#marvel #whatif #MCU Agatha Harkness desires to possess the power of the Celestial Tiamet, frozen in the Earth after a failed Emergence. Her search for the power to complete a perfect spell takes her to Hollywood. But when she comes face-to-face with an Eternal, will her thirst for power be enough to conquer all, or will she see the error of her ways?
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What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode
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of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here
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with Anthony and Mike and we are discussing season 3, episode 2
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of Marvel's What If series. And this is the episode What If
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Agatha went to Hollywood. And as you can guess by my
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screen name was not really not really feeling Agatha in this in
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this episode, but we will get to that.
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But since Anthony was not on our discussion for the first
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episode, I want to kind of backtrack really quickly and get
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Anthony's thoughts about Episode 1.
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What did you think about the third season premiere?
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OK so first this is not going to be long.
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I'm not going to belabor the point.
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I was somewhat disappointed in the 1st episode.
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I don't know it it was weird watching like a mash up of
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Voltron, Pacific Rim and Godzilla.
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And I was like, well, why do we have we're already being
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derivative. But then you cubed it like
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derivative to the third power and I didn't I didn't care for
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it. Not at all.
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Not one bit, not one bit, not one bit.
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So you know, I was Needless to say, I was disappointed.
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I was hoping for a better kick off to the season, but as as it
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always has been, I guess with this show, not every episode is
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going to be great. There's going to be a hit and a
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miss and then there's a build up ultimately.
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So, you know, we'll we'll see where it goes.
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You know, I I didn't care for the end of it, didn't care for
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the beginning, didn't care for the middle.
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Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is.
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I was, I was not happy. I was just whatever.
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It's so funny because your reaction is the complete
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opposite of Mike and I's reaction because we loved it
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because of all the 80s references.
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No reference is fine. 2 references OK to match the three
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things with The Avengers and he just it was too much.
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It was. Like a love letter to the 80s.
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No, no, it's called, oh, we're lazy.
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So hey, wouldn't it be cool if we take Voltron, Godzilla and
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Pacific Rim and make it like The Avengers versus the Hulk, and
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then the Hulk can find himself? It's like Kaiju.
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No, no, too much. You know what I'm I'm going into
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this new year as a changed man. I'm going one.
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I'm going into the new year as a changed man where I'm going to
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try to hold my face every time Anthony says something that I
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really don't agree with and not smirk or do anything like really
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off because Anthony is one of my best friends.
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He is a very smart individual. I respect everything that he
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said that he has to say about multiple nerddoms and fandoms,
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including Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, and anything that he has
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watched. I respect his opinion.
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So I'm just going to keep my face, and if I have to make a
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face, I'm just going to turn my camera off like so I can't
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believe, OK, I'm good. So that that's all I have to say
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about that. So we don't need to go into it.
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I'm just, yeah, we can move. We can move forward.
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Alright, let's move forward. Let's let's, let's switch gears
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'cause now I'm about to be the one.
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That's like what? Because this episode of What if,
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what if Agatha went to Hollywood?
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So I was trying to keep an open mind because it's Agatha.
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And I think if you listen to our episodes that we did where we
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discussed Agatha all along, you will know that she is not one of
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my favorite characters in the MCUI.
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Just, I don't know, something about the way she's portrayed is
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just very off for me. And when I was watching this
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episode, Mike messaged me and he was like, So what did you think
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about the episode? And I said, you know, I've come
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to the conclusion that I just don't think I care for Katherine
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Hahn as an actress and even less so as a voice actress because
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her her performance in this it just, I don't know, it's just
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like the voice in the IT it something about her voice just
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does not resonate with me. And it really kind of kept me
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from enjoying the episode. It's almost like, and this is
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not to say that she's a bad actress or something, there's
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just, you know, some people, just there's some people that
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just don't, I don't know her. Her voice is like chalk
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scratching down a chalkboard for me.
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And it just kind of took away from my enjoyment for the for
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most of the episode. I think the best part of the
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episode for me was Kingo, but that's because I also loved him
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in the Eternals and I love the fact that they brought the
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Eternals into this. But again, kind of like what
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Mike and I discussed in the last episode.
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Why would you bring us the Eternals and put them so heavily
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into this into this storyline when you're not giving us any
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more Eternals material? It's just kind of like you're
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teasing us and it with no pay off.
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So I, I don't know, I, I, I don't know.
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What do you guys think? Let's, I don't want to be, I
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don't want to be the, the, you know, downer Debbie.
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But let's go Anthony first 'cause I already know Mike loves
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the episode. So let's go to Anthony first.
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Anthony might split the middle. So I I let me start by saying
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the good things. I thought the animation in the
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episode was pretty good, except the dancing.
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It was a little weird, but I don't I don't know if that if
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that dance sequence was meant to look that way.
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I thought her dress, the glittering, the glittering dress
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was absolutely gorgeous. That was well animated.
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It looked really good. It set her apart from everything
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else, which is kind of how her personality is now.
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My dislikes in general is just about this whole process.
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I like the Eternals. I actually kind of like the
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movie. Side note, I hadn't heard a
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rumor that we were going to see the Eternals again at some
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point. I don't know how true that's
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going to be, but the back to this episode, I don't know why
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they're trying to force, force Agatha on us.
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I I, I don't see the benefit of Agatha Harkness.
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I I really don't. And I'm like you, Hanukkah, Why
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are you giving us the eternals here when you're probably not
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going to give us the eternals again in any form or fashion?
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And then you kind of throw Tony Stark in here in his weird role,
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and then Jarvis in the. What you mean Howard Stark,
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Harold, how we start. Yeah, how we're starting.
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And then you have them in these weird positions.
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I don't know. The whole episode was a little
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strange. And then Agatha is not a nice
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person, so the ending kind of doesn't really jibe with her.
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I fully expect to her to be like, oh, that's a cool thought,
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but no, it destroys. That's what I would.
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Do too. Yeah.
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And I thought actually, I would have liked to show this episode
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better had she done that, if she had this like, yeah, that sounds
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really good. But no.
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And then she proceeded to make it more about her, you know, and
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do what most of them do. I thought that would have been
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perfect for this episode. But no, they they didn't go that
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way. So I don't know why they keep
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why they're trying to make Agatha Harkness something that
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we we want. I don't, I don't know if the
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general audience wants any. I think she has a, a, a she has
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a following. That's obvious.
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I don't know if, if the following is large enough to
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warrant this. I don't know.
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I, it was, it was weird. I, I don't know.
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And you know, of course Kingo was great because I love him.
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He's funny. He sort of brought the show up a
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little bit, but not enough to overcome all the problems I had
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with it. That's it.
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I think I I agree with you on the ending of the episode.
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And it's so strange because I remember when we were talking
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about Agatha and I was trying to figure out what her character
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was or who she was, and I was the one who said that maybe she
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would probably, I felt like they would probably try to do a
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redemption for her or make her not so nasty.
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And you guys were the ones who were like, no, she doesn't need
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to be nice. Like we don't always have to
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redeem our villain characters. Some characters are just
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villains just because they're villains.
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And that's what Agatha is. And that that thought stuck with
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me. So when the ending came and
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Kingo made this convoluted speech, I really was looking at
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it as like, OK, this is about to be the Comic Relief, 'cause
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she's about to look at him and be like, oh, you really think
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so? Yeah.
