#marvel #whatif In the final episodes for this series, Peggy Carter, Kahhori, Byrdie the Duck, and Ororo "Storm" Munro are on a rescue mission when shards of The Observational Plane find them, signaling that The Watcher is in trouble. After coming up with a plan to save him (which includes a very unlikely ally), they must battle with The Order of the Watchers to save Uatu and the universes they have saved with his help. Oaths will be sworn, sacrifices will be made, but will that be enough?
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What's up hybrids? Welcome back to another episode
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of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I am here
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with Anthony and Mike, and we are discussing the last two
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episodes of the What If series. Yeah, we decided we were going
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to go ahead and discuss both episodes together since they're
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both dealing with the trial and the outcome of the trial of the
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watcher who has found himself in a little bit of trouble because
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of his interference and to all of the multiverse stuff.
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So yeah, let's get started. I'm going to start with Mike
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first, 'cause are you glad that we got to see Birdie the Duck as
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an adult? I am and shout to Natasha Lyonne
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for giving her the absolute spot on perfect voice for it.
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Like I love I I loved her in this.
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It was awesome. But the thing I love most and
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the reason I've waited for this moment is because we got Storm
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in this bitch. We finally have an X-Men.
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So a member of the X-Men in a what if episode.
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And this is I'm excited for this.
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X-Men in the MCU confirmed. Well, technically.
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It was confirmed with Deadpool and Wolverine, but you.
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Know, I mean technically it was confirmed with the Marvels when
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they had when they had Beast in there.
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And it was confirmed with the Adamantium Celestial island,
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but. We'll talk.
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About that later. Confirmed when Quicksilver was
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in one division and they switched them to Adam.
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Wait. A minute so So now we're saying
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all of this, I'm realizing just how much they're pulling the
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X-Men into the MCU. They just been kind of but I'm
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in little hints there, but. Regard but yes, but storm like
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her power level, her wielding mule near like Oh my God that
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was beautiful and I like it also because most of my favorite what
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if episodes have something to do with the X-Men.
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Like, well, my favorites is what if Charles Xavier got the Gemma
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Sutorak instead of his brother and he became Juggernaut, which
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is a it's a really good, really good comic.
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And they they've done a lot of actually have a couple in my in
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my what if collection. I have a couple of of the X-Men,
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X-Men and The Avengers did something.
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I can't remember but that, but they're a big part of what if,
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and I'm surprised that it I'm a little surprised that it took
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them this long to actually include them.
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But yes, I love both of these episodes.
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Shout out to Marvel for giving us a Dragon Ball Z fight scene
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in the final episode where they were just like fighting all over
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the fucking skyline and that shit was beautiful.
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And shout out to watch who just being a menace, like turning all
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four of them into fucking watchers.
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They're making the like giving giving them a shortcut oath.
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I'm like. Listen.
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Listen, This is why you in trouble now.
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This is why you do it all because you just all Willy nilly
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about your watcher. This just throwing it here and
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there. I mean fuck.
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But having said that, they were fucking phenomenal.
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Like holy shit, Peggy Carter was a fucking beast as as a fucking
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watcher and shelter. They did bring her back for
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these two episodes because I think we had just mentioned it
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like maybe a couple of episodes ago talking about this series
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that we had not seen Peggy Carter at all in this third
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season, which was kind of weird considering at the end of last
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season a while to like literally showed her the tree and told her
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the truth about the multiverse. So it was kind of strange that
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she hadn't popped up yet. So I'm glad that she showed up
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in this one. And not only you have heard you
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have birdie the duck, you have storm, you have cohort.
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So it's like we we in this series with four very strong
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women characters who literally say the fucking multiverse.
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Yeah, this. Literally this.
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Literally the Watchers version of Charlie's Angels.
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And I am here for every last piece of that.
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Literally just awesome. That's an interesting point,
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Anthony. What did you think about these
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final 2 episodes? I didn't hate them.
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I'll, I'll start. With that, that's the start.
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I didn't hate them. OK, I'm going to, I'm going to
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reference back to what I said before.
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I have to kind of step back and just say, you know what it is,
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what it is, and just kind of enjoy it.
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But it is very, very difficult because now I'm looking at it
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like objectively from a fresh point of view.
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These people are so freaking overpowered.
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Like they are so overpowered. And then they go up against the
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Watchers and he makes them even more overpowered.
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And then in the end, you, you in order to defeat them, you had to
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have an even more overpowered individual, well, universe to
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stop them. And I don't know, I, I feel like
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it was getting kind of out of hand.
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Like the there's a thing in video games called power creep
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and it even happens in comic books.
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Power creep is real. And I I understand that it does
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happen in comic books. Like can you?
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Explain power creep, Sir. Power creep is when when you
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have individuals who are powerful and then they have to
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fight powerful people and in order for them to defeat them,
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they have to become even more powerful.
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For example, Jean Grey with the Phoenix Force, so she gets more
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powerful. She's like reality, she's like
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the right now. She is the creation of life
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itself. And then the villain comes in
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who absorbs her power so she has to become even more powerful,
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which how can she be defeated if she is so powerful?
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And here we have imagine Storm who controls who's a mega level
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mutant who control weather anywhere anywhere.
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She has me on here, which means her the God of Thunder
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everywhere. And now she's a watcher there.
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I don't know she's and then we were already told that Bertie is
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a cosmic being who is ultimately OP.
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And then you have cohortie who does whatever she can, like
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super speed. I got you flying, I got you
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portals. I got you telekinesis.
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I got you. What can she not do?
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And I'm, I'm looking at this group, these these guardians of
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the multiverse and I'm like, wow, how are they going to
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defeat the watchers? The answer is obvious, become
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watchers. And, and it was ridiculous.
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I will give them credit for the special effects.
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Like it made me think of the first episode, like how good the
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animation was. It was really, really good.
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Really fantastic voice work, really fantastic.
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Not feeling the story too much. I, I watched it again this
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afternoon and I found myself laughing.
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This is funny. I'm like, this is, this is
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ridiculous. It really is.
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But you know, it is cool. I'll see what they're doing.
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You know, I think they're getting us ready for because
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we're going to see something like this when we get to super
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wars probably. And you know, hopefully they
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don't go to Supreme Strangers universe to have the Street of
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Wars. They'll just shed everybody's
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powers off. They call it the day.
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I did like the Eminences opening when if you listen to it, it's
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really, really good. It's really good.
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The one thing he said is, I can't remember what he said, but
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he basically was like, no, it's not.
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He described it and he said, but that's not what it is.
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This is what people think it is, but that's not what it is.
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What it is, is a prism through which there's an infinite number
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of universe. Possibilities.
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Yeah, possibilities. Yeah.
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And he explains, he says, where every little decision can cause
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a change. And that's the nature of what
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if. I just don't feel like we got
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it. So I kind of feel bad they they
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went back to that and put that in his mother log when that's
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really not what we got this season.
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But I mean, overall it, it was OK.
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I mean, I can see how people, some people would enjoy it and
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think it's amazing and you know, be excited about it, but it was
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just alright to me. OK.
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I like the last episode, not the last episode, but I like the
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previous episode with Sean Sheen better.
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OK, Yeah. Than both of them.
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Yes, than both of them. OK, yes.
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So when the Infinity Ultron kind of let me down, I was like,
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dude, really did all that power. But you know.
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Yeah, but it's like. It shows you how powerful the
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watches are. This guy wiped out the entire
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universe and. But look but you gotta think
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about like this too. When he was fighting the
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Watcher, the Watcher was given was was giving as good as he was
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getting for a second until until Ultron caught him.
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Like he was literally he was literally giving him those
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hands. So yeah.
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It was like, oh, surprise, surprise.
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He flashed a bright light in my face.
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OK, now I'm used to it. Right.
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And then but it's like, because Awatu got his power from
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Eminence, so it's like Eminence has been a watcher for way
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longer than Watu has. So you know, his power level is
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probably ridiculous. All three of them.
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Exactly. Yeah.
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And Ultron can save reality, but you know.
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Whatever. Yeah, but it's like they
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basically are. They basically are reality.
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Yeah, yeah. I think for me, I kind of fall
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in between both of your opinions.
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I enjoyed the episodes. I won't say they were my
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favorite. There were certain elements of
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it that I really liked. I really liked the friendship
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aspect between the women in the episode, just kind of seeing the
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closeness and seeing how well they work together in order to
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figure out the problem, in order to, you know, execute a plan and
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do all this. I like that.
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I think the weird thing for me was at the beginning of the
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episode when the you know, they're they're trying to help.
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Oh my God, why did her, why did my name, why did that?
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Why did I just blank they? They went to go help, not
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Gamora. Yeah, Nebula.
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Novus Prime. Nebula Which prime?
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Which was really weird. I'm glad they I'm glad they
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threw back to that because I think that that episode is one
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of my favorite episodes of all the what ifs.
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I think that's probably one of my one of my all time favorites.
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Yeah, but when they when the shards come through and Peggy
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sees the shards that she realized it's from the Watcher
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from the 5th dimension or from the the Wood observational
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plane. Observational plane.
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When she realizes it's from the observational plane and she
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realizes it's for the watcher, she is actually not the one that
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voices it. It's cohorted.
