#marvel #marvelcinematicuniverse #MCU #thunderbolts #newavengers Three Super Soldiers. A former Black Widow. A Taskmaster. A Ghost. And a regular guy named Bob. All with traumatic backgrounds. Not what you'd think about for a superhero team up, right? When a forgotten experiment falls into the wrong hands, it will take some unusual teamwork (and coming to terms with their pasts) to save the day. ..and Bob.
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What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode
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of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I am here
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with Anthony, Michelle and Casey and we are discussing Marvel's
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Thunderbolts. Yes.
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The New Avengers. Y'all not supposed to say that
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until the end of the show 'cause that's when the reveal came.
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Y'all are wrong. No, I well, no, I mean, it's on
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posters now. Yeah, it's on posters reveal
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before I even went to the movie, so.
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I noticed that because I think I went to go see it again.
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No, actually I think I did go see it a third time.
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I went to go see it again and I was like, wait, they already
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changed it in the movie theaters.
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I was like, oh, OK, he's gonna get spoiled.
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'Cause you know, no, I got spoiled because I saw a, a, a, a
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promo and I, you know, of course it was staying on Facebook, but
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it popped up. Sebastian Stan walking to a bus
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stop or something, changing the poster.
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Yeah, yeah. That's how I that's how I found
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out that they were pushing forward with the new marketing
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campaign and I was like, it hasn't even been a week.
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Nope it hasn't and y'all are already doing this though.
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Well, it really should be New Avengers with the Z.
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Ain't nobody paying attention to Alexa, okay?
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Nobody's paying. They couldn't.
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Get the copyright so yeah, so. Are they the new Avengers?
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You know what, we will talk about it when we get to that
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part of the show. We don't start from the
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beginning. First thing I want to say is if
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anybody has been listening to Anthony and I cover The Wheel of
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Time and Last of Us, we mentioned that Mike has been
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absent on the podcast for a few weeks because he had surgery.
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He is still recovering from surgery which is why he is not
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on this show because y'all know Mike would have had something to
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say about this Taskmaster bullshit at the beginning of.
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That he would have called the bullshit he would have called
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injustice. But you know what?
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I kind of feel that way too. But Michelle was saying before
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we started recording that they kind of did her wrong.
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And I I do feel. Like it's some it's some BS
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though, because I'm we you you you gave we you gave task
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massacre at the end of Black Widow for like 10 seconds.
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So in the posters, even looking at a movie poster now she's all
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in the movie poster. He was in the movie, she not in
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the movie. No, she's on the.
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Wheaties, she's on. The original Wheaties box, she's
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in all of the marketing for the movie, so you know.
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Even in some of the teasers they had her digitally put in scenes
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where she is not. So where she is not?
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So at first I thought when she died, I thought, oh, she going
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to come back and laugh, Me too. And then I kept thinking she
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about to pop up and pop up and then the whole room was aflame.
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And then I realized that's it, she's done.
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She's BBQ. Yeah, I, I thought that was, I
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mean, I guess it was, I, I mean, I don't even know.
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I don't know if they did it because of all of the, you know,
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the fan opinion when Black Widow came out 'cause I don't think
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too many, too many people cared for the character, especially
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those people who were comic book people, because Mike was one of
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those. Mike was like, I mean, y'all,
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y'all see his reaction every time we do anything and mention
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Taskmaster, his whole face changes.
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So I, I wonder if they did it because of the fan reaction or
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if it was just, OK, well, we need to give her a proper
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goodbye, which I still don't think this was that because it's
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I, I guess my problem with it is at the end of Black Widow, like
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you gave us this whole back story of her, we find out that
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she is the little girl that Natasha apparently killed and
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that, you know, she grew up, her father was controlling her,
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making her kill all these people.
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And she thought she was finally free at the end of Black Widow.
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So you thinking, OK, she's going to be able to, I don't know,
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maybe have a new lease on life, whatever, whatever.