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No, Neil, I really was expecting that.
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So when it changed and they were at the premiere and she was all
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nice and I was just like, what? It just didn't seem to fit.
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And I I realized what if it's supposed to be?
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What if these characters were different?
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But one of the things about the characters that we've seen and
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what if is that there's always 11 little characteristic of the
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original character or of the live action character that
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carries over into the animated. And I just, I don't know, this
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episode was kind of weird in that sense.
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The whole Howard Stark thing threw me off too, because you
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still have Dominic Cooper voicing him, but he sounds like
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a totally different character. He sounds like he sounds like
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Howard Stark on speed or something.
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It's like his voice was way too high.
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He was too, I think. I think The thing is he was too
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joyful and too animated for me and I'm not used to seeing
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Howard Stark in that way. I'm used to Howard Stark being
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very business. When he makes his jokes or he
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makes his smart ass remarks, he still does it with a straight
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face. You don't really ever see Howard
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Stark like smile or anything like that in the live action.
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So this was a bit much for me, but.
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Before you go, Mike, just one thing Hanukkah touched on.
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We, I think we've talked about this before.
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There's always a persistent trait or characteristic or
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personality. They're always persistent
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regardless of the what if situation.
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It's just they make different decisions or different
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circumstances happen, but for the most part they're still the
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same people and then they still do the same things.
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And here I don't know how, however, Stark is sort of a show
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man. He's wanted to control them, be
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behind. So I, I kind of understand a
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little bit where they were going with them.
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But some of the things he did seem to be out of character out
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of they seem to be out of character for him.
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And the things she was doing was sort of out of character for
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her, especially at the end. Everything else she was doing
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was in character. But then you get to the end and
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and she totally does a turn and it it didn't make any any sense,
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you know, as far as our character goes.
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Yeah, OK, Mike, come on and throw A1A180 on this discussion.
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What did you think about the episode?
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OK, see. So here's the thing, I am a huge
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fan of Art Deco and mid century modern.
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Shout to Anthony for sending that meme this morning about how
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mid century modern is elves and art Deco is dwarfs.
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That was like, that's actually a really good explanation for it.
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But I'm a sucker for that, for that kind, that kind of like
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decoration. And it was all over this episode
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and I loved it. As far as Howard Stark acting,
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acting the way he was, I understood it because they're
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basically turning Howard Stark into Howard Hughes.
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And then because Howard Howard Hughes was basically the same.
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He was basically Howard Stark in real life.
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Like he was a very, he was a very rich guy.
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He was tech savvy. He produced films and he did a
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whole lot of, he did a whole lot of really big things.
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And he he, he tried to have his hands and everything.
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So that's basically what they're doing here.
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And I think I actually really enjoyed it.
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He reminded me of the Howard Stark in the very first at very
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first what if episode, the 1:00 what if captain what if Captain
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Carter meant when they introduced Captain Carter and he
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was the one that he could. That's the that's the Howard
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Stark that he reminded me of in this.
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I don't mind Agatha. I agree with you all's points
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about as far as the ending. I and like, I agree, but I see
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what they were doing because I think they're trying to show
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that Agatha, while she was very powerful, she, she always
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succumbs to the power of adoration and that and they,
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they tried to use the power of fame to get her to, to actually
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fall in line or to or to not change everything.
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Like that's what that's what Kingo was doing.
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He was like, you know, you like everybody loves you.
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You can't do this. And it's just appeal to her.
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I don't necessarily like the ending either.
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I agree that Agatha that it probably could have been
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different. I did enjoy when she became a
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celestial. I loved.
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I loved that animation, I thought.
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That was beautiful. That was very beautiful.
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They did an outstanding job on that.
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I love the fight with Irish M where she where she brought back
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the finale in Wanda World one in Wanda Vision where Wanda Wanda
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set up the rooms when she was fighting Agatha in the air in
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the finale and took her powers away.
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Because that's basically the same thing that she did with
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erosion by shooting out out from him and making a pentagram and
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pinning him on it and stealing his powers.
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That's basically it's kind of a callback.
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It's a callback to that, and I appreciated them doing that.
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I really like this episode. I because I guess I like this,
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this period of time. I love.
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I like the fast talking. This kind of reminds me of it's
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a movie called Down with Love. It's kind of a it's kind of a
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60s and 70s. We had you and Ellen McGregor
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and someone else and and Renee Zellweger, I think.
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But it was a film that was set up like the Cary Grant and the
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Audrey Hepburn movies where they have a whole lot going on and
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they're really peppy and stuff like that.
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And I love those movies. So this would it gave me all
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that and I loved it. I had and I don't know if I'm
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nitpicking, but during the dance sequence, which I which I
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actually really liked, I was looking at Agathist dancers and
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I was like, why are they different colors?
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Like there's some, there's some like if you look at it, it's
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like they, they look all of them have blonde hair.
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All of them like have like gold, gold outfits on, but it's like
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some of them it looked looked like they tried to make some of
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them black and some of them white and some of them Mexican
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and it's like it threw me off and I was like it just looked
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really weird but I. I didn't.
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It didn't register on on. My second, my second on my
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second time through, I caught it and I was in it and it just kind
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of kind of messed me up. But I mean, other than that, I,
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I reasonably enjoyed this episode and it yeah.
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So I'm I'm sure that they're doing this like why they're
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producing to keep giving us the Eternals is because of the
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Falcon movie coming up where they're going to be mining,
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mining adamantium out of the out of the hand that's sticking up
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out of the seat that they brought up in the Eternals
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movie. TMA, Yeah.
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Yeah, TMA that that that I'm sure that's why, you know, she
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killed TMA then he she drained team as power here.
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So they're trying to remind us like see that guy who's going to
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be Rick? He's coming up soon in two
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months. So just, you know, they're
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trying to keep that in mind. Nothing.
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I'm wondering if that's going to be a running theme that they're
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going to do a lot of coming soon, like drops and hints in a
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lot of these, where they're going to have us keep in mind
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what's going to happen in the future.
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But actually, rumor has it that it wasn't working that well.
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So they're going to stop doing that.
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They're going to stop making it where you have to be either
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knowledgeable or watch the Disney push shows that they're
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they're going to get away from that because it's not having the
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desire effect. So.
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Yeah, I can. I can see that, especially
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because I, and I think we, we've said this, we've had this
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discussion on whether or not all the way back to one division
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about whether or not you should have to watch the Disney Plus
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shows in order to understand what's going on in the movies
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and vice versa. And I, I think for a while we
00:19:02
thought, OK, maybe no. But then they started kind of
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going that way to where they were referencing things.
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And it's like if people like with with this episode and with
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the episode before, because I believe they mentioned like they
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had Moon Night in the first episode, they had Shang Shi,
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which Shang Shi is a movie. Most people will have seen that,
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but not a lot of people may have seen Moon Night, even though it
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was one of the better shows. But it's kind of like, why would
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you bring these characters in if you're not going to continue
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them? And we don't right now, Moon
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Night is still up in the air 'cause we don't even know if
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we're getting a second season, even though the rumors are
00:19:38
they're still working on it. But I mean, Moon Night Season 1
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was what, 3, almost four years ago?
