#outlander Jamie's return from the dead results in several shocking revelations and confrontations. Lord John makes a few confessions. William seeks the truth but isn't satisfied with the little answers he receives. Lord John is placed into a dangerous situation. Jamie's success at getting French supporters while overseas gets him noticed by a particular General in charge of the rebel forces. William acts recklessly in light of recent events. Jamie and Claire have a hard conversation. Lord John flees for his life.
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What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode
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of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I am with
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Michelle and we are discussing episode 12, Season 7 of
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Outlander. And Michelle, you said that Lord
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John needed a butt, whooping butt.
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Did you think it was going to be like this?
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No, I didn't. I didn't.
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I didn't think he would. I have mixed feelings all about
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this episode. OK, I do too, but OK, let's and
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I had. Mixed more I yeah, yeah.
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Because I don't know, I just kind of felt, I don't, I don't
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feel, I don't feel like Jamie needed to do that.
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I didn't. I think maybe the first hit I
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get just a reaction of what he said to him.
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And it was like, what? Pardon me?
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And you hit him. And then it should have been
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enough. You see what I'm saying?
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Like we can have a conversation like we owe.
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We not like in our 20s and 30s now we owe right?
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So I think the issue that I had with the way that that whole
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scene came down with, you know, Lower John telling Jamie I've
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had carnal knowledge of your wife and then not really
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expounding on it. Yeah, I think that the problem
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that I had was the way he went about it.
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It's almost like, it's almost like he was not necessarily mad
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at Jamie for coming back, but I feel like in a sense he was kind
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of angry. Like we thought you were dead
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and this happened and now you're alive.
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And now I think part of him does feel guilty about it.
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But again, they didn't know. But I think at the same time, I
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think part of him might feel guilty about it because he might
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have enjoyed it because it wasn't true.
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A traditional, you know, it, it wasn't traditional as far as
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what we were doing. It was out of, it was born out
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of grief. It was born out of.
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Anger, very much of what she said, so he could feel the same
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way, like it. It made him be able to move
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forward and everything. Like it's something that they
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can't actually describe, but it was something they needed at the
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time and it's and it really isn't a sexual thing.
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No, but I think at the same time, it was something that I
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think, like I said, I think Lord John may have enjoyed it because
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it wasn't just the regular, let's just say regular vanilla
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sex, regular missionary sex, regular sex between a man and a
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woman. Like it was something different.
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And because it was something different, I think he enjoyed it
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because we saw from the last episode when he and Claire were
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having the discussion, Lord John is not really used to intimacy
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within a relationship, you know, And I don't know, maybe there
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was something about the fact that he and Claire knew what was
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going on. And not only that, but this is
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somebody who even though this is her husband that he is in love
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with, this is somebody that he could be completely and totally
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honest with, totally open with about his feelings about his
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frustrations and everything. And she didn't really hold it
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against them. And I think for John, that was
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kind of one of those things like, OK, yes, it was freeing.
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It was I enjoyed it probably just for that fact, right.
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And I think I think part of him too kind of wanted to hurt
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Jamie, you know, again, that anger, that whole because now
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you've you've really like you've put all of that out there
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thinking that this is something that would never have to be
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spoken of again or whatever. And it's kind of like now it's,
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it's just, it's just all there. And I feel like he.
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Yeah, OK. And Lord John is one of those.
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People, he doesn't lie. He that's what I'm saying.
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It was like he was going to say it anyway.
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He's going to need to say it. And yeah, he's he's he's angry
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at him because it's like you had us go through all these
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emotions. So it's almost like, and people
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can understand. It's like when a loved 1 like
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you haven't heard from them and it's a, a love when you hear
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from every day. So it could be your teenage
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child, your spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend, and you know me hear
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from them and you don't hear from them.
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And then you hear like there's a like a, a, a crash.
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And then you're like, Oh my gosh, that's the direction they
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were heading. And then they're picking up
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their phone and you're like, Oh my gosh, are they OK?
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Like who's in that accident? I don't know who's in the
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accident. And then when you finally get to
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them and they're like, Oh yeah, man, I was in Publix looking at
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the magazines and they left the phone in the car.
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I never made it down to that store.
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And you like your ass. I'm thinking you went in the
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accident and you up in the Publix reading the magazine for.
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Yeah, but also I think. I feel like that part, like you
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got us grieving, you got us going through this or end up
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sleeping with your wife and you, you just missed the ship.
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I mean, come on. And you just show up like it's
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rainbows and. Also, but also, I think part of
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the anger is Lord John has expressed all of these feelings.
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He has expressed this love, this rage, this anger, never
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expecting that Jamie would be there for that.
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I don't know, for that information to maybe get to him.
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You know, you think this is something intimate you're
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sharing with just this one person.
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But now the object of that affection, that anger, that
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everything is standing right there in front of you.
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And it's just kind of like, I really bared my complete soul
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for nothing. Lord John keeps everything close
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to the vest. He's not used to revealing that
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much about his feelings, about his emotions.
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And so yeah, he's probably pissed about that too.
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Like you made me expose myself to the one person who now I will
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no longer have access to in that way because you have changed the
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the scope of the friendship forever.
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Not just with him and Jamie, but also what friendship there was
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and what understanding there was between him and Claire even
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before they slept together. So now all of that is changed
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irrevocably. And he's probably pissed off
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about that too. Because.
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And then not only on, not only that, on top of everything, now
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his son knows the truth about who his real father is.
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So now you have this drama on top of this drama.
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And and on top of this, Jamie has not kidnapped you out the
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city. And there's just there's so much
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going on, I think. I think Lord John was just here.
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And so he's taunting Jamie at at one point when Jamie is hitting
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him, he was like, yeah, I did this.
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Yeah. We weren't.
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What did he say? We were fucking you.
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We weren't fucking each other. We were fucking you.
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And that's the thing that kind of set Jamie off.
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And again, I think when you read about this part in the book, it
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is kind of explained in a little more detail, like the
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conversation he and Claire had. I think there's a little more
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detail in this also where Jamie that offends Jamie because of
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what happened to him at the hands of Blackjack Randall, you
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know, and also, you know that that Lord John did.
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I won't even say he attempted to do anything with him, but he
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just kind of he made a move that was inappropriate.
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And from then it's kind of like Jamie knows, OK, so this is how
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he feels about me. He's, you know, he made the
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offer to Lord John. But I think for Jamie, I kind of
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want to say that maybe the fact that he just they never talked
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about it and he just kind of kept like Lord John is a dear
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friend, probably his best friend, honestly.
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This is the man who was raising his son.
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I think he, he loves Lord John, but he also isn't looking too
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closely at Lord John in that sense.
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And it's like for Lord John to say something like that we were
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both fucking you. That forces him to really stop
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and realize, OK, this man is really like in love with me.
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Like it's not just a sexual thing.
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It's not just whatever did. He's also having to confront the
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fact that he has had this friendship with this with this
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man for so long. And this man truly, truly feels
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about him the way he feels about him.
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And I just think that just kind of set things off because it's
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kind of like, OK, so now you got to deal with this.
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Because again, now that all of that information is out in the
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open, there really is no way to go back to what the friendship
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was. And this is even before, you
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know, putting the whole clear thing into perspective.
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But I just feel like with that conversation, the way that they
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had it, first of all, Lord John should have said something about
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the fact that he had to marry Claire to save her life.
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I think if you had started with that, you might have had a
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little more leeway. It didn't have to be so
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combative. But again, you've got emotions
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all around. Lord John is not behaving in his
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usual stoic, you know, dignified manner.
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He is like frenzied. And I'm like, well, this is what
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happens when you sleep with Claire Frazier.
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I don't know what it is about her, but she be having man just
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acting Boo, Boo the fool. So I don't know.
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He should have started that conversation a little bit
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differently. And I realized he was like,
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worried about it. He was like, look, let me just
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get this out the way. I've had carnal knowledge of
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your wife. When Jamie said how or why, then
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you should have started, OK, So what had happened was you should
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have started with the whole spy thing and they were going to
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hang your wife as a traitor. I married her.
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It was just a marriage and name and then blah, blah, blah.
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I mean, it's not like you didn't have the time before y'all
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started going that before y'all started fighting each other.
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You had time to sit there and properly explain it.
