online at
00:46:27
www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on all
00:46:32
the social media at Phantom Hybrid.
00:46:34
You can chat with us on our Discord channel, you can watch
00:46:36
our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to
00:46:39
us on all major podcast streaming platforms.
00:46:42
Thanks for listening. We hope you join the
00:46:44
conversation next time.