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So it's kind of like I don't have a problem with them putting
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the Celestials in the show again.
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I loved the Eternals and I would really like to see a
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continuation of those stories and those characters.
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But if you're doing it here, there are people who probably
00:20:03
didn't watch the Eternals. That's one of the reasons why I
00:20:05
didn't do so well. They're going to wonder like,
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OK, So what is this you guys are talking about?
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Why are these characters here? Who are these characters?
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They may not be as familiar with them.
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Like they just threw out the names when she talked about
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taking their powers. Yeah, Macari and Gilgamesh and
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everybody else. Who is everybody else?
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So it's. Kind of like, yeah, people who
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are watching and they're like who the fuck is he?
00:20:27
Who? First of all, who?
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Who is Kengo? Like what?
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What is it people who haven't seen the internals would have?
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No idea. No, there or people who didn't
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watch Agatha, they they would just they would look at this
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like what? So it's been having a weird
00:20:42
effect, like they thought the synergy would increase
00:20:45
viewership, but it's actually turning people away.
00:20:48
It's having. I think it's having the opposite
00:20:51
effect. Yeah, and part of the problem is
00:20:54
that one, in order to watch the shows, you have to have a
00:20:59
subscription to Disney Plus. And a lot of people are really
00:21:02
starting to cut down on their streaming services, especially
00:21:05
when they keep upping the cost every month, just like Disney
00:21:09
Plus is about to go up. So it's kind of like I keep
00:21:13
Disney Plus because we tend to discuss a lot of Marvel, we
00:21:17
discuss, you know, these types of shows.
00:21:20
So I keep it for that. But other than that, it's like
00:21:23
when you keep increasing the prices and people are not as
00:21:27
invested in those products, then yeah, it's gonna have a not
00:21:32
negative effect because they're not gonna bother watching the
00:21:35
shows. They're like, OK, I got the
00:21:36
movies, that's all I need. And I think you said something
00:21:39
about that, Anthony, that like there are people who only wanna
00:21:42
watch the movies, they don't care about the shows.
00:21:45
But then it's kind of like you think about what's coming up,
00:21:48
Falcon in the Captain America, Brave New World.
00:21:53
Anybody who didn't watch Falcon in The Winter Soldier, they're
00:21:56
gonna be completely lost by a. Lot of that stuff and, and, and
00:22:00
they see Captain America, then they watch the trailer and
00:22:02
realize, oh, Steve Rogers is not in it.
00:22:04
Then they're not going to go watch.
00:22:05
They're not interested. It's like them, it's not Captain
00:22:08
America. He's not Captain America because
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they didn't watch Falcon and Winter Soldier.
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So they don't. They don't know.
00:22:14
They could have got that from end game.
00:22:15
Right. Go back to the conversation we
00:22:18
had before. You're supposed to make the
00:22:21
leap. When Cap gives him the shield
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and says it's you now. Then the next time you see Sam,
00:22:27
he's Captain America. For some people, that's going to
00:22:30
make sense for them, but it's been so much time since we've
00:22:34
seen that. Yeah, and like so much.
00:22:37
Time. You have Ramirez, the new, the
00:22:41
new Falcon. I mean, let's, let's just say
00:22:44
like this, we're, if we're just going by the trailer for the new
00:22:46
Captain America movie, nobody's nobody who didn't watch Falcon
00:22:52
in The Winter Soldier. They're not gonna know who
00:22:54
Ramirez is. They're not gonna know who
00:22:56
Isaiah Bradley is. They're not gonna understand.
00:23:00
Well, I guess they can read, but they're not gonna understand.
00:23:03
Like, how is this Thunderbolt Ross?
00:23:05
Like when did Harrison Ford get into that position 'cause there
00:23:08
are some people who really don't pay attention to.
00:23:12
I know a lot of people who know the the characters, but if when
00:23:16
it comes to the actors and what they do outside of what this
00:23:19
movie is, they don't know. So a lot of people don't know
00:23:21
William Hurt is dead and that he was, you know, so it's just kind
00:23:24
of like the continuity. I think.
00:23:30
I just don't know if it's going to be there enough for people to
00:23:34
to care, especially people who aren't the diehards like us or
00:23:38
the people who may not have watched the Disney Plus series,
00:23:42
but they are the comic book people.
00:23:43
So they know what the story is supposed to be, but I don't.
00:23:47
Think that I don't think that people who aren't watching the
00:23:51
show haven't watched the shows before are going to start now.
00:23:54
It's like I just think they're right.
00:23:55
I've I've I've I've given up, I've given up hope.
00:23:58
I'm I'm keep thinking that people might just check out one
00:24:01
or two, but people just don't care.
00:24:03
Even the people that watch it are still going to be the main
00:24:06
ones that are going to complain about how that why, like why am
00:24:09
I watching this? It's like the people have been
00:24:11
complaining like they'll watch they'll watch the series, then
00:24:14
they'll complain like they're already complaining about
00:24:15
ironheart. Ironheart hasn't even started
00:24:17
yet. They're like, how?
00:24:19
Why is she Tony Stark? Where's Tony Stark?
00:24:20
I'm like, you haven't even watched the fucking show.
00:24:24
Like at least watch the show then you can complain about it
00:24:27
then you know, you might have a valid point, but if you haven't
00:24:29
watched the shit then shut, then shut the fuck up till you see
00:24:32
it. Like that should be.
00:24:33
It pisses me. It just pisses me off because
00:24:36
I'd rather people just give it a shot instead of just listening
00:24:38
to what other people say and going off that and not watching
00:24:41
it. It's just like with this, it's
00:24:43
like with Eternals. It's like, I know a lot of
00:24:45
people. I it's it's still mid mid to mid
00:24:49
high from mid mid for me, like I there were there were some good
00:24:52
moments, some bad moments in the movie, but I know some people
00:24:54
who absolutely love the eternals and probably really and but and
00:25:00
love this and love and love and love the little throwbacks
00:25:03
because they get a little bit. It's just like us when last
00:25:06
episode with moonlight, we're so glad to see them because we
00:25:09
don't we didn't get anything. We haven't gotten anything from
00:25:12
them in like a year and a half, two years and you've and you're
00:25:15
they're throwing us a bomb. Like, OK, cool, thank you.
00:25:17
It's just like that's what this is for people who love the
00:25:20
Eternals. And I just, I really just would
00:25:24
wish that people would give something a chance before they
00:25:27
before they start shitting on it, at least at least watch it.
00:25:30
Watch a couple episodes before you do something.
00:25:32
Yeah, but you, you're always going to have a certain segment
00:25:36
that's going to hate for reasons other than the actual content.
00:25:42
All they see is a black girl who was replacing Tony Stark, and
00:25:45
they have a problem. So that's true.
00:25:49
You you almost have to kind of disregard them, but you're
00:25:52
you're right. They they make enough noise.
00:25:55
It's a small group of people making enough noise for other
00:25:58
people to take notice and be like, Oh well, I I don't have to
00:26:01
watch it. Yes, we.
00:26:03
Will get the gets the griefs. Yeah, and and like this, but
00:26:09
along with that comes this whole idea that where where they're
00:26:16
trying to it's, it's like the referencing.