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But the fact that you know that Jamie Fraser has the temper that
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he has, obviously you know this because you're raising his son.
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His son has the same temper as we see in this.
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Episode as as as we see. So OK, we're going to move away
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from Lord John and Jamie right now because there's a lot to
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unpack with that. So we'll come back to it because
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I'm sure we both have more to say.
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But since we mentioned William, let's talk about baby boy 'cause
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woo woo like. I I, I don't know what to say.
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I I did say that I felt bad for him however you know he dumb
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piss me off. 'Cause he messed with your boy.
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He messed with you and not that he fought him because first of
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all, maybe he didn't know. Just don't assume.
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But you know what? From conversations.
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Yeah. He OK?
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Yeah, Ian knew. So yeah.
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Yeah. I'm never mind even.
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If he knew that does not give you permission to throw your
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hands and and hit him and then when he hits you back and you
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have him arrested. That's why Rachel, I didn't
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attack him. She was like, duh, yes, you did.
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You did get him in the face. But you did and all because then
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you realize, oh y'all get married, dude.
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All last week that's all she was talking about.
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In in, in, in in in in in in in in.
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Where you been? Yeah.
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Where have you been? So you are saying that and then?
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Understand his whole world is falling apart.
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I know all at the same time. I get it though.
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I do get it. It's spiral.
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And in that spiral you felt the need.
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After you get her fiance arrested, you don't kiss her.
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William, William. William William.
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So. But you done messed up though
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'cause you messed with my aunt Mama give you.
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I'm going to give you some leeway because I understand that
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you truly are upset. Right.
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But here's. The fact who you are because you
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don't know who you are. If you were going to kiss
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Rachel, you should have done that before.
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Long time ago. Like you had, you had your
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chance, you had your moment, you could have at least threw your
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hat into the ring and been like, OK, I understand that you're all
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about E&E and but I just need you to understand that I kind of
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love you too. And, you know, but I don't know,
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maybe he's too much like his father in that way, like Lord
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John keeping those emotions to the to the vest.
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And then now that everything is falling apart, he's just
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exploding. You know, he comes and talks to
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Claire and get some, you know, a little bit of information from
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her, which doesn't really happen like that in the book, if I
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remember correctly. But I'm kind of glad that they
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had it because with Jamie and Lord John both not being there
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to answer questions, he needed something, you know.
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But again, I have to remember 1700s because his first
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assumption that his mother is a whore just because you know, all
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of the stuff that it's just kind of like.
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Right. To like, and he was like, yeah,
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they said she was reckless. They said she was reckless.
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I need you to calm down. I need you to get at least part
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of the story. Just get, get, get enough of the
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story to kind of make you stop and say, OK, maybe I should wait
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and hear the whole story before I just start going off.
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And no, you start throwing things in the house.
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You, you break the chandelier, you break the mirror.
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And it's just, it's just a lot. And then you go to the brothel
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and you meet this, you know, you meet one of the women in the
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brothel and you have a moment where you lash out at her.
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You grab her, you're rough with her.
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And then you kind of realize, like, oh, shit, what am I doing?
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And I'm just like, William, I need you to calm down.
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But I will say this, I'm glad that they did show that part
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because that means that a part of the story that I was sure
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they were going to bring into the show is going to happen.
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So I'm looking very much forward to that.
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Oh, because they brought Jane in.
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Yes, because they brought Jane in.
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I also am glad that they aged her up for the show because in
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the book Jane is, I believe, 15. Oh no.
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Yeah. And she has been working in the
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brothels since she was like 11. He'd been living there since
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9:00. So.
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So I'm glad that they aged her up because in the books, William
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does develop a genuine affection for her.
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But it's more so like, yes, he does visit her in the brothel,
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but just like it happens here, he's trying to keep her from
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that other soldier. I can't remember what his name
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was because he is a right ass in the books.
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So he's trying to protect her. And then of course they do.
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I think they do sleep together maybe once or twice because of
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course it's kind of normal back then for that type of thing to
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happen. But then after that he takes
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more of a protector stance with her.
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And it's, it's a very sweet relationship in the book.
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So I'm I'm glad to see it in the show.
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I'm sure it's probably going to be a little bit different since
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the characters aged up a little bit, right?
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I, I think we'll still get to see the bulk of that
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relationship, which is good for me because it's one of those
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storylines that I really do enjoy in the books, You know,
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just kind of seeing William and how he's trying to deal with all
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of these revelations and all of these things that he's dealing
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with, but also him having a part of the story to himself that
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does not really involve the rest of the characters.
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I did enjoy that seeing that because that made me, it
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endeared me to his character a little bit more, you know,
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because one of the things that you and I have talked about is,
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is William being raises who he was the 9th Earl of Ellesmere.
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He's raised with a lot of privilege, a lot of, I will say
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entitlement. He's raised to kind of have a
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certain world view. That's not necessarily, let's
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say, the same type of worldview he would have if he was being
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raised by Claire and Janie. So you start to see the growth
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of his character and the maturing and kind of the change,
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like he's really starting to have to look at things in a
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different way. And that will happen with his
00:18:51
character in the show. And I'm I'm looking forward to
00:18:54
that because again, it's one of the things I enjoyed the most
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about reading the later books. It's just seeing more of
00:19:00
Williams character. So.
00:19:02
But boy, let me tell you. I'm glad that he had the
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opportunity to release some of that with her.
00:19:08
Like to say out loud, you know, I'm a bastard.
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And I felt bad when you say all I had was my word.
00:19:15
And you kind of made me take my word, break the word.
00:19:18
I felt like, oh, ma'am, you could have just left him alone
00:19:22
for this one night. He just needed his word.
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But you know what, I got to say it too.
00:19:28
He probably needed that more. He did because he's isolated
00:19:32
from everyone now and he just, I, I feel like he just needed a
00:19:37
comforting touch. He did.
00:19:39
He, I mean, he absolutely did. And he needed to express that to
00:19:42
her, to someone, Sir, what he was feeling.
00:19:47
Yeah. So.
00:19:48
But also it's good so he so he can let her know.
00:19:52
OK, look, I'm not a I'm not a Dick like this in person all the
00:19:56
time. Like I'm, I'm genuinely
00:19:58
struggling with stuff. Yeah, yeah.
00:20:00
I would have never put my hand on you otherwise, because you if
00:20:04
if Lord John and Jamie found out that he put his hands on her,
00:20:10
oh, he would be in the ground. Both of them be like no this is
00:20:15
not what we do but. He had to get them their
00:20:19
frustration out. But let me tell you the fact
00:20:24
that he was acting so out of character that he made Rachel of
00:20:30
all people. Yeah.
00:20:32
Slap him because of the way he was acting.
00:20:35
I was like, you know what? Well, I mean.
00:20:38
Hope that snaps him out of it. Well, you know, it, it, it
00:20:43
didn't 'cause he still was. I was went to the brothel in
00:20:48
that way. Still angry.
00:20:49
But yeah, it was, he was all over the place.
00:20:52
I mean, he was, he was all over the place.
00:20:54
Rightfully so though. Yeah, rightfully so.
00:20:57
He took it out on the people that was closer to him at the
00:21:00
time. And, and it kind of mimics the
00:21:02
way his sister found out about Jamie and Claire and the way
00:21:07
that she behaved because she pretty much had the same
00:21:10
reaction. Yeah.
00:21:11
And this is something she also warned Lord John about, you
00:21:17
know, she said. He's gonna, you know, when he
00:21:19
finds out or if he finds out, he's gonna be angry.
00:21:23
He's gonna feel betrayed. But it is.
00:21:26
But there's some things you can't say in front of Ian, too.
00:21:28
You can't be talking about Ian, Uncle slash daddy.
00:21:32
No, no. Especially after.
00:21:37
You just lost his his dad. You just lost him, and at this
00:21:40
point William knows that Jamie is alive, but Ian doesn't.
00:21:43
Right, so he thinks both his uncle and his dad is dead.
00:21:49
Dead. And you want to talk some mess
00:21:51
about Jamie? Oh no, he's not going for that.
00:21:56
Then the way you, the way you kind of come across is like
00:21:59
cousin, oh, so you know, And then Rachel's like, what?
00:22:03
Oh, that and Wayne was like, what do you mean that she was
00:22:06
like, well, you know, when I kind of look at you, you.