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Then when we come into this movie, she's one of these
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assassins working for Valentina of all fucking people.
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But I'm just like, OK, so she apparently didn't get out of
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that light. She was still doing what she was
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doing here. You have all these people that
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have been sent to kill each other.
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They're all fighting whatever, whatever, OK, This is how
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they're going to do the team up. Then she gets shot and I'm like,
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she can heal herself, right? And I was kind of like Michelle
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I was. Waiting and a pop up.
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And waiting and, and even throughout the movie, even after
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the room burnt down, I was like, she's still going to show up
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because, you know, her whole thing is she can mimic other
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people's fighting styles. I was like, OK, maybe they gave
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her, I don't know. I was thinking something.
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But I, I just, I was not expecting her to go out that
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quickly and in that way, I just felt like, wow, what a waste of
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the character. I think maybe couple of things.
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I think maybe they thought that you you already have duplicate
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like triplicate characters with the same powers between Guardian
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Winter. So Dren and John Walker you
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already got triple of that. Then you put her in there with
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John Walker and Yelena duplicate, so it's almost like
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she didn't really have a place on the team.
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But the purpose that she actually serves is a sort of a
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glimpse into what Elena's future could be like.
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She could see her life could end just like that or bleed to the
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head from the apparent reason. So maybe that that because she
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talks about it later. Ulena brings it up kind of
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briefly, but she does talk about it later and I think the.
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One thing that they actually mentioned Taskmaster.
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And the one thing she actually, because I think they could have
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done a little bit more with that for Ulena, but she already had a
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lot on her already. A lot.
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We still didn't need Taskmaster. We didn't.
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We still didn't need her. No, but I think it's probably
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more leaning towards what I want to go say.
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I think they just wanted to correct that problem and just.
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Just kill her and then get a new one later, OK and.
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Then I I guess a. Lot of people like she was the
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only character that of the Thunderbolts that wasn't
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confirmed to be in Avengers Doomsday.
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Well, we should have known then. So she was the only one.
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Oh yeah, you know what? Is that Anthony?
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Is that how she died in the comics?
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She, I don't think is dead. Yeah, yeah, they they completely
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upon that, that character, yeah. That that character is, is not
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even the reflection. They came to the corner.
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Let Mike tell it. Shout out Mike.
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We look, I'm, I'm, I think what we're going to do is once Mike
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comes back, we're going to have to just do a A1 off and just let
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Mike tell his story till he tell how he feels about it.
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And then I'll probably just go back and add it to this later on
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'cause I have to know how he reacts to it when he sees it,
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'cause I don't think he's even had a chance to go see it yet.
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So, but yeah, I, I just feel like on the one hand, they just
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needed to get rid of her character, but it's like, if
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that's all you were going to do, you could have just left her out
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of the movie because her her presence and her death really
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served no purpose except for with her death.
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I think that was when they all started realizing like talking
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to each other. Oh, well, she was my target.
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Oh, you were my target. Oh, that.
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I think that's when they started realizing that they were duped.
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And then like you said, Yelena mentions it later on in the
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later on in the film. She was like, yeah, that could
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be us. That could be any one of us.
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That probably will be any one of us.
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And I think that was kind of the the start of them trying to
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think like, OK, you know, what is this really what I want to
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do? Which we already saw that Yelena
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was having that issue even from the beginning of the movie.
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She was just kind of like, oh, Hon, this is my life.
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I go, I get assignments, I kill people, I go home.
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And I'm. She was just, you could tell she
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was so bored, so bored with her existence.
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And she probably was looking at that as a way out.
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Like she told Val she was like, OK, I'm gonna do this one thing.
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And then I want something that's more public facing.
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I don't want to keep doing this anymore.
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But she should have known that wasn't going to work with Val,
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right? People in her, people with her
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position, people with her skills.
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They don't get the easy out, They don't get this.