00:26:21
OK, so as is, as it's pretty clear why Division really burned
00:26:26
me on a lot of this stuff, right.
00:26:29
I don't mind references and callbacks, but when your whole
00:26:35
thing deals with references and callbacks, if that's what you're
00:26:39
building the show on, if that's what you're building the episode
00:26:42
on, then you're building on the House of cards because you have
00:26:47
people who don't get the references and they don't get
00:26:49
the car backs and it's not enjoyable for them.
00:26:52
So people like, like myself and Mike and you and Lori, we see
00:26:57
these little things like, oh, that's cool.
00:26:59
Oh, that's cool. Then the majority of people,
00:27:03
let's just be honest. The majority of people, yeah,
00:27:06
they do not watch comic books, they do not watch animated
00:27:10
stuff. They haven't seen anything about
00:27:13
Marvel since, you know, they were teenagers 30-40 years ago.
00:27:18
So they don't have a point of reference for this stuff.
00:27:21
And to them, it's either got for them, it's got to be good and
00:27:25
it's got to be engaging. If your engagement is based on
00:27:28
references and callbacks, you're not going to get the majority of
00:27:32
people. I'm not seeing the majority of
00:27:34
people are stupid. I'm just saying the majority of
00:27:37
people don't have a library of knowledge.
00:27:40
They don't have stuff they can go back to and refer to.
00:27:43
But Oh yeah, I get it. The majority of people just
00:27:47
don't. And I think.
00:27:48
Them don't care as like we are all invested in these characters
00:27:53
and invested in these properties and there are some people who
00:27:56
are just and there's nothing wrong with this.
00:27:58
There are people who are just casual fans, just.
00:28:01
Watch it and enjoy it. So that's that first level.
00:28:05
By the time you get to us, the population is.
00:28:09
Small, like level 678, Yeah. Right.
00:28:11
The population is small, so if you make an episode like this
00:28:15
episode, but there's a lot of references to things.
00:28:22
When there are a lot of references, it's very difficult
00:28:25
for the cat we call casuals. It's very difficult for casual
00:28:29
to want to see here and enjoy the show.
00:28:31
So they either have to be a huge fan of Katherine Hahn or a huge
00:28:35
fan of Agatha Hartness or a huge fan of Howard Stark or a huge
00:28:39
fan of Eternals. If they're not any three of
00:28:41
those things. This episode was missed.
00:28:43
Yeah, Yeah. Especially as a what if.
00:28:47
Because if you go back and and and even the first season, what
00:28:51
if it's kind of cool with it's like, what if this happened in
00:28:55
this one event changes things. Well, this one is What If an
00:28:58
Agatha Hartness with the Hollywood.
00:29:02
Yeah, but also too with the 1st 2, with the first two seasons of
00:29:06
what if and, and it's kind of like, I think this is one of the
00:29:10
problems also with the current phases of the MCU, with the
00:29:15
earlier ones, you're dealing with characters that have
00:29:18
already been established, characters that are well known.
00:29:23
Like even the casual fans can reference and can tell you about
00:29:27
Tony, Tony Stark, Iron Man, Captain America.
00:29:32
They can tell you a little bit about Captain Carter, just a
00:29:34
little bit, but enough to know that, OK, this kind of makes
00:29:38
sense. But now with this third season
00:29:41
and then also with the newer phases of the MCU, you know,
00:29:45
you're trying to introduce new characters, you're trying to
00:29:48
tell a different story, which I have no problem with that.
00:29:51
But the problem is with the earlier phases, with the
00:29:55
Infinity Saga, you didn't have TV shows that you had to pay
00:29:58
attention to in order to keep track of the storyline.
00:30:01
And I think that's, you know, like you said, that's part of
00:30:04
the problem with it. Now, like for us, those of us
00:30:07
who love this, this world, when they announced that they were
00:30:11
doing this, we were all excited. We were like, yes, give me more,
00:30:14
give me more. And now we see that that may not
00:30:17
necessarily be a good thing, especially if the shows don't
00:30:22
perform as well as they want and then they end or even the movies
00:30:26
and they end up canceling what they were working towards.
00:30:30
Like, you know, we, Mike and I mentioned this in the last
00:30:32
episode, the whole thing with Eternals.
00:30:35
Not only does that mean the Eternals too is not happening,
00:30:39
we may not get the Black Knight. We see Blade has been in trouble
00:30:44
from jump almost. So we don't even like they can
00:30:47
tell us that we're still getting Blade, but right now we don't
00:30:49
even know. And it's kind of like you, you,
00:30:52
you sit there and you give us these little bits and you tease
00:30:56
us. And then when it doesn't happen
00:30:58
the way you want it to happen, you kind of take it.
00:31:01
And then we're kind of stuck in this limbo again.
00:31:04
I have a problem with them bringing the Eternals in, but
00:31:10
some of this would not make sense to anyone who did not
00:31:13
watch the Eternals or who did not watch Agatha or even I've
00:31:16
watched both and I still have questions like getting back to
00:31:19
the episode. OK, Is Agatha Harkness really
00:31:24
powerful enough to overtake Celestials or Eternals and and
00:31:32
take their powers? Like, to me, that doesn't make
00:31:36
sense. But I don't know because, again,
00:31:38
I'm not as familiar with her character and what she's capable
00:31:42
of doing. But when when she pulled out
00:31:44
Fina's shield and Kingo said that's Fina's power and she was
00:31:50
like, yeah, and Macari's and Gilgamesh.
00:31:52
So you mean to tell me you have all of these powers for these
00:31:55
Eternals? How?
00:31:58
And I don't ever remember them. OK, I did watch Agatha and I
00:32:03
watched one division. I never got the impression that
00:32:07
Agatha was rogue that that I I feel like she was just stealing
00:32:11
their power, not actually stealing the actual thing that
00:32:16
the person does. I got that impression.
00:32:19
I could be wrong. But they never gave us that
00:32:21
indication. So I want to with them change a
00:32:25
little bit. But my issue is with the story,
00:32:28
like you have the movies that more a lot of people have seen,
00:32:33
even the casuals. So take some of those things and
00:32:38
and and make the what ifs like what if Agatha hardness became
00:32:43
the Scarlet Witch? Oh, so you could have had a
00:32:46
really cool episode. You know, you because then you,
00:32:50
you first you take you show people who Agatha is and because
00:32:54
they all know who the Scarlet Witch is and you get started off
00:32:57
with her stealing Scarlett's, you know, stealing Wander's
00:33:02
power, you know, and then, oh, well, damn, then they get the
00:33:05
one who Agathes. They might actually go back and
00:33:07
watch the Agatha show, right. So you have to I I don't know, I
00:33:15
don't know if they have AI writing these stories, because
00:33:19
I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you, I'm going
00:33:21
to tell you. First of all, don't knock it
00:33:24
because I took the prologue of my book and I put it in ChatGPT
00:33:29
and they gave me some good ass suggestions to make changes.
00:33:33
And then I asked it, could you rewrite the prologue for me with
00:33:36
those changes? It did.
00:33:39
And do you know it was better than what I wrote with just a
00:33:44
few. And it wasn't like they, it
00:33:45
wasn't like it made a bunch of changes.