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It says that means the watcher. And it was strange to me because
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I think we talked about this a few episodes ago where only a
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few people knew about Owatu's existence and that being Peggy
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Carter, that being Natasha Romanov.
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And I really think that's it. Infinity Ultron knew he existed.
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Infinity Ultron. Infinity Ultron, but for cohort
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and. Storm.
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And birdie, birdie the duck to all kind of know who he is.
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And it seemed like they had not just a surface level knowledge
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of him, they kind of knew, I guess, everything that Peggy
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knew about him. So it was just kind of weird.
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Yes, Anthony, you have your hand.
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Up in in my head cannon, I assumed I may be right or wrong.
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I assumed that Peggy put this team together with his help.
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So you know, 'cause I mean, I lovingly call them the Guardians
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of the Multiverse after the previous guardians of the
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Multiverse. But I think he and her, which
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is, you know, according to the eminence, she's the wicked, you
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know, she had, she used his knowledge to find the people
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that can help her do what they need to do.
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OK. And I think that's how they knew
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about him. I think they may have talked
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before they met him. Well, you know, or Peggy told
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them about him, but she was, she put this team together.
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Yeah, yeah. And I realized that there's also
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not necessarily time jump, but it's been a while because the
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last time we saw Bertie, she was just born and now she's a she's
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a full grown adult. So I realized some time has
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taken place and some things may have happened in between there,
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but it was just strange for me for them to be speaking about
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the watcher and the observational plan and all of
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that. So familiar, you know, they
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were, they were. So it was just, it was strange
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to me. Yeah, and Peggy probably told
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him about the stuff that he's done.
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She probably told him about Infinity Ultron because they're
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like, oh really? You want to get that guy, but
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he's dead? Well, it's multiverse.
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Yeah. There's a version of him out
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there somewhere. Yeah.
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Yeah, which is which is really intimidating to think about.
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Like that's a powerful motherfucker.
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They're like more versions of this motherfucker out there that
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they need to destroy. Also, I kind I agree with you
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because like when they first reached Xandar, Peggy was in the
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in the cane capsule and she said set course for Xandar 625.
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I have eyes on the Hydra champion.
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So there are they're obviously doing something where they're
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either they're course correcting things that are going wrong or
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like, like I said, they're they're watches angels.
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They've been like he's basically sending them on missions to to
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fix things in the multiverse that aren't supposed to be
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happening, mostly because they're his.
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Fault being a being a menace because he's like.
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But but all these things are his fault because he's the one
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that's doing all this extra shit and not just watching like he's
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the one that's interfering. So all his interference is
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probably are doing having a butterfly effect on the whole
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multiverse. Like when you say that kid from
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getting thrown off the train in the previous episode, he
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probably created a butterfly effect that probably created
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this hydra on Xandar. It's like they're all kinds of
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things that he these fucking balances up and that's why all
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three of them are like real this motherfucking.
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And I'm tired of this because. Yeah, because I'm sort of, I
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sort of agree with the Eminence, because he probably has.
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He's seen every permeation of every possibility, period.
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If it wasn't for a while too, we wouldn't have.
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Doctor Strange wouldn't have his own universe, right If it wasn't
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for a while too. A lot of the stuff that's
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happening wouldn't be happening if he kept his mouth shut.
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Infinity Ultron wouldn't have done what he did, which created
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all this other crap that's happening.
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So he sort of has a point. I mean, but why too has a point
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too. Like, at what point do you how,
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how much can you sit by and, and not do anything and not start
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caring for people? But you know, the Eminence has
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had eons to deal with that question.
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And it seems like Oahu they didn't because, you know, even
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when they did the flashback to when Oahu was promoted to
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watcher, he said he asked the question like, basically, what
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what are we supposed to do with watching?
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And the Eminence is like, well, I'll be surprised to find out
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what answer you found to that question.
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Well, you found out what the answer was to that question.
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You know, so he sort of he could be blamed for setting these
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events in motion because he should have seen how you even by
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his question. Like anytime you have a person
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entering into a cult that starts to question what the cult is
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doing, that can create problems for the cult because then that
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person is starting to question the dogma that we've created.
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Then that person might become a problem.
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And the watch who became a menace, he started messing with
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things and was probably going to cause the collapse of the
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multiverse in the imminence. They're sitting there.
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Well, it's not going to affect us.
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It probably has happened before. We don't know.
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He's probably seen a lot of this stuff happened before and he's
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like, yeah, it's going to work yourself out in the end.
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A watch is probably not the first one of the watchers that
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he's had to rein in and get rid of.
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Like he's probably he's probably made of the watchers.
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Then they interfered and they're like, Nope, get him.
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And they and that's why that's why they had an opening for Y2
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because they just got rid of one that was doing the exact same
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fucking thing that he's doing now.
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So it's like, you know, he just can't, he just can't get this
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column column Y2 can't get right because he just can't do what
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he's supposed to fucking do. Let's.
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Say. That, but I kind of agree with
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the Y2. Yeah, that's what I was going to
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say, because it's kind of like if you're one of the things
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about the, I can't remember what the the collective group is
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called the three watchers that are over everything.
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One of the things about them is they're watching the watchers
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and the watchers are the ones who have their own sections of
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the universe of the multiverse to watch.
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So it's kind of like you wouldn't expect those 3 to be
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changed by anything because they are not really watching anything
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or paying attention to anything closely enough to be affected on
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the level that a Watu is. A Watu is actually watching
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these beings in this particular part of the universe.
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He's seeing their struggles, he's seeing their stories.
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He's, he's being affected by the humanity of them, which I don't
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think the other three would ever have the opportunity to do
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because they don't interact with humans directly or indirectly.
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You know, it's kind of like 6° of separation.
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So while I understand what the Eminence is saying as far as
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what Owatu was expected to do or how he was expected to behave, I
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think because Owatu was so close to humanity and he was able to
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allow it to change and whether whether he wanted it to or not.
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But that's one of the things I think about people when it comes
00:19:40
to like cosmic beings and humanity and universe, because
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all of these cosmic beings, no matter what type of show we
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watch, they always think they're more superior to humanity,
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right? Because we have the emotions and
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we're the ones who let those emotions kind of affect the way
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we the way we think, the way we act.
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We don't kind of keep ourselves arm's length.
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And I think that's one of the things that Owatu.
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Is trying to as like he says at the end, this is something that
00:20:09
I can teach you because it doesn't have to be a bad thing.
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It's almost like when Infinity Ultron was talking about it, he
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said, you know, I was created to, you know, bring about peace
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and in order to bring about peace, I eliminated all life.
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But what I have learned is that this is not peace.
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It's just emptiness. Like you can't have life without
00:20:34
people, but you can't also can't have peace without conflict.
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Like there has to be a balance, yin and Yang, you know?
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There has to be that balance in the universe.
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And I think that's one of the things that Owatu was trying to
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tell the other three. But the other three, they're so
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far removed from it that they don't have the, the openness to,
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to actually sit there and listen to what he's saying or to look
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at what he's doing, to say, hey, he might actually be improving
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things. You know, it may be catastrophes
00:21:08
for them or maybe chaos for them.
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But it's because you're so set in this one focus, this one
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thing. Oh, it has to go this way, this
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way, this way. And you don't allow for those
00:21:19
variables. Maybe that's why things are
00:21:22
fucking up, because y'all are so inflexible.
00:21:25
Maybe it has nothing to do with. Him I had, I had two points I
00:21:29
was going to make. I can only remember 1.
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So you, you got the three. It is this, this is one of my
00:21:38
issues with the eminence and it's sort of related to kind of
00:21:43
piggybacking off of what Hanukkah said.
00:21:45
They are literally sitting in their white tower removed from
00:21:49
everything, and they have this elitist attitude about
00:21:54
everything. Like completely we are above
00:21:58
reproach. We are above all of this.
00:22:01
But that's not. Topical excuse.
00:22:03
Me. That's not topical at all.
00:22:06
Yeah, you, you, you are. And, and nothing and nothing can
00:22:11
touch you. And everything that you're doing
00:22:13
is so altruistic and so perfect. Like, who appointed y'all to
00:22:17
this position? You appointed yourselves to this
00:22:20
you and it's very similar to how they're they're looked at in the
00:22:24
comic books. If you watch the comic books, a
00:22:26
lot of people got problems with the watchers because you are
00:22:31
doing what you're doing, because you decided that's what you want
00:22:33
to do. No one asked you to be a
00:22:35
watcher. No one appointed you to be the
00:22:38
the scribe for the multiverse. No one asked you to do that.
00:22:42
You chose to do that. So by you not participating, you
00:22:45
not helping people, and you not being a part of the process,
00:22:50
you're making it worse for a lot of people than they could be.
00:22:54
But I understand. I understand them completely.
00:22:58
There's an infinite number of multiverses.
00:23:00
There's no possible way one being can destroy them all,
00:23:05
because for everyone that you destroy, another one springs up
00:23:09
because every decision, every consequence creates another
00:23:12
universe. So it's not possible to get rid
00:23:16
of all of them. I understand that.
00:23:18
What? In that same token, it didn't
00:23:20
hurt you to help some people every once in a while, and
00:23:24
that's what the Wachu was doing. He had his little section of
00:23:27
multiverses that he was watching.