00:22:09
Can kind of, I love it. She's like, I kind of see it.
00:22:13
Yeah, you kind of see it. And it's so interesting because
00:22:15
later on in the episode when Jamie does appear and because he
00:22:19
sees Anne and Rachel tells him what happened, when he pulls
00:22:27
William to the side and they're looking at each other.
00:22:30
You can like their facial features are not all, like their
00:22:33
noses are different. But you can tell that Charles
00:22:40
van der Wart, who plays William, you can tell that he has studied
00:22:46
Sam Heuen and the way he makes his facial expressions because
00:22:50
there are some moments where he does very much resemble him and
00:22:55
kind of like the cock of his head or the way he stands or
00:22:59
just certain mannerisms. So yeah, Rachel was like.
00:23:05
Yeah, I can see it, Yeah. And I, I, you know, I guess in
00:23:10
some ways that might have made it worse because he was like,
00:23:13
oh, if there, if you can see it, who else can see it?
00:23:15
Who else is known? And that's just going to add
00:23:18
more and more his distress. But at this point, it's kind of
00:23:21
like that there really is nothing you can do about it now.
00:23:24
Like it's out in the open now. So unless you all just continue
00:23:29
to pretend, which at this point, I don't know because William
00:23:35
doesn't know what has transpired between Jamie and Laura John.
00:23:41
So he doesn't know that right now they're at odds.
00:23:43
He doesn't know that while they were in the middle of their
00:23:46
discussion, they were set upon by some some of the rebels.
00:23:52
And because they are familiar with Lord John, because they've
00:23:56
seen him sitting on his porch in his uniform, they're like, oh,
00:24:00
yeah, this dude is a, he's a, he's a British officer.
00:24:04
And Jamie is trying to tell them, look, this is personal
00:24:07
business. We just, you can just go about
00:24:10
your way. But of course, again, here's the
00:24:13
whole thing. You are friends with a British
00:24:15
officer. You are friends with a rebel
00:24:18
soldier, not only a rebel soldier, a well recognized
00:24:23
general of the militia. So right then and there, y'all 2
00:24:28
being together, having whatever kind of discussion is, is not,
00:24:34
you know it. It is very suspicious.
00:24:37
Again, if y'all had just said so, this is a matter of personal
00:24:42
matter about my wife, they probably would have left it
00:24:46
alone. They probably would have left it
00:24:49
alone, but there was something about the name because
00:24:52
apparently there was a a British soldier by the name of Charles
00:24:57
Gray, who is some distant relative to Lord John, who has
00:25:02
caused some commotion within the rebel camps, within the rebel
00:25:07
army, killed a few people. And so they're looking for a way
00:25:12
to make an example. And of course, his cousin just
00:25:16
happens to be here, has no pet. You know, they don't have any
00:25:20
kind of papers or Jamie doesn't have papers supposedly on him.
00:25:24
And they're like, yeah, we're just going to take them.
00:25:26
We're going to take them. And then when they do take them,
00:25:32
they find a letter of Commission.
00:25:35
In his. Pocket from how ordering him
00:25:39
back into reinstate and he didn't even know because he
00:25:43
hadn't had time to read the letter.
00:25:46
Matter of fact, I think that's what what that's what he was
00:25:49
getting ready to read when Jamie burst in the door in the
00:25:52
bedroom. So he hadn't had time to read it
00:25:55
yet. So now this makes it look like
00:25:57
he's a spy 'cause he's not in uniform.
00:26:00
He was just getting beat up. He said he lying about his
00:26:04
service. I was just like Jamie.
00:26:09
You could have tried harder to save him because you, I
00:26:14
understand that you may do certain things as far as if he's
00:26:18
a prisoner, you're not gonna just outright kill him or
00:26:20
whatever. But bro, this is not anything
00:26:26
good for for Lord John. It's not.
00:26:30
And I was like, I'm skipping to the end.
00:26:36
Did he get shot? Did he get shot?
00:26:45
Oh, spoil his friends 'cause I don't like that he already in
00:26:49
the dark, he can't halfway see they chase snapped to him with
00:26:53
dogs and guns. I said, do we really have to end
00:26:55
the episode like this? I.
00:26:56
Don't think he got shot but. I'm not.
00:26:59
I'm gonna assume he's he did, I mean.
00:27:02
He's not dead. I will say that he's not dead.
00:27:03
He's not. Dead right?
00:27:04
And I, I'm assuming he wouldn't be dead because if we still
00:27:07
need, we still need some client and him to have some type of
00:27:12
conversation 'cause then William would be even more devastated if
00:27:18
he dies and he had a chance to tell him how upset he was, but
00:27:23
then also tell him that he loved him.
00:27:24
It'll be so much worse for William so.
00:27:28
We're not gonna do that. That's why I was like, I don't
00:27:30
really like how this episode ended.
00:27:32
I don't really. Yeah, it it's to keep you in
00:27:36
suspense. I don't remember if he if he
00:27:38
actually got shot or what may have happened because again,
00:27:42
some things that are going a little bit kind of out of out of
00:27:47
order, if I can, if I can say that because leading up to this
00:27:53
point, there's some other stuff that that would have happened.
00:27:58
So yeah, I'm not sure. I don't think he got shot, but I
00:28:02
mean, look, Lord John is just not having what is it?
00:28:06
I saw somebody say it and I I had been thinking that he's he's
00:28:10
having a note on what is it a no good, terrible, bad.
00:28:15
I can't remember the name of the children's book, but he's having
00:28:17
one of those days. He's just, it's just not poor
00:28:25
Lord John. He's just now he's in enemy
00:28:32
hands. And apparently the person who is
00:28:37
in charge of the camp that he's at, he knows because there was
00:28:41
some dialogue between them, like they knew each other.
00:28:44
But aside from him calling him Smith, we don't really know
00:28:49
anything about this person. We just know that he's like, OK,
00:28:51
well, you know, I hate to have to do this, but yeah, we're
00:28:56
going to let. We're going to let the camp
00:28:58
Doctor Who just happens to be Denzel Hunter.
00:29:01
Yay, treat you. But then I'm going to go off to
00:29:05
the side and make a secret, you know, a secret communication and
00:29:11
find out. Oh, OK, So what we're going to
00:29:13
do is we're going to hang you as an example, but I'm not going to
00:29:15
tell you that I was just like Lord John.
00:29:18
You just get out. You need to.
00:29:20
Get out right. So I'm glad he's running, but.
00:29:25
He's not in the best shape to be running right?
00:29:27
No. That's what I'm saying.
00:29:28
That's why I was like, I really didn't care for how this episode
00:29:31
ended. Yeah, he can't.
00:29:34
Yeah. And and it's so funny the how
00:29:37
everything is doing the the reveal about Jamie being alive
00:29:42
because like I said, Jamie comes out of the woods while Ian is
00:29:45
being, you know, I'm not not drug, but he's, you know, kind
00:29:51
of handcuffed and following behind the wagon.
00:29:54
And he looks at Jamie and you can see he wants to react.
00:29:59
He wants to cry, he wants to laugh.
00:30:02
But he's like, oh, OK, let me just be quiet and see what's
00:30:05
going on. Because at this point, you know
00:30:07
your uncle enough to know something ain't right.
00:30:10
Right he he bout to try to get you out.
00:30:12
That's what you already know. So just just keep quiet.
00:30:16
That too. But and then when Lord John sees
00:30:20
Denzel in the camp and Denzel was checking out his eye, he was
00:30:23
like, yeah, this eye is not that good.
00:30:25
I do wish your wife was. He he was like wife.
00:30:28
Haha. I have no wife.
00:30:31
You would know why. Because Jamie Fraser is not
00:30:33
dead. And Denzel's looking like, huh,
00:30:38
Yeah, they just. Poor Lord John.
00:30:42
He just got so much going on, trying to keep from being hung.
00:30:47
And then Denzel actually does something that he probably
00:30:51
shouldn't do as a Quaker, but he's basically like, yeah, I'm
00:30:55
gonna bring you some lunch, and I'm also gonna bring you a knife
00:30:57
so you can cut yourself out. You need to go.
00:30:58
Need to go tonight. Bye.
00:31:02
Oh, So which the Quakers, We got both of the Quakers acting right
00:31:07
heuristically. This.
00:31:09
But I like that though 'cause he was.