00:33:48
He said if you just do these two or three things, it would be
00:33:50
more engaging to the reader. He did those two or three things
00:33:54
without changing my story at all.
00:33:56
And it was really, really good. And I was kind of jealous, you
00:34:00
know, and, and so it wouldn't surprise me if they have used a
00:34:06
little bit of ChatGPT to figure some of this stuff out.
00:34:10
But like, I could throw that in to ChatGPT.
00:34:13
What if Agatha Hardness became the Scarlet Witch?
00:34:16
And it would give me a good ass story.
00:34:18
I'm almost certain of it. And so, but that's the thing I'm
00:34:22
saying, like, if you're going to do these with this, do it based
00:34:24
on things that we sort of have most people have a reference to
00:34:29
that way we all can enjoy it. I didn't enjoy it because it
00:34:33
was, it was just a little I, I won't say I didn't enjoy it
00:34:36
because I did think some parts of it was cool.
00:34:39
It's not that I didn't like the episode.
00:34:41
I just thought it could have been better.
00:34:43
And it was the sort of like blah for me.
00:34:46
Like it was kind of empty because at the end, like
00:34:50
Hanukkah said, Agatha didn't do Agatha, so she didn't.
00:34:54
And some was like, Oh well, you just kind of discounted the
00:34:57
character completely. And then you bring in, you know,
00:35:00
at the very, very end, you bring in some celestials who may be
00:35:06
coming to get revenge because she killed Arashim.
00:35:09
And it's kind of like, OK, are we even going to see the sequel
00:35:12
to this? You know, like, is this
00:35:15
something that we're going to see in one of the later
00:35:17
episodes? How is this all connected?
00:35:18
And again, if you're not a fan of the Eternals, why would you
00:35:24
care about this episode? So.
00:35:29
I think that as far as as far as like Agatha been able to take
00:35:32
the powers, I wondered about that myself.
00:35:34
I just think that they made a linear assumption that, you
00:35:37
know, that people would if they know.
00:35:39
Again, they're making assumption that people know who Agatha is
00:35:42
to say, okay, Agatha can take powers from, which is maybe she
00:35:45
that's her thing is power absorption.
00:35:47
So they just went linearly to that point and didn't really
00:35:51
explain it. Not the best explanation, but it
00:35:54
just seems like they just drew a line from there to there and
00:35:57
probably drew a line over a lot of exposition that could have
00:36:00
helped or over an explanation that probably made more sense,
00:36:03
but that's not probably the line that they drew.
00:36:05
Also, I just think that James Gunn spoiled Marvel because
00:36:11
James Gunn took the galleries of the Galaxy, a comic that nobody
00:36:15
knew anything about, and made it one of the most popular movie
00:36:18
trio in in the MCU and he did that with something that nobody
00:36:23
knew about. That's why they were so gay.
00:36:26
Everybody leeway with characters like Agatha, characters like the
00:36:29
Eternals and every other thing that hasn't that doesn't really
00:36:33
have a big following and they get, you know, they give them
00:36:38
enough rope to hang themselves and here we are.
00:36:41
I think that most people probably don't care.
00:36:43
They like, oh fuck, 'cause we want to see, we want to see Cap.
00:36:45
We want to see, OK, not that cap.
00:36:47
We want to see the other Cap or we want to see Iron Man or we
00:36:50
want to see, you know, a character that we know something
00:36:53
about. But you know, it's just like
00:36:55
trying to think we're all parents when we try, when we try
00:36:58
to feed kids something new that's going to be good for
00:37:01
them, they'll spit it back at us or they'll turn their head and
00:37:03
pout. But then sooner or later, like
00:37:06
every now and then, you'll get a, you'll hit on something where
00:37:09
they'll be like, oh, now that's all they want to eat.
00:37:12
But OK, I digress. But my, my point is like people
00:37:16
like that, that's how fans are. It's like fans will will like
00:37:21
discount something like and not like it just for whatever
00:37:24
reason, or then they'll latch on to something.
00:37:28
Then I'm not even kind of giving them a few excuse, but I'm just
00:37:33
saying that it's difficult to keep up with it sometimes, but
00:37:37
it no, it's really actually it's really not.
00:37:40
If someone doesn't like it, I mean, they've been doing it like
00:37:43
cancelling things that don't work.
00:37:44
So, but I just think they need to be more careful with who's
00:37:50
running these things, who's running whatever projects
00:37:52
they're doing, especially if they're new ones, if there's
00:37:54
something. That they don't have James Gunn
00:37:57
anymore. You know, that was kind of AI.
00:38:00
Don't, I don't want to say like a farce or anything, but it's
00:38:03
like he was very, he was very singular in his focus with
00:38:11
bringing Guardians of the Galaxy was like, OK, you know what?
00:38:14
I'm going to do this. I'm going to take these obscure
00:38:17
comic book characters that nobody really knows, nobody pays
00:38:20
attention to, and I'm going to make them great.
00:38:23
And it's like people, when, when I remember when Guardians of the
00:38:26
Galaxy was announced that I remember people being like,
00:38:29
what? Why?
00:38:31
And like you said, it became one of the best trilogies out there.
00:38:35
Even the Christmas special was great.
00:38:39
So it's kind of like, unless you have someone who can, who you
00:38:42
know, can do that, I don't know. It's just I, I get what they're
00:38:50
trying to do. It's very ambitious.
00:38:53
We've always said this with, with Marvel, they're, they're
00:38:57
very ambitious. They're aiming high.
00:39:00
But it's kind of like I again, I think they kind of need to take
00:39:04
a step back and look at what they're doing and what path
00:39:07
they're following and, and see what makes sense.
00:39:10
Because again, why bring the Eternals in now, especially if
00:39:16
you're not going to continue this story?
00:39:18
Why tease Moonlight, which again, I'm not complaining about
00:39:22
because I want that second season, but it it's just kind
00:39:27
of, I guess we have to wait and see what the other episodes are
00:39:31
going to be like to see how they are connecting and maybe it'll
00:39:34
make more sense then. But like right now, this early
00:39:37
on in the third season, I'm just kind of like, what is it?
00:39:41
You know, and then you're bringing questionable things
00:39:45
about the characters that we already know, like Kingo in this
00:39:49
was Kingo the entire episode through.
00:39:52
He never changed. He wasn't different.
00:39:55
That part I like, but again, if people aren't familiar with who
00:39:58
the hell Kingo is, they're going to be like who the fuck is this
00:40:00
and why is he dancing on my screen?
00:40:03
As far as Agatha goes, again, there's nothing that I've seen
00:40:08
about her character that makes me think she is strong enough to
00:40:12
overpower not just one Eternal. But what, there were seven of
00:40:18
them all together, and if Kingo is the only one left and Arisha
00:40:22
made him the Prime Eternal, that means she overpowered six of
00:40:26
them. And given who you're talking
00:40:29
about, Cersei, you're talking us about Sprite, Icarus, Fina,
00:40:33
Gilgamesh, Maccari. I just, I just don't see that
00:40:38
happening. Yeah, I I totally agree with
00:40:43
you. I just it, it's, it's a hard no,
00:40:48
it's a difficult concept to wrap your head around.