00:23:29
And if he can make a difference to help, how many times is he
00:23:33
going to have to sit there in his section universe and watch
00:23:36
Ray Williams die like every version of her die over and over
00:23:42
and over again? I give you this one a chance.
00:23:45
Let me give you this one a chance.
00:23:47
And what you do, like you said, you prune some of the bad ones
00:23:51
and it causes life to flourish. Right.
00:23:54
So he saves her how many multiverses that are created
00:23:58
where she makes a difference and changes people's lives for the
00:24:01
better? Yeah.
00:24:05
That's the truth. It's the butterfly I.
00:24:08
Can't remember the point but. Anything, anything you do in one
00:24:11
universe is going to inadvertently or advertently
00:24:14
affect what's going to happen in another universe.
00:24:16
It's just how things are. It's just how it works in these
00:24:20
kind of scenarios, in these kind of situations.
00:24:22
It's like there's always something minor that you change
00:24:26
somewhere that's going to wreak havoc somewhere else.
00:24:29
It's like so and. That's why watchers get their
00:24:32
asses kicked in the comic books, because people don't like what
00:24:34
they do. You sit there off to the side,
00:24:37
and you watch all this pain and suffering, and you could do
00:24:40
something to help, and you choose not to.
00:24:42
Yeah, it's wrong. Yeah.
00:24:43
What's? Wrong.
00:24:44
I think Reed Richards tried to wipe them out once.
00:24:46
I mean, they did terrible they are.
00:24:50
OK, so Speaking of watches getting the ass kicked, let's
00:24:53
talk about this fight scene. And this is one of one of the
00:24:57
best anime fight scenes Disney has ever put on.
00:25:00
Like that shit looks straight up like Dragon Ball Z.
00:25:02
Like when when and The Eminence were fighting, it's like their
00:25:06
hands were moving so fucking fast.
00:25:08
Like, Oh my God. I mean, it was, there was so
00:25:12
many, there were so many aspects to it because yes, I did get a
00:25:16
Dragon Ball Z vibe to it when I saw some of it.
00:25:19
And then there was a point where I can't remember which one it
00:25:23
was Cohort was fighting one and then another one appeared behind
00:25:29
her and he was, he was enlarged. And she was like, oh, that's
00:25:34
what you're doing. OK, bet.
00:25:36
Let me match that. And then she got big too.
00:25:39
And it kind of reminded me of the Agatha and Kingo fight from
00:25:45
a few episodes ago where they were both kind of these
00:25:48
celestial beings that were like bigger than everything they were
00:25:51
fighting in space. One that.
00:25:52
Starts with a yeah. Ash.
00:25:58
Ash, Ash. Ash.
00:25:59
Yes, Ash. So yeah, it was.
00:26:04
There was a lot going on in those fights, but I love the way
00:26:07
that they did them because like you said, Anthony, you know,
00:26:11
when you start out, you have these four people and they're
00:26:15
already overpowered. They're already very powerful.
00:26:20
And and the fact that you have all four of them fighting
00:26:22
together on the same team, and then you have Infinity Ultron,
00:26:25
which was already weird e-mail watch.
00:26:27
It was like, wait, he's with you.
00:26:29
Yeah, yeah, he's with us. But then you have a watch when
00:26:35
when they're on the verge of defeat, a watch.
00:26:37
It was like, OK, look, there's a way for us to get out of this,
00:26:40
but you're going to have to make a oath.
00:26:42
And they're sitting there like, so you want us to become like
00:26:45
them. And Storm was like little we'll
00:26:46
figure it out afterwards. Just say the damn word so that
00:26:49
we. Can yeah yeah, yeah birdie
00:26:50
birdie was like can I can I see can I see the much we'll call it
00:26:54
what she say she's a she wanted she wanted to see the bylaws
00:26:58
before before she agreed to it you.
00:27:00
Don't have time to do that because you're getting your ass
00:27:03
whooped. They didn't have time to go
00:27:04
through the four pages of Quote of of Oats that he tried to have
00:27:08
them have them a repeat too. He was like, I state your name
00:27:11
will solemnly swear to that and I'm like, you ain't got time for
00:27:14
that. I'm like, why are you going
00:27:15
through 4 pages of what you going to do?
00:27:18
I'm like fuck it, just say I do. Right, right.
00:27:22
And then that that image of them all in the suit.
00:27:25
And this is the first time that we actually see Oatu with legs.
00:27:29
You know, it's kind of like that they've all got these these
00:27:33
suits on and they're all glowing.
00:27:34
And I was just like, OK, so we're on a more level playing
00:27:39
field. And it still was it?
00:27:42
Because it's almost like it was like watching a old 80s
00:27:47
wrestling match with Hulk Hogan. It's like you have you have one
00:27:51
side that's kind of overpowering and you looks like and and it
00:27:54
looks like the other team is about to be defeated.
00:27:56
And then all of a sudden they have their Hulk Hogan moment.
00:27:59
And then it goes the opposite way.
00:28:01
This is kind of like who's going to win and how and like are are
00:28:06
they actually going to have to kill people?
00:28:08
Because you really thought at some point that the, the the
00:28:11
women were going to kill the eminence because he just
00:28:15
wouldn't back down no matter how they were getting defeated, no
00:28:20
matter what can because he really thought, OK, you know
00:28:23
what, we got this. We're the most powerful beings
00:28:25
in the universe. We we got this.
00:28:28
And every time they started getting defeated, he just got to
00:28:32
a point we was like, no OK, y'all just going to have to kill
00:28:35
me? I'm not.
00:28:36
I'm not giving in. I'm not letting up.
00:28:38
I'm not doing nothing. Even when even when the White 2
00:28:42
showed him mercy, he was like, I ain't teach you everything.
00:28:47
Yeah, I'm trying to wipe them people off out of existence.
00:28:51
And then you ain't got no power but.
00:28:54
When Agatha said mercy is overrated when she was being
00:28:56
pursued by the Salem 7. I'm like you don't just don't
00:28:59
no, just don't don't do that. You yeah, I understand, but
00:29:03
don't like Nah, but I shout out to shout out to Peggy grabbing
00:29:09
the walk, grabbing one of the watchers by the roof of his
00:29:11
mouth and rag doll again like. That.
00:29:15
Was I was like. I was thinking of the the the
00:29:20
God moment from revenge. But.
00:29:22
There was there was another moment in this episode where one
00:29:25
of the where one of the three watches did that with.
00:29:29
What's going birdie? Was it?
00:29:31
Yeah. And I was like, oh this is like
00:29:34
now kiss and boom. And like smashed them together
00:29:36
and. I was like and and did this
00:29:39
thing. Yeah, he was like.
00:29:41
OK, and kiss. Wow, I was like shit, that's.
00:29:45
And I figured out that's why they had to get of Infinity
00:29:48
Ultron because imagine Infinity Ultron with watcher power that
00:29:53
that would have been a problem. That would have been a huge
00:29:56
problem. That would have been a problem.
00:29:58
That would have been a huge problem.
00:29:59
Yeah, yeah. But so I'm kind of I guess I'm
00:30:07
kind of torn because, you know, these were the last two episodes
00:30:10
for the What if series. It's it's, it's done now and I,
00:30:16
I don't quite know how I feel about.
00:30:19
It I'm glad, I'm happy, kind of. It's over.
00:30:23
I'm not. We don't have to go back,
00:30:25
revisit this. If they're not going to do it
00:30:27
right, then just don't do it. And, and I guess that's the
00:30:31
that's the thing, because part of me likes the anthology
00:30:36
version of it, like you like you like Anthony.
00:30:39
But also I feel like the way that they did the first two
00:30:43
seasons where you had these little anthologies, but then
00:30:46
they they kind of came together to make a big bigger story.
00:30:49
Like we're kind of used to the Marvel movies doing.
00:30:53
I like that part of it because those first two seasons, they
00:30:58
made sense in a way, you know, as far as what the end story was
00:31:02
for the first season, what the end story was for the second
00:31:05
season, how the how those stories converge and, and make
00:31:09
made this bigger story. It made sense and it was good.
00:31:13
And I remember like going back listening to our episodes,
00:31:16
discussing that we all like the first two seasons better.
00:31:20
They just, I don't know, maybe the story was better, the
00:31:22
writing was better. The maybe it was just because
00:31:25
there were characters there that we were used to seeing and
00:31:29
seeing them in different verses of themselves, like, you know,
00:31:32
T'challa being Star Lord and Killmonger having, you know, the
00:31:37
the Black Panther powers. It was just, I don't know,
00:31:40
something about the first two seasons felt more, I don't know
00:31:46
if they felt more cohesive this season, just it was kind of like
00:31:51
all over the place. I don't know if it was cohesion
00:31:55
as much as it they were closer to the spirit of the comic
00:32:01
books. OK, Like what if Killmonger
00:32:04
became Black Panther and that's that's the easy story to tell.
00:32:11
What if Pat Carter got the Super soldier serum instead of Steve?
00:32:16
Right. Easy story to tell.
00:32:18
You know what I'm saying? Those are the kind of stories
00:32:21
that what if is known for in the comic book world, those moments
00:32:26
that change everything, you know, so we can think if we if
00:32:32
we think of think of the MCU movies and you know, what if
00:32:40
what if, what's his name defeating Iron Man in Iron Man?