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They don't really get to say, OK, you know what, I think I'm
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done. I mean, 'cause even even when
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Natasha did it, she had issues, you know, But she had SHIELD
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there to back her up. But she had Fury there and Clint
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there to back her up. You, Lena did doesn't really
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have anybody like that. So Speaking of which, while
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we're talking about who is in the movie and who is not, I do
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wanna ask y'all's opinion. The movie focuses a lot on
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Yelena and then also with her her relationship with Lexie.
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Was it just me or was anybody else wondering where the hell
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Molina was in all of this? The mom I I'm guessing from
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y'all. I was thinking of Rachel Weisz.
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Right. And that for me.
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I thought, where's Mom? Oh my gosh, I forgot what
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happened to Black Widow. She must have died.
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Oh, I need to go watch that movie again.
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That's what I thought. Let me.
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She's still alive. Oh, and I don't know where.
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She at so she's still alive. What happened at the end of
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Black Widow was of course, you know, they brought the Red Room
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down. Natasha basically kind of
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made-up with Elena, just kind of they, they kind of, I guess, you
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know, let bygones be bygones. And Molina and Alexi took all of
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the Red Room girls plus Taskmaster.
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And they were going to, they were going to take them and try
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to help them acclimate to a new normal.
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So I was OK with that because they didn't grow up with them.
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You know, it's like after everything that happened at the
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beginning of the movie when they were kids, they were kind of
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distant. And we know Molina went to work
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back, I think her name is Molina went back to work for the Red
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Room and all this other stuff. So it's kind of, I didn't quite
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expect her to make an appearance because she was always, she was
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already kind of distant with the girls.
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But. She was more, I think the girls
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were more attached to her than they were to Alexa, Especially
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we, you know, in Black Widow, when we saw them kind of every
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time they were with Alexa, it was kind of like, Oh my God,
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like, stop talking to me. Oh, you're gross.
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This sort of thing. So for them to bring in and kind
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of focus on the relationship with Elena and Red Guardian, I
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thought it was interesting because that does carry over
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from Black Widow and Elena was like, stop, you guys keep saying
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that this was not a real family, but this was the only family I
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knew. So it's carrying that over.
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But I just thought it was very interesting that Mama Molina was
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was not there. Yeah, I just assumed she was.
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She was with all the other girls, still helping them.
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Because Alexi wants to be a hero.
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So of course he's out on that path.
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He he came to America so he could try to be a hero.
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Yeah. That's not what Melina's about.
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I know I don't know. That's a good question.
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But then it also makes you wonder, because.
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They didn't even say anything. Yeah, Taskmaster with her at the
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end. And.
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And like you said, Michelle, the thing that threw me off is not
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necessarily that she wasn't even in the movie.
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They didn't mention her at all. Right.
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That's why I just assumed she was dating.
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Yeah, well, Elena was having the conversation with him and you
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know, she talks about him and about Natasha.
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You know, they don't, they don't ever mention her by name.
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They just always say your sister, your sister.
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That was also very weird 'cause I'm like y'all y'all forgot her
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name but but. This this is a, this is a
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curious question, but it seems like it may be more or less the
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writers and Marvel is just trying to distance itself away
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from the Black Widow movie. So you get rid of Taskmask, you
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don't mention Molina, and you just move on.
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I think there, there was no room in the movie for it and it would
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serve no purpose. You just put it to bed.
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It's like you did Taskmaster. Why even bother you?
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You got what you got out of that movie.
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You got Elena, you got Elena and you got the Red Guardian and
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that's it. I mean, it's, it's an
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interesting thought, you know, thought experiment.
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Why didn't he talk about Melena? What is what is this?
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Whatever. Yeah.
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If you think of. The writers, like we're, we're
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not even concerned about that. That's not even anything we got
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to worry about. But if you really.
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Think about it. Elena's story, right?
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That's well. You think about it at the time,
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hold. On Hold on, she.
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Wouldn't. Mention it, it's it isn't really
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for the purposes of this movie, only Alexi and and Natasha and
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growing up together. That's what's important for her
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for this purposes of this movie, because she didn't have that
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same relationship she had with Melinda that she has with Alexi.