00:40:52
I, I, I don't know, like you said, we'll just have to see
00:40:56
where this is going because, you know, we have, we have had an
00:41:01
episode in season 1 and episode in season 2 that didn't go with
00:41:05
the overall story. So it's possible that this may
00:41:08
not go with overall story. We'll, we'll just have to wait
00:41:11
and see. You know, I, I don't mind.
00:41:18
I don't mind it being like a overall story.
00:41:21
I really don't what appeal to me about what if is the what if,
00:41:28
you know, like what if a certain event changed something or a
00:41:32
certain choice changed the direction of a character's life
00:41:36
or how a story goes. That is the appeal of what if.
00:41:40
The appeal of what if isn't to me really the the overall plot
00:41:45
arc that they're trying to do. I I don't care about that as
00:41:48
much as I care about these these actual what ifs.
00:41:53
And as a standalone this episode, what if Agatha went,
00:41:58
why would she go to Hollywood? You know, the Agatha in in
00:42:03
Agatha all along. Was he looking for adoration?
00:42:08
She was just killing witches for power like there was.
00:42:13
There was no adoration in that. She wasn't trying to become
00:42:18
notable, she wasn't trying to take over the world.
00:42:21
She just wanted power. I mean, she did, She did.
00:42:24
She didn't note that she was that the Wicked Witch of the
00:42:27
West Witch, Wicked Witch of the West was based on her.
00:42:29
So she did know a little bit of it.
00:42:31
Yeah, but still for no, she still.
00:42:34
Didn't want adoration, she just wanted power.
00:42:37
Right, right. And I, and I get I guess the way
00:42:41
that they kind of describe it in the beginning is she she heard
00:42:45
about the celestial that was in the middle of the earth TMN and
00:42:49
she wanted TMN's prop child. OK, But the thing about she went
00:42:55
to where, you know, she went to Hollywood because that's where
00:43:00
dreams come true and that's where power is and blop, like I
00:43:05
was just like. No, I think she just went there
00:43:08
to get TMN's power. She got from anywhere.
00:43:13
Maybe. Maybe in Hollywood that's the
00:43:15
spot where she could be close enough to get it, I don't know.
00:43:19
They made it. They made it seem like her
00:43:23
powers are being boosted by the Adoration.
00:43:25
Yeah, it says because I'm, I'm looking at it.
00:43:29
They're looking looking to take the cosmic powers for herself.
00:43:34
Talking about TMX powers, it says.
00:43:37
Looking to take his cosmic power for itself, she set out to
00:43:40
design A spell to siphon its power.
00:43:43
But pulling off a ritual of that scale will require an equally
00:43:46
big production. So she turned to a blossoming
00:43:49
industry that had built its reputation financing the big
00:43:53
dreams of even bigger egos. Yeah, but ultimately?
00:43:58
Hollywood, but. The thing, but then the way they
00:44:02
made the the way they wrote it, she only just needed Kingo's
00:44:06
power in order to complete the ritual.
00:44:09
Right. No matter what she did, she was
00:44:11
never going to be able to do it without his power.
00:44:13
So to me, that makes me think that she didn't need to be in
00:44:16
Hollywood to do that. Well, I guess in a in a sense,
00:44:20
because the way that they lured Kingo there, even though yes,
00:44:24
Kingo was aware of who she was, the whole thing, I think the tie
00:44:29
in with Hollywood is because Kingo is the big movie star and
00:44:31
that was the draw for him. Even in the Eternals movies,
00:44:35
Kingo was a movie star. That was his thing.
00:44:38
Like he was willing to let his friends do whatever as long as
00:44:44
he was able to keep his acting going, his adoration from his
00:44:48
fans, like that's what feeds him.
00:44:51
So I guess in a way I can see Agatha using that to lure him
00:44:55
in. But it just, I, I don't know, I
00:45:00
guess it would have made sense if if the title was what if
00:45:03
Agatha became a celestial? Just something to that effect.
00:45:09
But like, what if Agatha went to Hollywood?
00:45:11
I was looking at that title. Like, do I even care really?
00:45:17
So, yeah, I, I don't know, I don't know.
00:45:22
I just, I, I really wanted to like this episode a lot more
00:45:26
than I did. And it's just because of those
00:45:29
little things on top of the fact that I just, I can't, I just, I
00:45:33
don't know, something about Agatha or the something about
00:45:36
that character I just can't seem to vibe with.
00:45:40
She literally could have just gone to Bollywood and stole his
00:45:43
power. Yeah.
00:45:47
And then did her spell like. Or she could have just let it be
00:45:51
known that she had captured the other Eternals.
00:45:55
And he would have come, yeah, he would have come to try to free
00:45:59
them. Here's the other thing that
00:46:04
doesn't really make sense about all of this.
00:46:10
You you overpower 6 Eternals and it's not until the last one the
00:46:19
Arisham decides to come in and be like, hold up, what you
00:46:22
doing? That doesn't seem again,
00:46:25
plausible to me, not given what I know about Arisham from the
00:46:30
movie. You know, Arisham is based.
00:46:33
Oh, OK, so you're doing this. OK.
00:46:36
You're about to you're about to mess up with the emergence.
00:46:39
Let me kind of step in or let me do like, I feel like if
00:46:44
anything, he would have sent Kingo after Agatha, especially
00:46:49
if he realized that the other celestials weren't destroyed,
00:46:53
but they were just being held captive.
00:46:56
So I don't know the story, just kind of it.
00:46:59
It's weird to me. And I know again, this is what
00:47:02
if this is a variation, this is people acting different.
00:47:06
But there are always, like I said, core characteristics about
00:47:10
these characters. That is true in every
00:47:14
reiteration of them, regardless of where they are in the
00:47:17
multiverse, 'cause this let's let's be honest, what if it's
00:47:20
just another it, it's another multiverse within the MCU, it's
00:47:24
another timeline. So I, I don't know, I just, I
00:47:32
don't know. I just it, it just, it was
00:47:34
weird. And like you said, there were,
00:47:37
there were some good things about it.
00:47:39
The animation, some of the animation was really good.
00:47:42
The animation of Agatha becoming the celestial, that was great.
00:47:48
I did enjoy the fight with her and Arisham because Arisham is a
00:47:51
right prick. So to see her punch him in the
00:47:53
face and then take his powers, OK, that's cool.
00:47:57
But again, is she really powerful enough to have done all
00:48:01
of that to get to that point where she can take a celestial
00:48:04
power? I just, I, I don't know if I, I
00:48:08
don't know if I think that's true of her character.
00:48:11
I think I mean the way they set it up it's like OK she took the
00:48:16
powers from all the eternals to get the first celestial who was
00:48:20
bound still and had and hadn't come free.
00:48:23
So I mean she already had the power of 1 celestial and five
00:48:27
eternals. But but the question is, how did
00:48:30
she get again, how did she get the Eternals?
00:48:33
Because I just don't see that happening.
00:48:36
She probably. First of all, I don't see her
00:48:38
catching Macari for anything. Yeah, Macari would have been a
00:48:41
difficult only if she caught if she got Eucharist first, which
00:48:46
seems a little weird. It's.