00:32:43
2:00 What if he had actually killed him?
00:32:46
Like what, what would be the ramifications of that, you know,
00:32:50
or what if they never found Cap? How would The Avengers have
00:32:56
turned out? You know what I'm saying?
00:32:59
So there, there are ways, there are things that the decisions
00:33:03
that create the what ifs. It it made a little bit more
00:33:07
sense in those first couple of seasons, a little bit.
00:33:13
The T'challa and Star Lord is still weird to me, but it was
00:33:17
fun. I mean, this this season still
00:33:20
had something. I mean, the one with the Red
00:33:23
Guardian and The Winter Soldier was was was basically a what if.
00:33:27
Like what if, what if Red Guardian stopped The Winter
00:33:29
Soldier from complete, I mean, from killing Howard Stark.
00:33:32
Yeah, that's that's a what if. Yeah.
00:33:34
But we didn't, we didn't get a. We didn't get a lot of that.
00:33:38
I don't see. I mean, we didn't get much of
00:33:41
that. I mean the one, the one with
00:33:43
Rhode Island, Rhode Island is was basically what if, what if
00:33:46
the what if the what if the eternal actually busted through?
00:33:50
What would happen? Yeah, what if the emergence
00:33:52
actually happened? What if the emergence happened?
00:33:54
I mean there. I I see what you're saying
00:33:56
though. I mean there there's some that
00:33:58
aren't that aren't as good of a what if story as in the previous
00:34:03
ones. Right, because if you based it
00:34:05
on the Eternals, you would say it would have been an Eternals
00:34:09
episode. It wouldn't have been a Rio
00:34:10
Williams episode in my What if the emergence had happened?
00:34:14
What if the Eternals didn't stop the Emergence?
00:34:17
Right. It wouldn't necessarily have
00:34:19
been about RiRi Williams. It would have been about the
00:34:21
eternal. Well, I mean, after after the
00:34:24
emergence, I think the Eternals are recalled anyway, so it's
00:34:27
like they couldn't have done anything about it.
00:34:30
Yeah, it's like the the like they would have been recalled by
00:34:32
the Celestials to go to another planet and start it all over
00:34:34
again. That's true, the episode would
00:34:36
have could have been better because it was too I guess.
00:34:41
I guess I'm saying it was too much and it should be on a
00:34:45
smaller scale. Yeah.
00:34:47
Like what if? What if Miss Miss Monroe had
00:34:51
defeated or never you? Know Mysterio.
00:34:55
Mysterio. Sorry.
00:34:56
Mysterio. Mysterio had hadn't had defeated
00:35:00
Peter Parker. Yeah, you know.
00:35:02
What I mean and then you, you know I mean.
00:35:05
I think with that, like with that episode also because you're
00:35:08
pulling in so many different elements, you you're pulling in
00:35:11
the Eternals, you're pulling in Riwill Ironheart, you're pulling
00:35:14
in Spider Man. And was there something else in
00:35:18
there? Oh, you're.
00:35:19
Pulling a lot of things. Yeah, you got Shangshi and and
00:35:24
Doctor. So it it's so much there.
00:35:29
Because I don't mind them using those stories in those movies,
00:35:33
but use them in a meaningful way, like William Shine.
00:35:36
She hadn't stopped the thing from coming through the wall,
00:35:39
through the gate. What would that have looked
00:35:42
like? Yeah.
00:35:43
You know what I'm saying? So so I guess that's what I'm
00:35:46
saying. Like I, I wanted it to be more
00:35:48
relevant. Yeah.
00:35:51
To the to the stories that we already know.
00:35:55
And I guess it's kind of how it is in the comic books.
00:35:58
Yeah. And I guess also too, it's kind
00:36:00
of like with the way that again with the way the season 1 and
00:36:05
Season 2 happen, you have these different stories with these
00:36:08
certain characters and then at the end of the season, they all
00:36:11
came together for a particular conclusion to that season.
00:36:18
First off with with these two episodes, these last two
00:36:21
episodes of the whole series, they really had nothing to do
00:36:26
with anything that's happened this season.
00:36:29
Nothing except for Birdie being born Cohort was from last
00:36:33
season. We haven't seen Captain Carter
00:36:36
since last season Storm. This was her intro into the MCU.
00:36:43
What if Infinity Ultron last season.
00:36:46
So nothing that happened in this season had anything to do with
00:36:51
the these last two episodes. And I think that's part of the
00:36:55
issue I had with it, because there doesn't seem to be a sense
00:37:01
of completion for me. OK.
00:37:04
Oh, that's I remember my other point.
00:37:06
It was, it was almost like the writers, whoever the writers
00:37:10
were, were huge fans of Sliders because that's that's how
00:37:14
Sliders was. And if people don't remember
00:37:17
that what Sliders was, this group of people ended up sliding
00:37:23
trying to get back to the IT was almost like a budget quantity.
00:37:28
They weren't setting things right.
00:37:30
They were just trying to get home.
00:37:33
And so they were sliding through the multiverse and and they
00:37:36
would always either find a place that was completely different,
00:37:40
or they would find a place that was very similar but slightly
00:37:44
different. But their goal was to try to
00:37:47
find their way home sliding and they had the time limit and
00:37:50
whatnot. It felt like the people who
00:37:52
wrote this were fans of that show and baby fans of Quantum
00:37:56
Leap and was like, oh, let's do this instead of sticking to
00:38:00
what? Because I'll tell you the best
00:38:03
episodes of OK, Quantum Leap was like my favorite show of all
00:38:06
time. And some of the best Quantum
00:38:09
Leap episodes were not a part of the main arc of the main arc was
00:38:15
him getting back home. Those stand alone episodes were
00:38:19
the best. You know, those stand alone
00:38:22
episodes were really, really good.
00:38:25
Same thing with Sliders. Sliders had a lot of faults with
00:38:28
it. It was a it was a it was a very
00:38:30
entertaining show. But whenever they got into the
00:38:34
feed into the long art and this tried to tie all the multiverses
00:38:38
together, that's when it's sort of getting a little weird and
00:38:41
and strange. And that's sort of kind of like
00:38:44
the feeling I got with this. It's like if you had an episode,
00:38:48
what if Storm became the God of Thunder?
00:38:52
Then that becomes related to your big story arc.
00:38:56
You know, they didn't do that. You know, you had to go back to
00:38:59
the previous season to get Cohorty.
00:39:01
You had to go back to the previous season to get Captain
00:39:03
Carter. We got Birdie this season, but
00:39:06
she was. A baby so.
00:39:08
She was an infant. And who's the other person in
00:39:12
the group? That.
00:39:14
Was it that was it those four of them?
00:39:16
In Infinity. Ultron.
00:39:18
Yeah, but you, you didn't. And I, I don't want to say it's
00:39:22
because I didn't get an episode of Storm becoming the God of
00:39:25
Thunder. That would have been amazing.
00:39:28
And they probably changed my opinion of the season.
00:39:31
But you can't just throw it in at the end and not give us any
00:39:34
context. Right.
00:39:35
I was a little, I was a little peed about that too.
00:39:38
But my opinion, in my opinion, I think this is just this is a
00:39:42
grab bag season because it's the last season.
00:39:45
I think they had all the writers write their ideas of what they
00:39:48
wanted to happen and they put it in a hat and they just went,
00:39:52
let's see Avengers and mech form.
00:39:56
OK, we'll do that. Let's see Wild West Chongqi,
00:40:01
sure, we'll do that too. And then they just started
00:40:04
pulling stuff out of a hat because like you said.
00:40:06
Everybody little storm, Everybody little storm with me
00:40:09
on here. OK, let's throw it in.
00:40:11
Yeah, yeah. Everybody else tired of the
00:40:13
duck? Let's go.
00:40:14
Background just just put it put it in the last two episodes, but
00:40:16
because they've been waiting for it, just, you know, because
00:40:18
that's what Marvel loves to do is tease the tease X-Men any way
00:40:22
they can without giving us a proper payoff.
00:40:24
But and I just also, I think that while I like this season,
00:40:33
while there were there were some parts of it I kind of I was kind
00:40:37
of iffy on. But All in all, I just kind of
00:40:42
really try to, just like I've taught Anthony this season, take
00:40:47
just take every up as as an individual episode and not as
00:40:51
something that needs to blink, tear here and here.
00:40:54
It's like it's not him that. Huh.
00:40:57
Who said he did? You just said I did.
00:40:59
Since a thank you. Because it's like a perfect,
00:41:05
perfect example of that is the Agatha episode.
00:41:07
It's like I'm probably the only one of the three of us that
00:41:10
really actually like that episode because you because she
00:41:13
she doesn't like Agatha and anything was just like me
00:41:17
because it wasn't. It was a weird episode to be
00:41:19
sure it had its problems. Yes, it did.
00:41:22
It did have its problems, but I thoroughly enjoyed how they told
00:41:26
the story and that, but that's just me.
00:41:28
I'm weird. Let me say this they could have
00:41:31
given me a storm intro episode instead of that Agatha episode,
00:41:34
and that would have that would have changed my because it
00:41:37
because again and at the end, these last two episodes, Agatha
00:41:43
Kingo, none of those characters that were in that episode had
00:41:47
anything to do with these last two episodes.