00:31:10
Like you got to go right 'cause they gonna kill you.
00:31:13
Like you are a friend even though you are, you know, and,
00:31:17
and again, these blurred lines, British rebels.
00:31:20
But you know what? You are a person that I like and
00:31:23
I respect. You need to get the fuck out now
00:31:25
'cause they're gonna kill you in the morning.
00:31:28
Bye. But he can't have C.
00:31:35
And then the person Smith, who is in the tent with him
00:31:39
sleeping, happens to turn over and notice that he's gone.
00:31:42
I was like, you could've just. You could've been in the deep
00:31:45
sleep you want. Roll over now.
00:31:48
Stirring earlier. I know, but you want roll over
00:31:50
now. Yeah, I kind of feel like John
00:31:54
probably should have waited a little bit longer to make sure
00:31:57
he was deeply asleep, but there's no telling how long that
00:32:00
would have taken that would have, you know, cut down on the
00:32:05
amount of time he would have had to escape.
00:32:07
So I mean, he's, he's caught between a rock and a hard place.
00:32:13
He has, he has no friends around him.
00:32:16
The one person who probably in any other instance would have
00:32:20
come to rescue him is the person who is kind of sort of
00:32:24
responsible for him being in this, you know, in this
00:32:27
situation in the 1st place. So it's just kind of like he
00:32:31
doesn't have much to go on. Nobody knows where he is right
00:32:35
now. Jamie doesn't even seem.
00:32:38
Like he cared. Yes, that's and that's another.
00:32:42
That's another thing that bothered me.
00:32:45
He's angry, he's very angry. And sometimes when we're angry,
00:32:50
we say think and do things that we don't really feel, but we're
00:32:54
just letting that and, and, and I think once he calms down, once
00:32:59
he kind of gets over the upset, now that he and Claire have had
00:33:03
that that conversation, that that hard conversation, and now
00:33:08
that they've had the table sex, I think he'll start calming
00:33:11
down. He'll be like, OK, you know,
00:33:13
maybe I acted a little bit rashly, maybe.
00:33:17
But he's still going to be pissed for a while.
00:33:19
And again, I don't think it had to do.
00:33:22
I don't think he's being pissed had anything to do with Claire,
00:33:25
especially once Claire, it kind of explained the situation and
00:33:28
was basically like this was not us making love.
00:33:32
It was it was literally animal me.
00:33:35
I needed something different. I needed somewhere to place my
00:33:38
anger. I needed somewhere to place my
00:33:40
rage. I needed somewhere to place my
00:33:42
grief and he took it all. You know what, whatever you want
00:33:46
to call it. I think now that she has
00:33:49
explained that he won't be so mad about that part because when
00:33:56
you look at it in that way, Lord John was there for her in ways
00:34:01
nobody else could have. So and then again, this is
00:34:05
somebody who she would never have those kind of romantic
00:34:09
feelings for. So it's not like it was
00:34:11
something that he should be threatened by.
00:34:14
But again, Lord John's feelings for him, the fact that he now
00:34:18
has to like really openly confront that, I think that's
00:34:21
kind. That's just kind of like, OK,
00:34:25
yeah, I kind of sort of gave him to some some rebels, but I kind
00:34:28
of sort of didn't have a choice. He should be OK, but again, he
00:34:32
doesn't know about the the letter in John's pocket up until
00:34:36
later on. Then it's like, oh shit.
00:34:39
Yeah. Oh, and Speaking of which, the
00:34:44
whole reason why he's running from soldiers in the 1st place
00:34:47
because even Lord John says you just got the time.
00:34:50
May I ask why soldiers are chasing you?
00:34:53
And he had his papers. That was what we thought.
00:34:56
He didn't have papers. He said he had his papers.
00:34:59
But I guess the, I guess the, the soldier who was looking at
00:35:03
him didn't like, didn't like the look of them and wanted to
00:35:07
search him. And he had some things on him
00:35:11
that he did not want found. And those turns out to be some
00:35:17
letters and some information from France that he brings to
00:35:23
none other than General George Washington.
00:35:26
Right. And it was, it was funny because
00:35:28
watching this, Anthony was in the background say, OK, so so
00:35:33
now with George Washington, I'm like, Yep, we're at that point,
00:35:38
George Washington. Yep.
00:35:41
And then when George Washington offers him a position, you know
00:35:46
how I was in the background. No, no.
00:35:51
Please turn him down. No.
00:35:54
Especially considering the fact that you haven't even properly
00:35:58
reunited with your wife yet. Like you had the one moment in
00:36:02
the house but y'all haven't even had a sit down to say.
00:36:06
I'm so glad you're you're not dead.
00:36:08
Can you tell me exactly what happened?
00:36:10
And they, you know, they get this later on, but when he comes
00:36:15
in later on to have that conversation with her, he's
00:36:18
already pierced and in a foul mood.
00:36:20
So it's just kind of like, no, don't.
00:36:23
Why are you accepting commissions?
00:36:25
And you ain't even had like. What?
00:36:29
Yeah, So, you know, I was already screaming.
00:36:31
No, no, no and no. Damn.
00:36:34
You just get, you literally just got back.
00:36:37
Can we fix? Look, can we fix what's going on
00:36:40
right here in your family? First raised from the dead.
00:36:44
Damn. Your wife married to another
00:36:47
man, Which I'm starting to think he probably heard a little bit
00:36:51
about that. Because if he got back and he
00:36:53
said he heard the uterpy sink, he knew Claire would be worried.
00:36:58
Maybe somewhere around there if he asked, you know, have you
00:37:03
seen a Madam French or Lord John Gray or whatever?
00:37:06
Somebody might have said Lord John and Mistress Gray.
00:37:12
They might have said something that kind of tip him off, but he
00:37:16
probably wasn't thinking about that.
00:37:17
He was probably just like, OK, I need to get to my wife and we'll
00:37:21
figure this out. But then the way that all of
00:37:24
that stuff is revealed, it's just kind of like, no, but that
00:37:29
conversation that they had, I, you know, I was really, really
00:37:37
trying to be patient with Jamie because I realized you've been
00:37:40
gone for months at this point and you come back, your wife is
00:37:46
married, your best friend, your best friend has slept with your
00:37:49
wife. And then kind of sort of not
00:37:52
necessarily bragged to him about it, but like he said, when the
00:37:57
the rebels pulled him off, he was like, and I'm not sorry
00:37:59
about it either. So, so you got a little bit of.
00:38:04
Right. And just.
00:38:05
And I and Claire kept asking like, where?
00:38:07
What? Where is he?
00:38:11
Is he dead and. I'm like, that's what bothered
00:38:13
me. That's, that's what bothered me
00:38:15
'cause I, I, I now I understand it's not the same, but to me
00:38:22
it's the same. Now I understand you guys issue
00:38:26
with Claire and the ether 'cause that's how I'm feeling about
00:38:30
Jamie's reaction. I feel like it's not really him.
00:38:36
Yeah. So that's what bothered me with
00:38:38
this episode. Yeah.
00:38:41
So I'm to be completely honest, I like disconnect because even
00:38:47
they have great communication but they still was missing a
00:38:51
piece when they were communicating.
00:38:52
Like she was telling him everything that needed to be
00:38:56
said, but like from him it was like missing pieces.
00:39:00
But again I. For me, yeah, you, for you to
00:39:04
realize that you got to understand, like you need to be
00:39:08
a little bit more caring that they not they just Claire, let's
00:39:14
just say Claire period, thought you were dead.
00:39:17
You literally just came back. When you came back to say you're
00:39:21
not dead, you run off with Lord John.
00:39:25
You leave him somewhere. You you go off, do some other
00:39:28
things. You deal with George Washington,
00:39:31
then you come back and you're acting, kind of.
00:39:36
Angry. Right and cold and, and I, I had
00:39:39
an issue with that 'cause I'll be like, I, I'm jealous, Claire,
00:39:44
I just need to understand and. We know Jamie is a jealous man.
00:39:49
Right. And I get that and I totally get
00:39:51
it. But some of it like you're even
00:39:55
when you were mad sometimes at people, you still kind of cared,
00:39:58
like what was happening to them. You just let you have no idea
00:40:02
what they're doing to Lord John. None, and you have no urgency to
00:40:08
go get him. Instead you're screwing on the
00:40:13
table. That bothered me too.