00:48:49
Easier to get easier than Macari.
00:48:52
Yeah, yeah. And Fina, Fina she catch.
00:48:57
She catch Steven slipping because she has she's mentally
00:49:00
deteriorating and if she if something happens she could
00:49:03
literally catch her. She she probably caught me off
00:49:06
guard and once she caught Fina Icarus, she could have got
00:49:09
Gilgamesh. Yeah.
00:49:11
And then after Gilgamesh, with Gilgamesh and Phoenix power,
00:49:15
Icarus would have been a little easier.
00:49:18
But but. See the thing?
00:49:20
It will be difficult. Macari would be difficult, but
00:49:25
if she captured Druid I could see Macari coming to try to save
00:49:30
him. But again Druick is one of like
00:49:32
Druick was the one where all of the other Eternals were doing
00:49:36
shit. Druick was over here on the side
00:49:38
like you know what y'all can do your shit I'm gonna be over
00:49:40
here. He to me seemed like one of the
00:49:42
more intelligent ones so I don't see him falling for anything
00:49:47
that Agatha could have or would have done to steal his powers.
00:49:51
So again, I'm just, I don't know if I feel like Agatha is
00:49:58
powerful enough and even smart enough to outmaneuver an
00:50:05
eternal, much less what, 6 of them?
00:50:09
I think, I think she, I mean, it's just a little, like I said,
00:50:12
it's a, it's a linear assumption.
00:50:13
It's just like if she got it, if she got powerful enough from
00:50:16
eating and eating enough witches, then I mean, it could
00:50:21
happen. It is plausible.
00:50:22
It's not like she's going in there without any powers.
00:50:25
She's going in there. They're talking about beings who
00:50:27
have the capabilities to destroy worlds, to destroy we're.
00:50:32
Also, talking about the Mystic arts, we're also talking about
00:50:35
the Mystic arts. Though the Mystic arts have a
00:50:36
lot Mystic arts are broad. There's something she could find
00:50:40
in the Mystic arts to to either bind someone or take their
00:50:43
powers. There's something in there, you
00:50:45
know it. And to be honest, we don't know
00:50:48
who she has taken. She may have gone after Doctor
00:50:52
Strange. Wait, Oh no, we're we're too far
00:50:54
back in time. She could have gone after
00:50:56
whoever the Sorcerer's Supreme was at the time, which would
00:50:59
have been the Ancient One and the Dark if she had the.
00:51:04
Dark, cold, then then there's absolutely possible that she
00:51:06
could have. Taken.
00:51:08
They gave them an indication that she had a dark cold.
00:51:10
I know, but I'm saying I'm just, I'm just saying there, there
00:51:13
are, there are. Ways that this that this is
00:51:15
plausible? It's plausible.
00:51:18
It's just you have to it's you have to make an assumption.
00:51:23
You have to make a pretty broad assumption to get her to this
00:51:27
point. Where where where we have that
00:51:32
she would be able to take out the Eternals.
00:51:34
OK, yeah, one by one. We know that at least a couple
00:51:39
of them, they were not like Gilgamesh was with Fina that
00:51:43
that she would have to fight both of them.
00:51:47
That's if all of that happens in this timeline.
00:51:49
But again, that, yeah, that that would be like, we could throw so
00:51:54
many stones because literally So what if episode.
00:51:57
So we would, like you said, Anthony, we would have to make a
00:52:01
lot of broad assumptions. We'd have to assume that Fina
00:52:05
was incapacitated mentally because of what she was going
00:52:08
through. We have to assume that Gilgamesh
00:52:11
was so focused on her that he wasn't paying attention to
00:52:13
anything else. Icarus could have been off world
00:52:16
like he has been, and that was probably why.
00:52:19
So yeah, I just OK, I, I'll, I'll try not to be biased, but
00:52:26
I'm like, I don't buy it, but. It is he just goes to show that
00:52:32
I know that writing television episodes is not easy, but I
00:52:37
think the writers of of this episode or or this season, I I
00:52:44
think they had an end game. I think they had a goal for the
00:52:47
end. And this is one of the ways they
00:52:49
need to get to that end. They need it for Agatha, for
00:52:53
some reason, to become a celestial.
00:52:55
OK. And this is what we got.
00:53:01
This is what we got. Yeah.
00:53:03
And and even though we might think, you know, if she was a
00:53:06
Scarlet Witch, it might be more believable.
00:53:10
Yeah. But Wanda wouldn't be born at
00:53:14
this time yet, so yeah, yeah. OK.
00:53:21
They wanted to use Howard Stark OK it.
00:53:27
Was so weird and Jarvis was just port Jarvis.
00:53:31
Port Jarvis. Wasn't Paul Bittany?
00:53:33
I'm like, you know Paul Bittany. No it.
00:53:35
Was James? No, it was James Darcy.
00:53:36
He was the guy that was in nature.
00:53:37
Carter. I know what was I saying?
00:53:41
Port Jarvis, because he was just Howard Stark was just so off the
00:53:47
chain. Yeah, we took all the safety
00:53:49
precautions out. The pyrotechnics.
00:53:50
What? Which house is it?
00:53:53
The one that makes you question what did he say?
00:53:55
The one that makes you question the the something about
00:54:00
capitalism. I was like.
00:54:01
Yeah, the house at the top of the hill, The Hollywood sign.
00:54:07
Yeah, You question. Yeah.
00:54:09
Weird. Anyway.
00:54:13
OK, so I think so I, I think we've come to a consensus like
00:54:17
Anthony and I were kind of like in May on the episode Mike love
00:54:22
the episode, which I think is that puts it's kind of like in
00:54:27
the middle for the, for the two episodes.
00:54:29
Because again, I really did like the first episode.
00:54:31
Like I know you haven't had a chance to hear it, Anthony,
00:54:35
because I haven't published the episode yet, but Mike and I were
00:54:38
giddy. We were like, oh, 80s, you know,
00:54:40
80s callbacks love letter to the 80s.
00:54:43
And we were it, it was, it was basically the nostalgia and I
00:54:47
loved it because I was like, OK, this is fun.
00:54:50
This means that they're going to do fun stuff.
00:54:52
And then we get this episode and I'm just kind of like, OK, so
00:54:56
now we just we have nowhere to go but up, right?
00:55:00
So hopefully the third. Episode Not to bring up the
00:55:05
first episode again, but that first episode is a worst version
00:55:10
of this episode for me. Because if you, I guess, if you
00:55:17
hadn't seen Pacific Rim, if you didn't really care for Godzilla
00:55:21
and you didn't really watch Voltron.
00:55:23
Or Gobots or or. Whatever you're you're OK, I
00:55:29
guess. It's cool.
00:55:31
Yeah, yeah, basically, if you're not into what Kaiju culture at
00:55:36
all. Yeah, or mix.
00:55:40
You're just, you're just out of luck.
00:55:43
Yeah, basically. But I I still love that episode.
00:55:46
And I mean. Of course you do.
00:55:48
I'm watching it and I'm like, this is right here at Mike's
00:55:51
salary. Thank you exactly.
00:55:54
Like. We watched the episode like 3 or
00:55:57
4 times. Yeah.
00:55:58
Or certain other ones. But yes, I.