00:41:50
But you throw in Storm, who let, OK, even though I know it's
00:41:54
rare, somebody watching this who may not be familiar with the
00:42:00
X-Men, who may not be familiar with Storm, they're probably
00:42:03
watching this like, who is she and why is she here?
00:42:06
You know what I'm saying? Like I said, I know it's rare
00:42:08
because even if you're not an avid comic book person, you
00:42:11
pretty much know who Storm is and.
00:42:13
If you watched the last two seasons of with you if you would
00:42:16
still be like. Right, right.
00:42:20
Like the only the the only people who will probably really,
00:42:22
really be like, Oh my God, Storm is in here are the people who
00:42:25
watch X-Men 97 and this because this is literally the same Storm
00:42:30
from the X-Men 97 animated series, because the voice
00:42:33
actress is the same one. Who was in Silly Smith?
00:42:36
Yeah. But yeah, they could have taken
00:42:39
out that Agatha, especially consider we just got a whole
00:42:43
series of Agatha. They really didn't have to bring
00:42:46
her into what if, especially if there was going to be no payoff
00:42:49
for the care. Do you think they did it like
00:42:52
because they meant to put put out what if before and then have
00:42:56
it lead into Agatha? Nah, Nah.
00:43:00
OK. That will say the same iron I
00:43:02
would like because they because they introduced Ironheart and
00:43:05
they're leading into Ironheart later this year.
00:43:08
I would easy I would more easily believe that the writers
00:43:11
changed. OK, that it was there she was
00:43:15
probably either Hurricane was probably going to be a part of
00:43:19
the of the team at the end and whoever was looking forward to
00:43:25
doing the long term plan axed it.
00:43:27
They not it's not going to work. You know what I mean?
00:43:30
Yeah. And then I I would I would
00:43:33
believe that more than I believe that they were trying to to lead
00:43:36
in because you have a you already know what your audience
00:43:40
is going to be. You don't have to advertise, oh,
00:43:43
we're going to have an episode of Agatha.
00:43:45
I hope that you pull in those handful of people that watch.
00:43:49
Right, because anybody who watched One Division, they would
00:43:52
have been, I mean, that's literally the audience that was
00:43:55
going to watch Agatha all along. Because like I said, people were
00:44:00
interested in in seeing what this character was about, what
00:44:03
her background was or whatever. It just, for me, the series just
00:44:07
didn't do what I thought it was going to do.
00:44:10
And to be realistic, the audience for What if is not the
00:44:14
same as the audience for Agatha. Online.
00:44:16
It's just not the same audience. This is be real.
00:44:19
It's not. And the people who are going to
00:44:21
watch what if are going to watch what if, regardless of Agatha
00:44:25
being the first episode or not, now they would have been
00:44:28
interested. They're like, oh, that's that's
00:44:29
interesting. And if you had tied it back and
00:44:32
put her in the last episode as part of the guardians of the the
00:44:35
multiverse, that would have been something to be, you know,
00:44:38
interesting in right Shan Shanxi, not necessarily.
00:44:44
You already have Captain Carter, who is woefully be honest with
00:44:48
you, under power to be on the causes of multiverse.
00:44:52
It's shame. She just punches things, you
00:44:54
know, which brings me back to I don't what is marvel?
00:44:57
What are they doing? Like the thunderbolts against
00:45:00
century? Why, like what is the point?
00:45:03
How are they going to stop century?
00:45:05
If you watch the last trailer, she's like, oh, all we do is
00:45:08
shoot bullets and punch things. How are we supposed to stop
00:45:11
this? Exactly?
00:45:13
Exactly. So which brings me back to the
00:45:16
point I'm trying to make about Captain Carter.
00:45:18
You can't have Shang Shi in last episode because you got Captain
00:45:23
Carter. You can't have two of them and
00:45:25
all they do is punch things and one throws a shield.
00:45:30
You see what I'm saying? Like the person, whoever did the
00:45:34
overall thing of this and whatever their plan was, I'm
00:45:37
sure they had to abandon you. That's probably why they brought
00:45:40
forward in, That's probably why they brought in storm, because
00:45:48
the people that you started with, it wasn't going to work.
00:45:52
You know, it wasn't going to work for them.
00:45:53
Like, well, this, what we're planning to do is not going to
00:45:56
work. And so we're going to have to go
00:45:58
back to the drawing board. So they rewrote it and that's
00:46:00
what it feels like because other than Birdie, none of the other
00:46:06
team members make any sense based on the season.
00:46:10
Yeah, they probably could have brought Kingo in, and that would
00:46:13
have made more sense because at least Kingo is, you know, an
00:46:17
eternal spawned by the Celestial, so he might actually
00:46:21
have the power. Yeah, and that would have been
00:46:24
and I would even be OK with Peggy because Peggy's
00:46:27
relationship would want to you. Know, yeah.
00:46:30
And in that sense, if they were going to bring anybody back from
00:46:33
last season, they should have brought Black Widow because he
00:46:36
helped her out as well, you know, and, and she, she was
00:46:41
aware of him, she was aware of what he did.
00:46:43
So I think that would have that would have made more sense to
00:46:47
me. So I, I don't know, it feels
00:46:50
like there was a lot of of things going on that they wanted
00:46:55
to do and it didn't make sense or they want to do other things,
00:47:00
but you know, it is what it is. Like, I'm sure they wanted to
00:47:04
have Rea Williams in the last episode, but because she owed
00:47:09
him for saving her life, right? And and that would have made
00:47:13
sense. So I don't know dope actually.
00:47:18
Because she would have basically have been like almost, I don't
00:47:21
want to say like, if any go Trump, but she would have been
00:47:23
pretty damn close, you know? Yeah, yeah.
00:47:28
And if you want to make an all girls team to do that, but
00:47:32
someone probably said, well, we got Storm, we can't have another
00:47:34
black girl on the team. That's not going to work.
00:47:36
Yep, to win too dark you. Know what?
00:47:39
That's probably what happened. But OK, so it's so talking about
00:47:42
that. This is the other thing that
00:47:43
kind of irritates me that's related to all of that.
00:47:46
You have this all, you know this this very powerful all girls
00:47:51
team who is tasked with saving the multiverse here, you know,
00:47:56
fighting against the three watchers.
00:47:59
Again, going back to what we just said, why leave Black Widow
00:48:03
out? She's she knew who want to us.
00:48:07
She and her own right is powerful.
00:48:09
Yes, she is a human character doesn't have any magic, but
00:48:13
that's one of the things that I feel like has always made that a
00:48:16
Black Widow kind of valuable as well.
00:48:18
But again, you have someone who was so important in in the first
00:48:25
two seasons, you had Black Widow and several of those episodes,
00:48:30
but then kind of like they did in the main MCU, you kill her
00:48:33
character off and she's not involved in the end game battle
00:48:38
at all. Similar to this.
00:48:40
She's so important in the first two seasons.
00:48:42
And then in the last season when Peggy Carter, who by all rights
00:48:46
in the first two seasons was one of her best friends, she's
00:48:50
nowhere to be found. I have a problem with that.
00:48:52
Yeah, like why would Piggy not draft her to be to be on the?
00:48:57
Garden Rd. And how would be how would she
00:48:59
be so, so close to the Storm character that we've never seen
00:49:03
before in this iteration? Now, I'm not I'm not knocking
00:49:07
that friendship or that sisterhood, because we know that
00:49:11
Storm has those close ties she did with Jean Grey in X-Men 97.
00:49:17
But here it just because you just threw this character in at
00:49:21
the very last minute. It just really didn't make any
00:49:25
sense. I again, I'm not complaining
00:49:28
about the fact that Storm is here.
00:49:29
I love the fact that she was here.
00:49:31
The fact that she came in with Mona and they were like, oh, I
00:49:34
didn't know Thor was here. That we was like, no, that's not
00:49:37
Thor. But again, you give us no
00:49:42
introduction to this character in this particular universe.
00:49:46
You don't give us any background.
00:49:47
You don't tell us how she came to be part of Peggy's group.
00:49:53
Again, you could have taken out the Agatha episode, You could
00:49:57
have put in a storm episode introducing her.
00:49:59
I would have been way. It's all about contacts and
00:50:04
connections. It's like you can't, you can't
00:50:06
have, you can't do both and be good at both.
00:50:11
You had to do one or the other. Either you wanted the stories to
00:50:14
be cohesive and connected to lead to a cultivating moment, or
00:50:21
you wanted to have these stand alone episodes.
00:50:24
The problem is if you do both, you're going to kind of get some
00:50:29
mixed messages, giving mixed messages to your audience.
00:50:32
So that's how you end up with storm.
00:50:34
Well, you didn't have the storm episode, but you give us a
00:50:37
storm, right? Yeah, Also, go ahead.
00:50:42
I'm sorry. OK.
00:50:42
Also also, right when Peggy was getting ready to leave and try
00:50:46
to recruit Ultron, she looked at a picture of all the Guardians
00:50:49
of the Galaxy and everybody was in it.
00:50:51
Like Bertie was in Accord, he was in it.
00:50:54
Also, Thor was in it, Gomorrah was in it, Charlotte Starboard
00:50:57
was in, and Black Widow was in that picture.