00:40:16
Yeah. 'Cause you don't, you really
00:40:19
don't know. It's not like you left him in
00:40:21
the pub drinking. He'll make it home like he's
00:40:27
been taken. He literally could be hanged.
00:40:31
You really don't know. Right.
00:40:34
So that kind of that that this kind of that bothered me just to
00:40:40
tell you that just that just bothered me a tad just to tell
00:40:44
you. Yeah, I mean, and I understand
00:40:47
that because it's kind of like you're having this conversation
00:40:52
with your wife and all you can focus on this is, is your anger.
00:40:57
And it's like she's trying to tell you there, there is no one.
00:41:00
There is really no good way to explain any of this.
00:41:04
And again, I kind of feel like why has nobody mentioned the
00:41:07
fact that, oh, so this all started because I got caught
00:41:14
being a spy and he was trying to keep me from being killed as a
00:41:20
service to you, as some, as the last good service he could do
00:41:24
for his friend. Why?
00:41:28
Why y'all, why nobody is mentioning this as a starting
00:41:32
point? It's so confusing to me because
00:41:38
if you really think about it, if you really think about it, do
00:41:42
you really think that Claire's just going to up and marry
00:41:46
somebody else after a couple of weeks?
00:41:52
What? Right.
00:41:53
That's what I'm saying. That's what and then all that
00:41:59
I'm be honest with you, all that Lord John has done for you, but
00:42:04
she really did not have to do and continue to do.
00:42:11
You better be glad that man in love with you 'cause right, so
00:42:14
he could have sent you to the States from Arts Mirror.
00:42:19
Right. Or even just his his
00:42:20
relationship with William. It could been told, it could be
00:42:23
totally different. I'm talking about even way
00:42:25
before that. That's true.
00:42:27
Way before that, Jamie could have been further imprisoned
00:42:32
after that escape attempt when he tried to when he went to
00:42:35
Silky Island, he came back. Lord John could have had him in
00:42:41
prison for the rest of his life. Right.
00:42:44
On when ours mirror closed, he could have sent Jamie to the
00:42:48
States with the rest of the men. Told her Sandy, But even now,
00:42:52
even even to this date, because you can be like, OK, that was in
00:42:55
the past, but even up to now he's been loyal.
00:42:58
So I don't know, I just it's just me.
00:43:01
I just wasn't feeling. But was it like that in a book
00:43:06
or and it's just not playing well on the screen right now
00:43:10
like their interaction at that part, is it better in the book?
00:43:17
From what I remember, I would say yes, but I would say yes
00:43:21
because they don't have the constraints that you have
00:43:27
filming a show trying to tell so much story in a few.
00:43:32
Right. And I I totally get that, but
00:43:34
just his just the just what is happening, even if if it was
00:43:40
even spanned out, I'm just not really caring about that
00:43:45
interaction and his reaction. So that's what I'm saying is the
00:43:48
reaction better in the book? But I think it's probably
00:43:51
better, but because it's more explained of why he's feeling
00:43:54
that way. And here they still could have
00:43:56
done it, but it's just, it's just not to his character.
00:44:01
To me, it's something about it that's just not him.
00:44:06
Yeah, but I, I mean. But some stuff was funny though,
00:44:11
because she didn't quite like what he said.
00:44:14
You do leave with your body. She's.
00:44:20
Laughing, he was like, she was like also I'm a whore now.
00:44:23
He was like, no, that's not what I mean.
00:44:24
Like and I get what he was trying to I get.
00:44:27
What he was saying too, but it was a.
00:44:29
Harsh conversation already, you just did not say it in the the
00:44:34
right way, so yeah. Like you, you talk with your
00:44:39
body, you express sometimes your emotion with your body.
00:44:42
But I didn't mean it that you were a whore, right?
00:44:48
I got it too what he was trying to say, but she was like.
00:44:51
Yeah, this is one of the one of the times when Jamie Fraser's
00:44:54
words failed him, right? Yeah, but but yeah, I think I
00:45:03
think with them only having what is the 7-8 episodes on this back
00:45:08
half again, there's so much story that I think they're going
00:45:13
to put in this last season and 1/2 of the story, all the stuff
00:45:18
without Arabella slash Jane. I didn't think that they were
00:45:22
going to delve into that because I was like, how are you going to
00:45:25
have time? Because Jane for William that
00:45:32
the storyline and the relationship between Jane and
00:45:35
William and the things that happen from this point on is
00:45:41
such an integral part of William's growth.
00:45:44
Mm hmm. And of, and I will be honest,
00:45:48
it's, it's a, it's a little bit of can't say without spoiling
00:45:59
it, But I, it's just, it's very important to the story.
00:46:04
I didn't know if they were going to be able to do it.
00:46:07
But even though they're bringing her in, I feel like the
00:46:13
storyline is going to be condensed because there's some
00:46:18
major things that are going to have to happen in order to push
00:46:22
William's story forward and to push Jane's story.
00:46:26
And then I will just say in the books, Jane has a little sister.
00:46:31
So like I said, William becomes kind of a protector of them,
00:46:35
trying to make sure that, you know, that he he's trying to
00:46:39
help them get out the brothel. He's trying just different
00:46:42
things. And I just feel like in in a
00:46:45
sense, it's probably going to be rushed in the show because
00:46:50
there's also, yeah, there's also another key character that is
00:46:56
coming in that I didn't know if they were going to do that
00:47:00
storyline. But then there was like a little
00:47:02
interview video with some of the characters.
00:47:05
And one of the characters was talking about, I think the the
00:47:09
question was, who is more romantic, you or your character?
00:47:14
And one of the one of the actors said, well, I think we'll see
00:47:20
that my character is a little bit more romantic.
00:47:23
You know, up until this point, no, but we, there are, there is
00:47:26
some stuff coming up that, you know, that'll show us a
00:47:31
different side to the character. And I was like, yes, they're
00:47:33
doing that storyline, but I was like, wait, now, because if you
00:47:38
bring that storyline and that means there's at least four more
00:47:43
characters that are going to have to come into the store.
00:47:45
And I just don't. I don't.
00:47:46
Know, I don't know. They don't have the time for
00:47:49
that. So I would say if they do bring
00:47:53
those characters, if they do bring that storyline, if they do
00:47:58
have to condense it, I hope they condense it in a way that makes
00:48:02
sense. Like with the whole thing with
00:48:05
Claire and and Lord John and everything, from the time that
00:48:08
Claire left Scotland, we knew that there was chunks of time
00:48:13
going by. It wasn't like this all happened
00:48:16
in a few days. Like this is a course of several
00:48:18
months from the time that Claire left Scotland to the time that
00:48:21
Jamie returns. So I think they did a good job
00:48:26
with that, even though, yes, I I do kind of feel like some of it
00:48:29
is rushed. But again, I think for the
00:48:33
amount of Canon that there is in the books and what they can and
00:48:38
can't do on screen, I think they're doing a really good job.
00:48:41
Because I don't, I'm looking at it and especially now that I
00:48:45
know the story, I can see what changes they've made and what
00:48:50
sacrifices they've had to make so far.
00:48:52
And I'm just like, OK, I'm not all that bothered by it because
00:48:57
I know we're, we're pressed for time.
00:49:00
And the way that they're telling the story is not, it's, it's not
00:49:04
detrimental to what's going to happen on screen.
00:49:07
I don't feel like because I'm looking at this and I'm like,
00:49:10
OK, I, I'm following the story. There's not anything that's
00:49:13
really going on that's making me feel like, so how did they get
00:49:18
to this point? I think the only thing is that
00:49:21
person who was keeping Lord John hostage, the fact that he
00:49:25
referred to him as Smith and kind of made references to like,
00:49:31
a past, I don't even want to say relationship, a past
00:49:35
acquaintanceship or something between them.
00:49:39
I was like, OK, I had to sit here and think, and I think I
00:49:43
remember who this person actually is.
00:49:47
So I made take a look at the books and be like, OK, let me
00:49:50
see if it's this person. Oh yes, Oh no.
00:49:53
But aside from that one person, because of the way that they
00:49:57
introduced them, I, I think they're doing a good job.
00:50:02
It's just that, like I said, there's so much story.