00:56:01
Who doesn't like Kaiju? He doesn't like mix, right?
00:56:06
It was just a lot of too much like Voltron.
00:56:12
Yeah. Oh, weird story, that weird
00:56:14
story. Side note, before we go, so I
00:56:17
was showing Bailey pictures of myself when I was younger.
00:56:21
There's a picture of me. I think I was maybe 11 or 12
00:56:24
with the Voltron. She's she looks like she's like,
00:56:30
wait a second, that's Voltron. I was like, yeah, she's like,
00:56:33
wait, but but you had me watch it it.
00:56:36
I said that was a reboot like two years ago.
00:56:39
She was. Like something brown.
00:56:42
Yeah. She's like, so you around when
00:56:44
it first came out. Let's see.
00:56:46
Yeah. She's like.
00:56:47
Because she had no clue. She thought it was new.
00:56:51
Let's say Jack. Or didn't it?
00:56:53
Yeah, it did. It was almost as bad as when my
00:56:56
when my nephew was watching Gilligan's Island, I walked into
00:57:00
the room and it's like, oh, you're watching.
00:57:02
He's like, yeah, you never get off the island.
00:57:04
He's like, wait, what? Yeah, He was like, when will
00:57:08
this show out? You showed us how before I was
00:57:11
born. So he's like, Oh my God, it's
00:57:15
not you. He said no, these all, most of
00:57:17
the cast is dead. God he, he.
00:57:19
Can't. He couldn't tell by the
00:57:21
production quality by the way it looks.
00:57:23
I mean it looks very 60s. At the time he was like 10 or
00:57:27
11. Oh, OK, OK.
00:57:29
And so, you know, he, he thought he was watching it in the first
00:57:32
round, just like Bailey thought. Spoiled it for him.
00:57:36
I didn't realize that he didn't know he was watching TV Land.
00:57:41
Anyone who remembers TV and even though it was nothing but
00:57:44
repeats of stuff so and once I explained it to him, he was like
00:57:49
everything he was watching on TV Land had already happened.
00:57:54
For the most part anyway. Anyway, so yeah, I feel old
00:57:59
after Voltron. She she thought she didn't know
00:58:02
that there was a Voltron before that.
00:58:05
And it blew her mind when I found out yeah, that show was
00:58:07
like the 3rd or 4th iteration of Voltron.
00:58:10
This this happened to several different animation styles
00:58:14
anyway, So yeah, too, too much reference.
00:58:17
And I think this is a problem that we're going to have with if
00:58:20
they're they're going to go away from actual, they're not going
00:58:23
to focus on the meat of the stories, but on and how how many
00:58:27
references and callbacks can we put in the show?
00:58:30
And and that that you know, nobody who doesn't do theories
00:58:37
wants that nobody. You know what?
00:58:40
Look at man, at any rate. You guys have anything final to
00:58:45
say about this episode? I'm shout for Howard, knowing
00:58:48
that, knowing about Kingo and Agatha all along and they were
00:58:52
like, you knew he's like you're the smartest person in the
00:58:54
world. Of course I knew like I'm I'm
00:58:56
saving you. I got you so I can save money on
00:58:58
effects. And I was like, that's a
00:59:00
fucking. That sounds like a Howard Stark
00:59:02
thing. Like a Howard Stark thing.
00:59:04
I was like, that's perfect. What else do I have?
00:59:10
Shout out for the dancers. When when Kingo did his did his
00:59:14
little gun shooting thing and he was and she was like, oh, so
00:59:18
your special powers are gun fingers.
00:59:20
It's like Pew, Pew, Pew. Then all the dancers are going.
00:59:22
He's like no, no, no, stop, stop, stop.
00:59:26
That was awesome. Yeah, this was so good.
00:59:32
See, I start, I started to wait and watch it with Michelle
00:59:34
because Michelle loves Art Deco stuff too.
00:59:36
But she would have been like totally lost, just like we've
00:59:38
been discussing for the last hour because she had, she won't
00:59:41
remember Eternals and she hadn't seen Agatha yet.
00:59:43
So OK, it's like, but I've still thoroughly enjoyed this thing.
00:59:50
I mean, other than the few little problems I had.
00:59:52
I I just thought it was good. I think I just kind of, that's
00:59:58
my, I think that's, that's what's wrong with me.
00:59:59
It's like I turn off. I turn off my, the part of my
01:00:02
brain that wants an explanation for everything and I just watch
01:00:05
stuff and finds that and just just find stuff that like
01:00:08
entertains me. I'm like, OK, cool.
01:00:11
And I just sit there dueling and watch it and like, OK, that was
01:00:14
good. Then I'll turn my then I'll turn
01:00:15
the other part back on. I'll I'll start start thinking
01:00:18
critically. Then I watch it again.
01:00:20
OK. But yeah, I do.
01:00:23
I thoroughly enjoy this. I thought was good.
01:00:25
OK, like I'm in the middle. I, I would say the only thing I,
01:00:30
I want to see more Kingo because I like Camille Nanjiani in that
01:00:34
role. He's like so funny.
01:00:37
And I just again, I like the Eternals characters and I would
01:00:41
love to see more of them, but I I would rather see them in live
01:00:45
action than animation. I, I have the opposite problem
01:00:51
that Mike has that is very hard for me to watch things without
01:00:56
being critical. And, and what happens is if
01:01:01
something starts off and it doesn't pull me in, I don't
01:01:03
really enjoy it. Then I turn on the critical part
01:01:08
and, and it starts going downhill from there.
01:01:11
Why do I not like this? They have to ask myself why I'm
01:01:14
not like this? What is wrong with this?
01:01:17
And then that's when you start looking for, OK, I don't like it
01:01:19
because of this. I don't like it because of that.
01:01:21
But if I like something, if it started and I like it, then I'm
01:01:24
like Mike. I, I can't turn on the critical
01:01:27
part because I like it and it makes sense to me.
01:01:31
And it's not even about like trying to figure things out or
01:01:35
or or explanations. It's for me, it's like
01:01:39
expectation, like you go in with a certain expectation and and.
01:01:45
Even when we try not to even. When you try not and you go into
01:01:48
all these Marvel properties, all these MCU properties, I go in
01:01:52
every time with a high expectation.
01:01:55
And I don't know if that's the problem because it's been a
01:02:02
while since the expectations were met.
01:02:04
Right. And you know, and we just keep,
01:02:07
we just keep getting beat down by this.
01:02:10
And no matter how beautiful something like this, no matter
01:02:15
how pretty it is, it's still got to have some substance.
01:02:19
You know, like it's like having the, it's like someone put a
01:02:21
cake in front of you with this gorgeous icing and gorgeous
01:02:24
decoration. And the icing tastes so great
01:02:27
that you cut into it and there's nothing inside.
01:02:30
Like what was the point of bringing me the cake?
01:02:32
Right. Our union is icing, and too much
01:02:37
icing makes you sick, and that's kind of what this show was.
01:02:42
Wow. OK, well on that note, that'll
01:02:45
be for our show. You can find us online at
01:02:49
www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on all
01:02:54
the social media at Phantom Hybrid.
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01:03:04
Thanks for listening. We hope you join the
01:03:06
conversation next time.