00:51:00
So there is a link where they could have called any one of
00:51:03
them to come and help them. So it's like they knew, they
00:51:06
knew each other. They knew each other very well
00:51:08
because the picture is a fun picture where they're just,
00:51:10
they're posing all wild and shit.
00:51:12
So it's like she could have gone and got him anybody she wanted
00:51:16
to. Yeah.
00:51:18
So I don't know, but I think overall, I will say for the
00:51:25
three seasons, I enjoyed most of it more than I didn't enjoy it.
00:51:30
I just think this last season was just kind of all over the
00:51:34
place. And although there were episodes
00:51:36
that I really did like in this third season, I just don't feel
00:51:41
like the ending, the finale that we got matched three seasons
00:51:48
worth of, of what we had been getting.
00:51:50
It just, I, I don't know, it just feels incomplete to me.
00:51:54
Oh I'm sorry, I just thought of the Red Guardian in Winter
00:51:57
Soldier episode. What was the point of that?
00:52:00
Like what? Did they do I want to, I
00:52:03
probably want to say that is that was more likely kind of
00:52:08
what we just said a few minutes ago.
00:52:10
That's kind of giving us a little bit of an introduction to
00:52:13
those two characters together before the Thunder.
00:52:16
Before the Thunder that's. What I think?
00:52:18
Y'all were trying to do too much.
00:52:20
Y'all were trying to do too much.
00:52:22
Trying. To do too much.
00:52:24
But again, it's it's a typical what if episode.
00:52:25
It's like, what if the Red Guardian stopped Winter Soldier
00:52:28
from killing Howard Stark? Yeah.
00:52:30
And see that's. A What if episode.
00:52:33
Bother me as much, especially considering we have seen Bucky
00:52:39
in one of the, you know, in other what if episodes so it's
00:52:43
not like they just randomly threw him in there and it was
00:52:47
kind of like what? If it is obviously an intro to
00:52:52
the characters being together for Thunderbolts, especially
00:52:55
with the car chase scene on the Route 66, yeah, we're going to
00:52:59
see it in the movie. In the movie, yeah, but I've
00:53:03
noticed. OK, so I when you think about
00:53:07
that stuff, OK, we're going to talk about Captain America,
00:53:10
Brave New World later on. But there was a certain thing
00:53:16
that happened in that movie that I was like, why didn't we get
00:53:19
kind of a hint about that? And what if last season I was
00:53:25
like, oh, OK, we'll talk about it later on because I don't want
00:53:27
to spoil anybody who didn't come here expecting Captain America
00:53:31
spoilers. But there's a certain there's a
00:53:33
certain scene, a certain cameo that happens in the movie.
00:53:37
And it's like, what? And then I thought I said, oh,
00:53:41
wait, they did this and what if last season?
00:53:44
So, but yeah. They did.
00:53:46
They really did. And.
00:53:49
We'll talk about later, but that was a freaking reshoot.
00:53:52
It just threw that shit in there and we're going to talk about
00:53:55
that later. But yeah, so I don't think that
00:54:00
one that episode didn't bother me as much.
00:54:03
Also because you guys know how I feel about Bucky, so I don't
00:54:07
mind seeing a Bucky episode. And I guess that's kind of
00:54:10
biased because like Mike said, I'm really not an Agatha fan.
00:54:13
So I really could have done without that Agatha episode.
00:54:16
It wouldn't have bothered me. Although I do like Kingo, but
00:54:20
again, I just feel like a that a missed opportunity for Storm
00:54:24
episode was in there like they. Just it was, it was definitely
00:54:29
in there. And when you step back, I mean,
00:54:31
I know I said the same thing. I liked that episode.
00:54:34
Red Guardian Bike. It was it was fun.
00:54:37
But when you step back, it doesn't really fit in the motif
00:54:41
of the season. Just like the Agatha episode.
00:54:45
It it it really and or the Shang Shi episode?
00:54:48
Yeah. You, you can't do, oh, if you
00:54:50
got to do one or the other, Yeah, you know.
00:54:53
Especially. They did.
00:54:54
They did. You, you actually follow a, a, a
00:54:58
formula and to, to get to a, a specific conclusion for the, for
00:55:03
the season. So yeah, yeah, but I don't know,
00:55:08
I guess at, at, at this point it's over.
00:55:12
I'm kind of glad it's over now. Like I, I really did love this
00:55:16
show the first two seasons, but like I said, this third season
00:55:19
just felt a little disjointed and unfortunately we've been
00:55:26
feeling a a a lot about the MCU, especially in the last phase.
00:55:32
It's just kind of like hit or miss and I don't know what's
00:55:35
going on. I don't, I don't know what what
00:55:38
they're doing, but it just I don't know.
00:55:42
They really kind of they missed an opportunity for this show to
00:55:46
go out on a very high note. You know, my personal opinion,
00:55:50
it just didn't it, it just kind of fell flat for me.
00:55:53
Like, I, I liked learning more about Oahu.
00:55:56
I liked learning about his history with the Watchers, how
00:55:59
he became a watcher. I like seeing his change of
00:56:04
heart over the last three seasons, how he went from this
00:56:08
cold, unfeeling, oh, I'm just observing, you know, type of
00:56:13
person to a person who actually through because of his
00:56:19
connection to humanity. I like seeing that.
00:56:21
I like seeing, you know, character growth and character
00:56:24
change like that. But I don't know, it just.
00:56:31
Yeah, I just didn't. It didn't do for me what I was
00:56:34
expecting a final season to do. So.
00:56:38
Yeah. I agree.
00:56:41
I liked it. I I, I was thoroughly
00:56:43
entertained by all three seasons.
00:56:45
I I mean, there were, there were sure, there were, there were
00:56:48
some moments where you kind of like, and that's questionable.
00:56:52
But again, like I said when we first started covering what if,
00:56:56
this is probably one of my favorite comic series of all
00:56:59
time because it really sparks my imagination where you kind of
00:57:03
make up your own what if scenarios when you read them,
00:57:06
like it's like you can like think of, Oh, well, what if?
00:57:09
What if instead of Wolverine having adamantium clause, psych
00:57:12
OPS adamantium clause, or what if, what if Nightcrawler had
00:57:17
Charles Xavier's telepathic ability?
00:57:19
Like, you know, it's like you kind of you kind of throw
00:57:22
yourself into making up those kind of scenarios.
00:57:24
And that's why I really, really loved this series as a kid and
00:57:29
even as a teen, even as a really young acting young ass acting
00:57:34
adult Gen. Xer, I still love those love
00:57:38
those series. And it was and again, we're in
00:57:42
it's like, it's like our friend Laurie says we're in one of the
00:57:44
best, one of the best times to be a geek because there's so
00:57:48
much nerd shit out that just that people are getting greenlit
00:57:52
to actually put out like I wouldn't know.
00:57:55
You thought in a million years I would see what if comics being
00:57:57
made into cartoons or even new ones being created and turned
00:58:00
into what ifs. It's like this is really cool
00:58:03
for me and my teenage self when I first found what if comics to
00:58:07
actually be able to see it on a screen and be able to talk, talk
00:58:13
with other fellow nerds about it and then be happy that I have
00:58:17
these things. So I am ecstatic.
00:58:19
I love this whole series and I'm I'm sad to see it go, but I feel
00:58:26
like this season kind of showed that they were getting weary and
00:58:30
tired and just kind of throwing stuff out there.
00:58:33
And, and if they did another season, it would have just not
00:58:36
have had the same energy as it had when it first started.
00:58:40
Like it's already starting to get tired and I don't want to
00:58:42
see it. I want to see something I love
00:58:44
just being really being relegated and just kind of half
00:58:49
assed, you know, I'm saying. So I'm kind of glad they're not
00:58:51
doing another one. I wouldn't mind seeing a movie
00:58:55
about it, but yeah. But I'm I still thoroughly
00:58:59
enjoyed most of these. I I completely feel where you're
00:59:06
coming from. I do What If is also one of my
00:59:10
favorite series and it has its roots and the choose your only
00:59:15
adventure books for me. Yes, absolutely.
00:59:18
You, you always think about the different possibilities of
00:59:22
things that happen. And, and I'm going to, I'm going
00:59:28
to talk my, our friend, friend of the show, Nick and I always
00:59:34
get into these arguments. I'm sorry, these heated
00:59:37
discussions, discussions about, about just being happy that
00:59:44
something is being made. You know, just be happy there's
00:59:48
another Star Wars TV show. Just be happy that there's
00:59:51
another Star Trek movie. Just be happy there's another
00:59:54
MCU. It's not know where you're
00:59:56
going. It's not enough for me.
00:59:58
I, I, it, it is not enough. I need more quality, need need
01:00:05
consistency. Just just because I'm a fan of
01:00:08
your show, just because I love your property, just because the
01:00:11
initial property is my fandom, doesn't mean I have to eat it.
01:00:17
I'm I'm trying not to curse I. You don't have to.
01:00:21
What is that? What is that told Nick?
01:00:23
Don't pee on me and call it rain.
01:00:26
Don't do that to me. I want I, I like OK.
01:00:32
I'm I'm, I'm as big a fan of popcorn flicks as anyone.
01:00:38
I like going to the movies and seeing, you know, if I go to the
01:00:42
movies and I, I see something and I can enjoy it.
01:00:47
The John Wick movies are like that.