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Right. And Alexi wanted them to be.
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A family. More family.
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So then she was like, why? Didn't you?
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It was still a. Job, right?
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Why didn't you come and check on me so clearly she wouldn't even
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mention her mom? Because it was more of a father
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daughter type conversation. Yeah.
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And then if it OK, if when you put it in that perspective, I
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think Natasha was closer to Molina as well because she was
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older. And also Natasha when they were
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living as the fake family, family.
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Natasha, even at that young age, she knew that it was fake.
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She knew what they were there to do.
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And Yelena didn't because she was too young.
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So yeah, OK, OK. I just that just kind of threw
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me for a little bit because I was like, OK, so we're talking
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about Elena, we're talking about her emotional baggage, her
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emotional trauma. And you would think that Molina
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would fit somewhere in that. But yeah, OK, I get it.
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All right, so where do we want to start with this movie as far
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as like digging Andy? Because this movie, when I say
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as much as we talk about the Marvel films and how these
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characters never have a chance to deal with their trauma, they
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never have a chance to deal with this chaos.
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Good grief. They were like, oh, y'all want
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us to deal with trauma and chaos?
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Here you go. Here we go. 2 1/2 hours of wow.
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I mean, it was. It was.
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Great. It was a great film.
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It was so. Much to unpack.
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I want to say this one thing and watching it even from the Marvel
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beginning and to the end, I enjoyed this movie, but it was
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bittersweet because what happened to these riders?
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Where were they for Captain America?
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Brave New World? They did him wrong.
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OK, that's all I got to say from watching this.
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No, no, no. I want you to elaborate on that
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because I think Anthony and I were texting the night that you
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guys went to see it and he told me that you said that.
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And I was like, yeah, I kind of, I kind of feel around there.
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Yeah, because I want you to a Thunderbolt.
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Thunderbolt has the feeling of, I would say old Marvel, what
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we've been missing. So I'm have I have some issues
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that when we have the one time where we have the transition to
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a new Captain America, which it should have it, it wasn't done
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justice because after I see Thunderbolts, I'm like, where's
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the same energy? It's not the same energy.
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Even though Captain America braiding the world had to have
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rewrites, it is not the same energy.
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So I feel like the energy put into that movie is not the same
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energy put into dump the bolts. You really wanted Thunderbolts
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to succeed because you wanted to go off and do these other
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things. Instead, you just made you a
00:18:02
hoax three movie. So I'm a little I'm a little
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pissed off on that aspect. Yeah.
00:18:08
And it's when we see Fantastic Four later, we'll be like, wow,
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Fantastic Four. So then we then have Brave New
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World that just needs to be shoved under the rug like Black
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Widow. OK, and all the other ones, Ant
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Man, Quantum. We, we can keep naming some of
00:18:28
them. The externals, internals, I
00:18:31
don't care anymore. Externals, internals, the
00:18:33
internals, whatever they are, we don't even talk about those
00:18:36
people anymore. I don't even know where they are
00:18:39
on the planet. Do they even?
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Do they even matter anymore? No, they don't.
00:18:44
OK. I don't know I everything y'all
00:18:50
is saying is right, but for me, I think someone at Marvel, when
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they came with the Thunderbolts, I'm pretty sure Kevin Feige was
00:19:01
like, you know, this sounds interesting, but I don't feel
00:19:04
like I don't feel like their expectations of it was that
00:19:09
high. Like, I think the writers must
00:19:13
have had a little bit more freedom and there wasn't as much
00:19:18
control. Like Captain America is a very
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important icon, a very important property.
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So of course you're going to want to control it a little bit
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more and make sure it's perfect and get it just right.
00:19:30
The hell with Sam and his journey.
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We want it to be a great action movie.
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We could have a Hulk in it. It's going to be great.
00:19:39
Thunderbolts. A bunch of B&C characters that
00:19:42
nobody really cares about, which was what I was worried about in
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the beginning. I remember.