00:50:06
And yes, I do believe that conversation with Jamie and
00:50:08
Claire. I do believe there was much more
00:50:10
to it in the books. But again, you have the benefit
00:50:14
with the book of that thing could have been 1020 pages long
00:50:19
full of dialogue. But you you can only do so much
00:50:23
in our episode, especially when if you're trying to get to
00:50:27
several other plot points in in the storyline.
00:50:31
So I don't know, hopefully Jamie got whatever piss tivity he he
00:50:40
had towards Claire. Hopefully he's got that out of
00:50:43
his system and they can actually focus on trying to find Lord
00:50:50
John. And then, as we see in this
00:50:53
episode, he really does need to have a conversation with his
00:50:57
son. Yeah, he does.
00:50:59
And. Not throwing them up against the
00:51:01
tree. But you know what?
00:51:02
I'm kind of glad that he did that because I feel like William
00:51:07
had this attitude that because Jamie lied to him, because of,
00:51:15
you know, because of the secret, because of the way that he found
00:51:18
out, because he feels like he has the right to be pissed,
00:51:21
which he does. I think he really thought that
00:51:24
Jamie was just going to let him talk to him any kind of way and.
00:51:28
Right. And that's not going.
00:51:29
To happen. Like hold up, let me let you in
00:51:32
on the little secrets. You know me, but you don't know
00:51:36
me. Right.
00:51:38
So let me show you who I really am now.
00:51:40
He threw that boy up against that tree.
00:51:42
He was like you. Whatever you got to do, you are
00:51:45
going to go get my nephew out of that.
00:51:47
Right. He was like, Boo, you bout to
00:51:48
get this together? My bro I maybe I didn't raise
00:51:52
you. I did raise that one.
00:51:54
Or. We not gonna do.
00:51:57
You see 'cause you upset, right? But.
00:52:05
Yeah, they don't have to have a conversation, but they got to
00:52:08
find they need to find Louis John first.
00:52:10
Please. And he needs to care.
00:52:13
And I think he does, but. I mean, I know he does, but
00:52:17
anger is going to be with him. Well, hopefully when they're
00:52:19
done on the table he can go like try to find out where he is and
00:52:22
rescue him. Curtains all open.
00:52:27
I mean, I understand you didn't want to go to the same bed where
00:52:30
she laid, where she lay with, with John, but still, it's like,
00:52:35
where was Missus Fig at the time?
00:52:37
Was Missus Fig just like, oh, I'm just going to go into the
00:52:40
kitchen and I'm just going to stay there for a while.
00:52:42
Or maybe she was cleaning up Williams.
00:52:45
Yeah, I don't. Know.
00:52:47
They're right there. So I don't know.
00:52:50
But you know what they got, they got whatever they needed to out
00:52:53
their system. They got that one good, you
00:52:57
know? OK, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta
00:52:59
get back in my body. I gotta get OK.
00:53:02
So now y'all need to start fixing some shit.
00:53:05
Go find sit down with William. And and, and I don't even know
00:53:10
if Jamie has told Claire yet that he said this new Commission
00:53:14
'cause you know, she's not going to be pleased about that.
00:53:17
But, I mean, she said in the last episode that what did she
00:53:21
tell Ian? You know, Jamie and I made a
00:53:23
home here and we wanted to be a part of building this new
00:53:26
nation. So I guess they're going to be
00:53:30
building that new nation. I mean, yeah.
00:53:35
Be a part of. It he wasn't going to have a
00:53:36
chance to do it, and now he does.
00:53:38
Yep, we want to be a part of it. So let me, let me ask you,
00:53:46
during the conversations with George Washington, were you were
00:53:52
you hearing little snippets of Hamilton in your head?
00:53:55
OK, It's not OK 'cause every time something.
00:53:59
Happened. And then also because I think in
00:54:04
one of the earlier episodes, maybe it was from earlier in
00:54:07
Season 7, you know, Jamie mentioned the Continental
00:54:10
Congress and I was like, oh, he's going to see Alexander
00:54:14
Hamilton. But yeah, I just, you said you
00:54:25
were done fighting. But I mean, I guess too, at the
00:54:29
same time, if you have someone as respected and someone as
00:54:36
revered as George Washington asking you to be a part of
00:54:40
history, to be a part of this change, he probably didn't feel
00:54:45
like he could say no. Because at this point, George
00:54:49
Washington is like the man he is the person that's leading the
00:54:54
rebels. He's the yeah, I, I just don't
00:55:00
see. I don't see any way Jamie could
00:55:05
have said no and still been OK. You know, one of the things
00:55:12
about Jamie, his name does command respect because of all
00:55:19
the things that he has done, not just in the lead up to the
00:55:22
American Revolution. But of course all the people who
00:55:26
are fighting with him, they know a little bit about his, his
00:55:30
Scottish background. They know a little bit about his
00:55:33
Culloden background, his Jacobite background.
00:55:37
So he carries a lot of respect. But I think if he had refused,
00:55:46
he might have started having problems.
00:55:49
Maybe not big problems, but especially the fact that, OK,
00:55:53
you just came back in town from Scotland, you're refusing to
00:55:58
take part in our side of the the war, which, you know, if they'll
00:56:03
remember. Oh, yeah.
00:56:04
You don't want to fight with us. You know, when we, when we went
00:56:07
to Saratoga, when we were at Ticonderoga.
00:56:09
You don't want to do that with us either.
00:56:11
And. Oh, what happened when people
00:56:15
thought you were dead? Your wife married a British
00:56:18
soldier. So they might if, if he didn't
00:56:22
step up and say, OK, yes, I'll take this Commission.
00:56:25
He might have had difficulties in other aspects, especially
00:56:31
because Claire don't know how to sit down and just wait.
00:56:36
But I mean, again, she, she did kind of put herself in that
00:56:40
position to where she had to marry Lord John because she was
00:56:46
trying to help Mercy out. So I don't know.
00:56:50
I just, you know, I think I said this before, I'm really tired of
00:56:56
the war stuff. I know it's got to happen and I
00:56:59
know we've got to go through that.
00:57:01
I understand it. That's why I was screaming no,
00:57:05
no, no. 'Cause now you know we're going
00:57:08
to see some more battles. Yes, yes.
00:57:11
That's why I was. I can't.
00:57:13
Yeah. Well, that that many because we
00:57:16
don't have much time. That's a good thing about it.
00:57:17
We don't have much time. So you can't.
00:57:21
You really can't. Depends on how long they drag,
00:57:24
like what the, what the time span is, how they, how they drag
00:57:30
all of this out, 'cause I don't even remember what the year is
00:57:35
right now. I know 17, I want to say 1778 or
00:57:40
9. I think it, it's, it's one of
00:57:44
those two years. But yeah, I just, Jamie don't
00:57:53
need to be fighting anymore because.
00:57:59
And then also, you know, if Jamie fights, Claire's not going
00:58:02
to let him go off on his own. She's going to come because
00:58:06
she's the surgeon. She's the medic.
00:58:07
They're going to need her, which is true.
00:58:12
So that means they're both going to be in it.
00:58:14
And then of course, Ian's going to be in it.
00:58:16
And now that he and Rachel are like together, together, it it's
00:58:20
just they're they're. They're in it too.
00:58:24
Yeah, they have a lot of stuff to to fit into these next season
00:58:31
and a few episodes. And I don't even think in this
00:58:38
episode, I don't even think we got any Brianna and Rodger
00:58:41
stuff. No, we did not.
00:58:43
So. So we still got all that stuff?
00:58:46
Yep. So wonder about this.
00:58:47
Episode we do 'cause I was thinking that too, Like, OK, we
00:58:54
left off cameras on the floor. Yeah.
00:58:58
Yeah, ass tires skillet. Right.
00:59:02
And with the knowledge that Jim is not in the past.
00:59:05
Right. And no Roger this episode
00:59:08
either. Yep, no.
00:59:10
And that shenanigans found in Daddy, right?
00:59:15
So. So yeah, they, they have a lot
00:59:18
to work in. But like I said, I I will say
00:59:21
this, for the most part, Outlander has done very well
00:59:27
with merging their storylines or even when they've had to move
00:59:32
stuff further into the storyline or take some stuff that should
00:59:37
be happening later and putting it sooner in the episodes.
00:59:42
They all work because I don't think I've had a real like
00:59:47
complaint complaint about the pacing of this show.