01:00:49
You don't expect them to be, you know, these great masterpieces
01:00:53
of work. They're fun and entertaining.
01:00:56
That's how. That's how fast and Furious is
01:00:57
for me. Fast and Furious, as much as I
01:01:01
dog those movies, I still go and watch them.
01:01:06
I still laugh and it it is a fun time and it's fun to make fun of
01:01:10
those movies, but I can't. For some reason, I have a hard
01:01:15
time doing that because the expectation level that Marvel
01:01:19
has created and the quality of the stuff that we're doing
01:01:24
versus what's happening now. Like you started out at the
01:01:28
popcorn flick level with the first Iron Man, you know, or
01:01:32
Blade. Because Michelle and I recently
01:01:34
watched Blade again and Blade is a fun movie, right?
01:01:38
It's not, it's not a great film. It's got a lot of problems, but
01:01:42
it's a fun movie. Expectation level's low, but
01:01:45
then when you get into The Avengers, if you start getting
01:01:49
into end game and and movies, that kind of matter.
01:01:54
That's why a man Quantum mania was such a let down.
01:01:57
MCU. They keep heaven Feige.
01:02:00
I'm going to blame him for it. They keep putting out these
01:02:04
these properties and these things that just aren't quality.
01:02:09
Like I can't even enjoy watching secret invasion.
01:02:12
It's terrible. You know, Eternals, this is an
01:02:15
artsy film. I can enjoy it from an artsy
01:02:18
perspective, but I can see why a lot of people didn't like it.
01:02:22
It was for them. It was like it wasn't an MCU
01:02:25
movie. It was just this, this thing
01:02:28
that that happens in the MCU. So same thing with with Black
01:02:32
Widow movie. I guess it was supposed to be
01:02:35
fun, but the Taskmaster was a disaster.
01:02:39
Please. Don't get Mike started.
01:02:42
Please don't get Mike started. Stop.
01:02:44
I'm not. And the movie hasn't even come
01:02:46
out yet. I'm.
01:02:47
Not even I'm going to end. I'm just going to say that I
01:02:52
understand where Mike is coming from.
01:02:54
I would like to sit here and say that you can watch with if just
01:02:57
for the entertainment value, but it's hard because some of the
01:03:00
stuff just doesn't really make any sense.
01:03:03
It's hard to be entertained by something.
01:03:05
They just kind of like what? Just leave your hands
01:03:08
scratching. Like why is Storm here?
01:03:12
Just why? Why you might as well could you
01:03:16
could have made-up a whole team of of people we had never seen
01:03:18
before because it doesn't it doesn't really work for me.
01:03:24
And we'll talk more about this on our episode about Captain of
01:03:31
America and The Winter Soldier part do because you know when we
01:03:37
talked about. Incredible Hulk Part 2 We'll
01:03:40
we'll, we'll. We'll, we'll, we'll come back to
01:03:43
that and we'll stick a pin in it.
01:03:45
But the same thing that I'm talking about now applies to
01:03:48
that, that thing that we're going to talk about where this
01:03:52
don't give me a movie and be like, here you go.
01:03:55
Enjoy. Yeah, it doesn't work like that.
01:03:58
I would story time. A long time ago, I used to take
01:04:02
Bailey to Brewster's. I don't want to call it a date,
01:04:07
but you know, I would just take her so we can hang out.
01:04:10
We get Brewster's ice cream. And you know, this time,
01:04:13
Valentine's Day, I said, you know what, it's been years since
01:04:16
I took her to get Brewster's ice cream.
01:04:19
And I remember Bruce's ice cream being so good that Brewster's
01:04:23
ice cream and now in my old age, is overpriced.
01:04:30
And I'm eating ice cream and it's freezer burn and I'm
01:04:34
sitting like, do I really remember what it was like being
01:04:38
with her and hanging out with her or has ice cream in the ice
01:04:41
cream has always been like this, but I just didn't care.
01:04:45
Don't give me freezer burned ice cream.
01:04:48
I really want some quality ice cream.
01:04:51
Even if I didn't get it before. You fooled me and made me think
01:04:54
that's what I was getting. Just give me that.
01:04:56
That's what I want. Does that make sense?
01:04:59
Yes. Yes, I know, I know.
01:05:01
I kind of went off the rails. I'm I'm.
01:05:02
I'm getting off the soapbox now, no.
01:05:04
I mean, and no, no, I mean related to that, I think that a
01:05:08
lot of it is nostalgia based, just like a lot of things where
01:05:12
it's like you see something and you're like, oh man, I remember
01:05:15
that. And you kind of give it a pass
01:05:17
because it's something that evokes a evokes a feeling and
01:05:21
evokes a memory for you. So you're like, OK, it wasn't
01:05:25
the best written, it wasn't the best acted.
01:05:27
The the effects were kind of fucked up, but that's what it
01:05:31
is. But but I actually got to see it
01:05:33
again, so it's fine, whatever. And that's that's basically what
01:05:37
it is. It's like you see things and
01:05:38
you're like, OK, well, you kind of let things slide just so you
01:05:42
could get that feeling again. It's like, it's like one of the
01:05:45
most addictive drugs is nostalgia.
01:05:47
Nostalgia is one of the most addictive drugs there is because
01:05:51
you get to see things where you were happier and it gives you
01:05:54
that feeling again. And you're like, oh man, I
01:05:57
remember that. But then when it's gone, you're
01:05:59
like, shit, how can I feel that way again?
01:06:02
And you keep going back forward and back forward and back
01:06:05
forward. It's just like, you know, it, it
01:06:07
really effects you like that. We're we're all chasing the MCU
01:06:11
high. Yeah, chasing the MCU dragon.
01:06:14
Chasing the nostalgia dragon. Yeah, yeah.
01:06:17
So, OK, Well, I think we have talked this episode to this at
01:06:22
this point. Oh, Oh my God.
01:06:24
I got something to say. What you got to say, Mike.
01:06:27
OK. So first of all, shout out to
01:06:29
Allison Silly Smith for getting another thing in the MCU.
01:06:32
I'm so glad that she's finally getting her due.
01:06:34
That was awesome. Her, DeVry Jacobs and Natasha
01:06:37
Lyonne were really good in this episode.
01:06:40
I appreciated their efforts. Shout out to Darcy for inventing
01:06:44
Trans Universal Communication so she could keep track of Birdie
01:06:47
and ask her for the Donuts that make her lose weight.
01:06:50
I need to find out exactly what universe that's in so I can
01:06:52
handle that too. Shout out to Birdie being a
01:06:57
mechanical genius just like her mom and the levels of energy
01:07:01
that she created to see when that pod could get to the other
01:07:04
dimension. It started with Crapola, it went
01:07:08
to loser build the lame city, then now we're talking, then rad
01:07:13
sauce, then straight fire and it ended in money with look what
01:07:17
looked like Scrooge Mcduck in my but I'm thinking it's probably
01:07:20
her. It was probably Howard at the
01:07:21
end, but it looked like it looked just like Scrooge Mcduck
01:07:24
and it had like the dollar signs.
01:07:25
I'm like, that had to be Scrooge.
01:07:26
Mcduck, Yeah. Scrooge Mcduck?
01:07:27
Yeah. I thought I'm like, and there's
01:07:30
and there's your, there's your Disney MCU crossover.
01:07:32
Ladies and gentlemen, shout to that Marvel fools table being so
01:07:37
fucking rad. Like, I want one of those so
01:07:39
badly. I can't play foosball for shit,
01:07:41
but I'm like, yeah, I gotta have that.
01:07:42
I don't even like foosball. It's like I gotta have it.
01:07:45
Exactly. I'm like that shit, dope as
01:07:46
fuck, like I gotta have it South to Heavy metal Storm hitting the
01:07:50
Shard with her hammer and the fucking shredding and like the
01:07:54
wind blowing and her almost getting there like that.
01:07:57
That really that that affected the rock'n'roll part of me.
01:08:01
I was like, this is a dope ass scene.
01:08:02
Oh, honorable mention what she says.
01:08:05
I used to control nature. Now I am.
01:08:08
I am nature. Yeah, yeah.
01:08:11
Shout out to the three watchers when they combine together to
01:08:14
clear out everybody's everybody's multiverse at the
01:08:18
end, like when they were spinning, they look like they
01:08:21
had three heads and remind me of the living tribunal, which is
01:08:24
like a is a overpowered, overpowered being in a Marvel
01:08:27
Universe that is like overall and is like judging.
01:08:31
I'm like, I'm wondering if they're trying to say that they
01:08:33
have the power to become the living tribunal.
01:08:34
But it looked just like them, just like a being with three
01:08:37
faces, and it looked really cool that that animation with them,
01:08:41
like losing the the multiple versions of them, like being
01:08:46
blown off of them was really fucking cool.
01:08:50
Also, at the end, I was just what that's what I was doing
01:08:53
while you were together talking. I wrote down all of the at the
01:08:57
in the end scroll. There were like versions of
01:09:00
superheroes that were flashing by.
01:09:02
I wrote down as many as I could. First we saw the 8 arm spider
01:09:06
man, which is actually in a comic.
01:09:08
There's a version of that in spider man lore, this ghost
01:09:11
rider samurai, which looked dope as fuck.