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Want to go see this movie because of these characters.
00:19:51
However, upon close examination you realize that they in in a
00:20:00
few messes up that inadvertently they inadvertently did the same
00:20:07
thing they did with The Avengers.
00:20:09
And I don't think I think they realized it at the last second.
00:20:13
Because you have all these characters who were in their own
00:20:16
stand alone movies and you put them in the movie together to
00:20:21
battle a major threat. It was the same formula.
00:20:24
It's just that I don't think they were thinking about it even
00:20:27
when they realized, oh snap, we have Black Widow with two
00:20:31
characters. Then we have, you know, Ant Man
00:20:35
2 with ghosts. If you got Falcon Winter Soldier
00:20:39
with John, we have the makings of characters that like Iron
00:20:44
Man, Thor, you know, they're all over the place.
00:20:47
And then we bring them together in this one movie.
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It worked. And, and I think, yeah,
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inadvertently they did the same thing without realizing they
00:20:57
were doing the same thing. So what I hear you saying is the
00:21:00
A students was working on Captain America, Brave New
00:21:03
World, and they had all these expectations and they drove
00:21:07
themselves crazy and it didn't come out good.
00:21:09
And then you gave the other movie to the C students and we
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got a good movie here. Yeah, that's that's pretty much
00:21:14
what happened. Because no one cared.
00:21:16
They didn't go to their corner of the studio.
00:21:18
It was like, just give us, just give us something decent, OK?
00:21:22
No pressure because we know it's not going to do well.
00:21:24
Just give us something decent. And they gave us some good stuff
00:21:27
here. Yeah, I need to hire them.
00:21:29
And they leaned all, OK, this is going to go back to something
00:21:32
that we have talked about before with Marvel leaning into the
00:21:37
mental health aspect of these characters.
00:21:39
You know, even going back to Iron Man 2 with his Iron Man
00:21:45
Three with his PTSD and the issues that Tony was having.
00:21:50
And then going in the one division and her dealing with
00:21:52
grief. In fact, when the soldier, you
00:21:55
had Becky dealing with the trauma and the experience of
00:21:59
being brainwashed and trying to deprogram himself.
00:22:02
So you have this history and it's almost like they said,
00:22:07
let's just lean all the way into it and we'll have Elena as our
00:22:12
centerpiece. And I'm actually starting like
00:22:15
her character more than I like Natasha's character.
00:22:19
She seems to have more depth to her than Natasha does.
00:22:22
I'm going. To agree with you on that one.
00:22:24
She she has more death. But they didn't give Natasha
00:22:27
that. No, they didn't.
00:22:29
Yeah, they. They did her wrong because they
00:22:32
didn't get. It's almost like the same
00:22:34
little. Side piece.
00:22:36
Right, right. She was eye candy at 1st and by
00:22:39
the time they gave her a movie they screwed that up too right?
00:22:44
So now they they're trying to fix it now, yeah.
00:22:47
Yeah, And you know, going back to what I brought up earlier as
00:22:52
far as them not referencing certain things, OK, I do
00:22:55
remember an interview that I've seen recently.
00:22:58
I can't remember where it was, but I think what I, what I read
00:23:04
was that Marvel has realized that, OK, you know, this whole
00:23:10
thing with the multiverse and the films and the TV shows and
00:23:13
making everything tie in together, OK, maybe we
00:23:16
overreached a little bit because people are starting to get
00:23:19
fatigued by that. So I think one of the goals for
00:23:23
this movie was, OK, one, bring it back to basics.
00:23:27
And then two, give a a performance or get a performance
00:23:32
in a movie that while it does reference certain things, it
00:23:38
doesn't have to lean heavily on those in order for this movie to
00:23:42
make sense. It's kind of like you said,
00:23:45
Anthony, and we've had this conversation before.
00:23:48
A lot of people who are watching the movies are not necessarily
00:23:50
going to watch the TV shows and vice versa.