00:59:51
No, I didn't the only. Thing was, the whole Ether
00:59:55
storyline and the Lionel Brown storyline and even.
00:59:58
When I that did that did. My my rewatch that wasn't as bad
01:00:04
as I remember. It wasn't bad.
01:00:06
It did. It did.
01:00:07
It didn't bother me. I know it bothered you, but it
01:00:10
did drag just a little bit, just a little bit.
01:00:12
But then we're just make, we're making up for it now because now
01:00:15
we're just like we were going 35, now we're going 60.
01:00:20
Yeah, yeah. But it's a nice 60.
01:00:23
Like I'm not missing anything. Yeah, it's just a tad bit
01:00:28
faster. Yeah.
01:00:30
No complaints on that because then with that you almost like,
01:00:34
OK, well you get a lot of, you can get a lot of story in.
01:00:37
Yeah, I just wish that they would have given US1 more
01:00:40
season. But right.
01:00:42
And that would have gave time for, I guess, him coming back
01:00:47
from the dead. And that was whole interactions.
01:00:51
And it would have been more. Yeah, yeah.
01:00:55
And I think if we had had more like if we had another season or
01:01:01
even just a few more episodes because I don't think seasons
01:01:05
season 8 is very long. It might be 7 or 8 episodes, but
01:01:11
give us maybe one or two more episodes.
01:01:13
We could have spent maybe a little bit more time in
01:01:15
Scotland. Because that is one thing I that
01:01:18
is one thing I am disappointed about for this season because
01:01:23
there was such a big build up to it about them getting home,
01:01:27
about them going to Scotland, them getting in home, them
01:01:31
seeing the family. And then we literally got what,
01:01:34
2 episodes? Maybe not even the full 2
01:01:36
episodes. And then they had to leave.
01:01:39
Yeah. And it, it was basically them
01:01:41
coming, you know, to say goodbye to big in which yes, that
01:01:47
happens in the books, but there's also a lot more story in
01:01:50
between there. So you get you get the feeling
01:01:53
of being in Scotland for a lot longer.
01:01:58
Yeah. So.
01:01:59
So yeah, I get that, yeah. But I, I, I don't know.
01:02:06
I just, I think first and foremost, we need to find Laura
01:02:11
John. We need to rescue him.
01:02:13
We need to figure out if he was because I, I don't think he was
01:02:17
shot. Maybe it was just to scare him
01:02:23
because shooting him when he escapes, I don't think will work
01:02:30
out for the British Army the way they need it to.
01:02:33
Like they were really going to hang him because they needed to
01:02:37
set an example. And the only thing that you're
01:02:40
showing if you if you shoot him when he escapes is that your
01:02:47
people weren't competent enough to keep hold of 1/2 blind, you
01:02:54
know, half blind bound prisoner. Like how did he get away?
01:03:01
How did y'all let him escape? You got 3 guards standing from
01:03:05
the tent. Didn't nobody say let's go check
01:03:08
the back, let's check things, you know?
01:03:12
Yeah. Yeah, I know.
01:03:16
So find him. William needs to get all of that
01:03:21
anger out his system, which I know that's not going to be an
01:03:23
overnight thing, especially for him.
01:03:27
Like it was different for Brianna, I think because one
01:03:32
Brianna had a different, she had a different support system
01:03:36
because she had Rodger there while she was figuring all of
01:03:40
this out. Yeah, she did, you know.
01:03:43
And he really don't have anybody.
01:03:45
No, because the one person he thought he had, she's engaged to
01:03:49
somebody else now, his cousin on top of that.
01:03:56
So not only has he lost the the, I guess the love of his life,
01:04:01
she's about to be family. And she knew all along.
01:04:07
That poor baby. Yeah, she suspected.
01:04:09
But yeah, I I think even in the book when that revelation came
01:04:14
out, she was like, oh, what secret that Jamie is your
01:04:18
father. He was like, excuse me.
01:04:19
But she was like, it's like looking in a mirror, like y'all
01:04:25
into it, you know? Because like I said, in the
01:04:27
books, they are mirror images of each other, which is one of the
01:04:30
reasons why Jamie has stayed away from him so long.
01:04:33
And the older he gets, he's like, yeah, I'm never going to
01:04:36
see him again because the the minute he looks at me, he will
01:04:39
not. Well, it's all out in the open
01:04:41
now. So now we got to deal with, we
01:04:44
got to let William work through his anger.
01:04:47
And then there needs to be a little bit of acceptance.
01:04:51
And then he needs to figure out what he's going to do because he
01:04:54
can still tell people that he's the 9th Earl of Ellesmere.
01:04:59
And I think nobody would question it.
01:05:02
But he was raised by Lord John. So I feel like he's going to
01:05:08
have that same type of code of honor that Lord John does.
01:05:13
He's not going to want to lie. He's not going to want to claim
01:05:16
inheritance and property that does not belong to him by right.
01:05:22
So it's going to be interesting to see where he goes from here.
01:05:26
I don't think he will be that quickly reconciled to lower John
01:05:32
or Jamie. Not like Brianna was, because
01:05:35
Brianna literally had the truth pushed in her face.
01:05:40
You know, as far as Claire and the stones with Gaylors Duncan,
01:05:44
That's that's the other thing. Brianna had something else.
01:05:47
She had another catalyst to make her say, oh, wait, my mom is not
01:05:51
crazy. She's telling the truth.
01:05:52
William doesn't have any of that, and he can't even add the
01:05:56
people who he really wants to ask.
01:05:59
He can't even ask because both Geneva and Isabel are gone.
01:06:03
Yeah. So even if Jamie were to tell
01:06:06
him the truth about what happened, he's only hearing
01:06:09
Jamie's side of the story. Jamie.
01:06:11
I mean, truthfully, he doesn't know Jamie.
01:06:14
He doesn't know that Jamie is also an honorable man.
01:06:17
So if Jamie were to come to him and say, yeah, your mom
01:06:21
basically blackmailed me because she didn't want to be a virgin
01:06:25
when she got married to this 80 something year old man, William
01:06:28
could always say you might be lying.
01:06:32
I mean, think about it. She he even asked Claire like,
01:06:34
was it rape? And I'm like, do you everything
01:06:37
that you know about Claire? Do you think Claire will be with
01:06:40
Jamie if he raped, like if he raped Geneva?
01:06:45
And not only that, but the product of that, quote, UN quote
01:06:47
rape was walking around? That's not clear.
01:06:50
Right. And I'm gonna talk about it with
01:06:51
you like that. Don't even seem.
01:06:54
Yeah. Right.
01:06:55
But again, he's he's a little. Place he's spiraling so.
01:07:01
Yeah, so I, but I just, again, like I said, I just kind of
01:07:07
wanna reach through the screen and kind of give him a hug and
01:07:11
say it's gonna be OK. But yeah, he's going to have to
01:07:14
go through some stuff because now he really, really has to
01:07:17
grow up. Yeah, he.
01:07:19
Does like, no doubt about it now there's way too much stuff going
01:07:25
on. And then depending on what
01:07:27
happens with Lord John, like if he wasn't shot, but maybe he was
01:07:31
recaptured, that's going to add some stuff.
01:07:33
And then once they started realizing, OK, there might be
01:07:38
something seriously wrong because he has not come back
01:07:41
yet, just like with Missus Fix saying, yeah, so Lord John was
01:07:47
supposed to, he was supposed to go to General Clinton, and he
01:07:51
hasn't shown up yet. And that's when Jamie and Claire
01:07:53
realized that he's been recalled to action.
01:07:57
Now they really going to have to see him be like, oh, shit, what
01:07:59
do we do? Like Jamie is going to have to
01:08:01
go and fix that somehow. And I don't know how he's going
01:08:06
to do that unless, oh, wait, unless he calls on his new
01:08:11
friend George Washington, and be like, hey, I know he's a British
01:08:14
soldier. I know he's an enemy.
01:08:17
But did you do me a favor? And release him and release him.
01:08:21
That's what I thought was going to happen.
01:08:23
But when he didn't mention and he didn't mention it, I was
01:08:26
like, well damn. He's just really just leaving
01:08:28
them out there to drive. Because he probably didn't think
01:08:32
that it was going to be something that serious.