01:09:14
I'm totally down for that shit. There was re re as the punisher.
01:09:18
That was just redamdiculous Like holy shit, there was Gamora as a
01:09:24
bride. I'm like, are they did they say
01:09:27
Gamora and kill Bill, but or are they making Gamora marry
01:09:30
somebody like the Gamora marry Peter Peter Quill.
01:09:34
That's kind of weird. But she was dressed up as a
01:09:35
bride. So I'm like, OK, Then there was
01:09:37
Vision dressed up as a knight. I'm actually down for that too.
01:09:41
Like shit. After that there was Thanos as
01:09:45
Weapon X, like with the adamanium claws and the helmet
01:09:49
with Logan first got the adamanium infusion.
01:09:52
I was like, I don't want to see that.
01:09:54
Like we don't need that, no. But after that there was Kingo
01:09:58
as Iron Man, which was really intriguing.
01:10:01
I was like, I looked, I was like, is that Kingo?
01:10:04
But he had an Iron Man suit on and I'm like, So what if the
01:10:08
what if the Eternals took that literally took the place of The
01:10:10
Avengers, like Kingo is Iron Man that you could have one of them
01:10:14
be, have other guys be Thor and etcetera, etcetera.
01:10:18
So I'm like, that actually is kind of intriguing because they
01:10:21
remember in the movie they said they didn't, they didn't
01:10:23
interfere. They're like, well, we could
01:10:25
call The Avengers and they're like, they laughed at it.
01:10:28
So maybe this time they actually would like, well, let's just
01:10:31
take their place and save the world.
01:10:33
So what if what if Kingo just just bought Stark Industries?
01:10:39
Oh, what if he saved Stark in the Middle East?
01:10:43
He. Already has a relationship with
01:10:44
Howard Stark. Yeah.
01:10:47
Also there was the Wasp with Miss Marvel powers.
01:10:49
Like with the with the power. I was like, huh.
01:10:53
Then there was Maestro with Sorcerer's Supreme powers.
01:10:56
That shit's scary. I don't know if I want to see
01:10:59
that. My Maestro.
01:11:01
With Maestro. My show's a smart is he's a
01:11:03
older. Version of he's he's a future
01:11:05
version of the whole Doctor Bruce died.
01:11:08
OK, OK. Yeah, I don't know.
01:11:10
I want that. Then there was my one of my
01:11:12
personal favorites. Howard Duck is a vampire.
01:11:14
Yes, I love that one. Yeah.
01:11:16
I think I actually saw that as a comic.
01:11:18
I'm not sure. I can't remember I had.
01:11:20
Heard a rumor that we will see some of those versions then
01:11:25
there was a reason that they showed those versions of those
01:11:29
characters. What?
01:11:30
Making Secret wars. Maybe, Yeah, yeah.
01:11:34
Then there's Jubilee as Jubilee in some she looks like Storm.
01:11:39
She has like light for eyes, like maybe it's an elevated
01:11:42
Jubilee. Then there's another is Cap as a
01:11:45
zombie again, like when you see that.
01:11:47
Wait, you skipped one the. Yeah, I did.
01:11:50
I came. With the duck, it was somebody,
01:11:52
some some kind of creature with a bow and arrow.
01:11:58
It kind of look the kind of looks like Beta Ray Bill.
01:12:03
I wouldn't know. I don't freeze frame anymore so.
01:12:05
You know what? Yeah, but but shout to them for
01:12:11
for some reason, I think this is them keeping the door open for
01:12:14
maybe changing their mind about doing it.
01:12:17
I mean, they are they are kind of apartment to doing that
01:12:20
sometimes. Like who's the?
01:12:21
Pirate the pirate and the the chick was that was that that's
01:12:26
what. I was trying to figure out
01:12:27
because in look. Does it look like Medusa?
01:12:32
But are they? Are they?
01:12:33
Dancing. The ones that are dancing at the
01:12:36
end. Yeah, they like pirates.
01:12:39
And no, not pirates. One of them looks like he's in a
01:12:42
tuxedo and the the female almost looks like Cersei from the
01:12:47
Eternals. Yeah, it was weird.
01:12:50
So maybe it's Cersei? And what's his name?
01:12:52
It is not Icarus it. Could be a Black Knight.
01:12:58
You know what it could be because he he is dark haired,
01:13:03
but it looks like, I don't know, it looks like a version of
01:13:07
Howard Stark. When when they brought up the
01:13:11
idea of the multiverse way back when, because we've had this
01:13:14
conversation and we talked about this back when they first
01:13:18
started. And I was like, this is
01:13:19
literally their opportunity to do whatever they want to do.
01:13:24
You know, they can bring Black Panther back.
01:13:26
They want to, they have ways, they have reasons.
01:13:30
They, they, they have the opportunity.
01:13:32
And I. Saw they were looking at all.
01:13:34
Yeah, go ahead. Well, I was going to say I'm,
01:13:37
I'm not going to fault them for leaning into it because they
01:13:40
have invested so much into it. I know a lot of people are kind
01:13:44
of tired of this multiverse thing, but the, the MCU Marvel,
01:13:49
Disney, they, they have leaned into it like they are all in on
01:13:55
the multiverse thing and they're going to make it work whether we
01:13:58
want them to or not. But I warned everyone way back
01:14:02
when that this was going to be a problem that they introduced
01:14:07
this and it it was going to be an issue and it's starting to be
01:14:11
an issue now. They're going to have to figure
01:14:13
out a way to rein this in, you know, and, and I don't want to
01:14:19
say I hate them for it, but they, they had, if I could see
01:14:24
it coming, people smarter than me who worked there should have
01:14:27
seen this coming. That people are going to get
01:14:29
tired of it, that it was going to be confusion and it was, it's
01:14:33
going to be weird. And people are going to be like,
01:14:35
what are they doing? And characters can come back and
01:14:39
characters can die. It is, it's, it's a lot.
01:14:43
And then, and then when you extend it to all your other
01:14:46
properties and, and the ramifications of what if on this
01:14:52
whole idea of a multiverse, it is, is it's a lot.
01:14:57
Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. It is.
01:14:58
It's just, it's just, I mean, yeah, I think we were talking
01:15:02
about it. I said that if they do this and
01:15:05
they do it wrong, it's going to be a fucking disaster.
01:15:08
And are we even? I know we're going to talk about
01:15:10
this later, but is is this Captain America movie even in
01:15:14
the right universe? We'll talk.
01:15:16
We'll talk about that later because.
01:15:17
There's normal is not America, so is not what is not what you
01:15:22
call it. We'll, we'll talk about it and
01:15:25
we'll talk about it in, in, in detail, because there's a lot,
01:15:31
there's a lot to unpack with that particular movie.
01:15:34
So yeah. But my point is they, they've, I
01:15:38
think they have bitten off a whole lot more than they can
01:15:41
treat. Yeah.
01:15:42
And this and, and hopefully they use Secret Wars as a way to and
01:15:47
I think hopefully that's what they're going to do as we just
01:15:51
reset and get rid of multiverse, yeah, and kind of start over.
01:15:57
And they also they also have mega Deadpool in here.
01:15:59
I do think that it seems like it almost looks like Howard Stark
01:16:02
dancing with Cersei. OK, that's yeah, that's what it
01:16:05
looks like. Then there's like Hera as a
01:16:09
child looks like, and then it's like Quill with the five rings
01:16:14
or something. And then it then it gets bright
01:16:18
and you can't really tell. But it seems like, it does seem
01:16:20
seem to me like they're kind of leaving the door open to maybe
01:16:23
revisiting some of this later. I'm just glad you, I'm just glad
01:16:27
you didn't do that when they were when the Eminence was
01:16:31
trying to get rid of all of the verses of Captain Carter and
01:16:36
Cohorty, right. Glad you didn't sit there and
01:16:38
try to freeze frame those guys. You got a lot of.
01:16:41
Them ain't nobody got time for that like that was a lot I mean
01:16:45
I I saw I saw like primitive versions I saw like medieval
01:16:49
versions or something it. Was it was this armor,
01:16:51
incredible looking version of Captain Carter that just looked
01:16:54
like she's probably going to blow shit up.
01:16:57
She's she was huge and had all this armor on.
01:17:01
Yeah. Yeah, it.
01:17:02
Was crazy. She looked scary.
01:17:03
Yeah, shout to Birdie having among her powers of light up
01:17:08
wings and the jewel on her head shooting laser beams.
01:17:11
She also has duck wrist, which is a very low key and rare power
01:17:15
that she uses to play foosball and beat cohorty.
01:17:21
But yeah, I thought this was awesome, not just because of my
01:17:24
favorite niece, Birdie the Duck, but I mean, I actually really
01:17:28
enjoyed all of this. And if they decide to do it, I
01:17:33
hope they do a more cohesive job with it.
01:17:35
And maybe they're just giving it a rest for a minute.
01:17:37
This is fine. Which is absolutely fine where
01:17:40
they can do something and be and not have fatigue, where they
01:17:45
have to keep forcing episodes out and maybe they'll maybe
01:17:49
they'll visit, maybe they won't. But I enjoyed the ride for what
01:17:51
it was. Well.
01:17:53
Unless that is it for our show. You can find us online at
01:17:57
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01:18:01
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01:18:11
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01:18:13
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