01:08:36
Because this is, again, like, like Lord John said, this is a
01:08:39
distant cousin that would be like me being held responsible
01:08:46
for something that one of my second or third cousins who I've
01:08:50
never met has done. But back then, I guess they
01:08:56
really don't care. They're like, oh, your name is
01:08:57
Grey. OK, you'll do.
01:08:59
Yeah, that's it. That's all we need.
01:09:02
That's all we need. That's all we need.
01:09:04
But no, not that one. Y'all can't have him.
01:09:07
No. So something's gonna have to
01:09:11
happen whether he has another escape attempt or whether
01:09:16
somebody comes to his rescue and be like OK, look, y'all can't
01:09:21
hang this man because ABC. Something's gonna have to happen
01:09:27
though, because Lord John needs 1.
01:09:30
He needs to escape so he can go get that ugly ass eye looked at
01:09:34
because that thing looks. Horrible, horrible.
01:09:37
Horrible. It does.
01:09:39
Like, like Jamie, were you only focusing on the left side of his
01:09:43
face? Right.
01:09:45
Oh my goodness. So yeah, he needs to get that
01:09:48
taken care of before he's permanently mine.
01:09:51
And then he'll be no good to nobody because they're just
01:09:56
going to look at him and be like, oh, you're blind, you
01:09:59
can't serve in the Army, you can't do this, you can't do
01:10:02
that. What good are you?
01:10:03
That's how they're going to treat him.
01:10:06
It's bad though. It it, it really is.
01:10:08
It is 'cause he can't even move his eyeball up and down.
01:10:13
So yeah, he needs to be rescued. He needs to escape.
01:10:19
Whatever part. Pardon him, Whatever.
01:10:22
Yeah, part part of him. Because 1 He didn't go into the
01:10:26
town to blow it up. That was his cousin who did all
01:10:29
that. And no, just leave him alone.
01:10:33
I'm just. I'm just to the point where I'm
01:10:35
like, leave the Fraser's alone. Leave Ian alone.
01:10:39
Leave Lord John Gray alone. Give them some time to get
01:10:44
through all this mess, this big mess that they have made of
01:10:49
their lives. And I guess let Jamie go to war
01:10:54
and take his frustrations out on killing British soldiers.
01:10:58
I don't know. I don't know.
01:11:01
I'm just, oh, that that episode was so hard to watch at the
01:11:06
beginning because I knew what was coming.
01:11:10
And Lord John, the whole thing with Jamie being dead, Lord
01:11:14
John, Mary and Claire sleeping with her.
01:11:17
That was something I was spoiled about years ago before I ever
01:11:22
read it in the book. So I knew it was coming.
01:11:24
But I thought it was more of a like, when people said Lord John
01:11:28
and Claire slept together, I really was thinking I was like,
01:11:34
they must have, I don't know, maybe falling in love with each
01:11:38
other in their grief because I didn't know what the time span
01:11:42
was. I just knew that this happened.
01:11:44
So I was like, OK. And then they're like, yeah,
01:11:46
when Jamie finally came back, he beat Lord John almost to death.
01:11:50
And I was just like. What?
01:11:54
So yeah, it was a, it was a hard watch.
01:11:59
I literally had to keep pausing it 'cause I was just like, I
01:12:03
don't know how this is gonna go. And then every Time Lord John
01:12:07
opened his mouth, I had the positive.
01:12:09
You like, shut up, John, shut up, John, you're making it
01:12:11
worse. You're making it worse.
01:12:13
Shut up. Why are you saying this?
01:12:15
Why did you say that? Oh, my God, It's, that's
01:12:19
literally how I watched this episode because it was just so
01:12:22
much. And I was just sitting there
01:12:24
tense. And when I say David Berry and
01:12:29
and Sam Hewin, they nailed that scene because you could feel
01:12:36
everything coming off of them in waves.
01:12:38
And I was just like, I can't do this.
01:12:40
I can't watch this. Please kiss and make up or do
01:12:43
some shake hands and make up or do just do something and make up
01:12:46
and go home because no one was going to happen.
01:12:49
Like I'm like, no, I know Lord John is about to be captured and
01:12:53
all this stuff. I don't want that.
01:12:54
Just make up and be happy and just OK.
01:12:59
But yeah, it's not going to happen anytime soon.
01:13:04
They just need to rescue him though.
01:13:06
Yeah. That's all I'm saying.
01:13:08
Rescue him and then give us a little bit more of Ian and
01:13:12
Rachel now that they are like fully.
01:13:15
Oh, now they are trolled. Because let me tell you now that
01:13:18
they are controlling. Yes.
01:13:21
Rachel I have a feeling we're about to see a whole different
01:13:24
side to Rachel. Because right, that's not tell.
01:13:25
I told you, I want that cap. I want that cap off.
01:13:27
I want that cap off. I want I want that woman.
01:13:32
Woman seen. Wonder Woman seen.
01:13:37
Yeah. Campo take that hair and she in
01:13:41
battle take somebody. Slapping British soldiers.
01:13:44
Yes, take him down for her, man, Take him down.
01:13:49
Oh goodness. Yeah.
01:13:53
OK, but did we skip over anything?
01:13:57
I feel like we missed something but I don't.
01:14:01
I think we talked about. Everything we talked about,
01:14:04
everything. OK, I guess if we miss
01:14:08
something, we'll just we'll we'll pick it up and.
01:14:11
We talked about we because they they was really focused on
01:14:17
William. William and then Laura.
01:14:20
John, Laura. John and Jamie and Claire.
01:14:24
Yeah, OK. Yeah.
01:14:28
Because I I. 'Cause we didn't get a lot of of
01:14:31
anyone else or anything else. No, because this this was like
01:14:35
literally the explosive episode this was.
01:14:37
Right, that's what I'm saying this is.
01:14:39
This is just a fallout from that one scene at the end of last
01:14:43
episode. And I knew when when they
01:14:46
released the episode titles and I saw that this one was carnal
01:14:51
knowledge, I said, OK, I'm gonna have to prepare for this one
01:14:53
because I knew this one was going to be a heavy episode.
01:14:56
I knew I was like, oh, I'm gonna have to see John, Lord John get
01:15:00
his ass whooped. That's why in the last episode
01:15:02
when you were like, yeah, they just need to fight it out a
01:15:05
little bit and that'll be all right.
01:15:07
I was like, oh, be careful what you asked for because that
01:15:12
wasn't a little fight like. No.
01:15:15
I think in the I think he wasn't as bad in the show as he was in
01:15:19
the books, because I do believe in the books he was.
01:15:22
I think I think Jamie may have broken some ribs or something
01:15:25
like he was, he was hurt. Oh, he was hurt, hurt.
01:15:30
So, OK, so just in case this is the holiday season, Michelle and
01:15:41
I both work in education and we are kind of finishing up this
01:15:45
week before the break. So our episodes maybe a couple
01:15:48
of days late, but we are still recording as soon as we can find
01:15:53
the time. And, you know, our regular
01:15:56
recording schedule for the remainder of the year is
01:15:59
probably going to be kind of sporadic because trying to
01:16:03
wrangle the two of us is hard enough, but also with the guys
01:16:08
trying to do the stuff that we are doing and all of our
01:16:12
schedules, it's just kind of impossible right now.
01:16:14
But we are going to be bringing you newer episodes, especially
01:16:18
in January. We will be covering Doom
01:16:21
Prophecy. Laurie will be back with us
01:16:25
after an extended hiatus to deal with some personal stuff.
01:16:29
So Laurie will be back to discuss doing Prophecy with us.
01:16:33
Marvel's What If is coming out in a few days for the final
01:16:39
season. Oh, is it?
01:16:41
Yes, December 22nd and then. An.
01:16:44
Episode every day for eight days and that is the season series
01:16:50
finale, so we will be covering that.
01:16:52
We still have a Darrell Dixon episode to talk about.
01:16:55
We still have a few episodes for the boys to talk about, so we
01:17:00
will be bringing you that content starting at the
01:17:05
beginning of 2025. But for now, that is it for our
01:17:08
show. You can find us online at
01:17:10
www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media, on all
01:17:14
the social media at Phantom Hybrid.
01:17:17
You can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, you can chat
01:17:19
with us on our Discord channel, and you can listen to us on all
01:17:23
major podcast streaming platforms.
01:17:25
Thanks for listening. We hope you join the
01:17:26
conversation next time. Music.