00:23:53
And for most people, if you haven't watched the TV shows,
00:23:59
you wouldn't know who John Walker is.
00:24:01
And I think he's the only one. Well, yeah, no, he's the only
00:24:05
one. That.
00:24:06
TV show only as far as the Marvel properties, because even
00:24:11
Valentina, we saw her at the end of Black Widow, she was in
00:24:16
Wakanda Forever, which I completely forgot about, but
00:24:21
yeah, 'cause she used to be married to Ross.
00:24:24
So I, I think if that's the way they they're going to start
00:24:30
going with these films, like with some of the films, like we
00:24:33
realize all of this is, you know, especially towards the
00:24:35
end, you see the Fantastic Four. We know these characters are
00:24:38
going to be in Avengers Doomsday.
00:24:40
So we know that it is going to eventually tie in.
00:24:43
But for right now, they were like, OK, this is the story we
00:24:47
want to tell. It doesn't necessarily have to
00:24:49
deal with outside influences. It doesn't have to deal with any
00:24:53
of the other Avengers or any of the other storylines.
00:24:56
Yeah, we can reference this person, which I think is why
00:24:59
they probably never said Natasha by name.
00:25:02
But yeah, we can reference it. But we don't want that to be the
00:25:05
focus. Let's focus on these characters.
00:25:09
And I think it worked really well because you do have a movie
00:25:13
where you do it, even if you don't really know these
00:25:18
characters towards the beginning.
00:25:19
Because let's be honest, most people are only going to know
00:25:22
Bucky. You know all of the like movie
00:25:25
Die hard people, they're going to know Bucky Ghost like she was
00:25:29
in the movie. But I don't even remember Ant
00:25:31
Man 2. I hate to say it, but I really
00:25:34
don't. I don't remember her storyline.
00:25:36
So I was just kind of like, OK, but the way that they played
00:25:40
these characters and the way they kind of moved the
00:25:41
storylines, like by the end, you do kind of sort of care about
00:25:45
these characters except for John Walker.
00:25:47
But that's just me. But, you know, I, I think they
00:25:51
did a really good job with it. Well, I think you should a
00:25:53
little bit care about John Walker.
00:25:57
I'm going to push back on that. No.
00:26:00
You have to little bit care because in just just a little
00:26:05
side note, he did serve his country.
00:26:09
He was a hero. He he was a hero.
00:26:13
But again, we talked about this in Captain America, the First
00:26:17
Avenger, when the doc was talking about when you give the
00:26:20
medicine to someone, OK, they didn't know how it was going to
00:26:25
react. Some of the things that he
00:26:27
probably need to go to therapy for and deal with was just deep
00:26:31
down inside. Well, no.
00:26:33
But see, that's the thing. They didn't give.
00:26:35
They didn't give John Walker the serum.
00:26:37
John Walker took the serum on his own.
00:26:41
They didn't give it to him. To get the serum from Remember
00:26:44
they. They were fighting and they
00:26:46
were, they were trying to destroy all.
00:26:48
Zima was trying to destroy all of the Super soldier serum and
00:26:51
John Walker came across one of the vials and he took it.
00:26:56
OK, because he wanted to be a strong Captain America again, he
00:26:59
had some issues that he needed to have been dealt with and the
00:27:04
serum just amplify some of those issues he had.
00:27:08
And then he thought he was going to be a good Captain America to,
00:27:11
you know, first of. All he wasn't.
00:27:14
He wasn't necessarily. He was.
00:27:18
He was. Qualified he was.
00:27:19
He was put up as a war hero, but the man was doing Black Ops
00:27:23
stuff, so all the stuff he was doing wasn't necessarily good
00:27:26
things. I didn't say that even even it
00:27:29
was like, well, there was, I think they alluded to some stuff
00:27:32
that he may have done, but. Also, he and Lamar.
00:27:40
Yeah, but, but, but. OK.
00:27:41
So This is why I don't like John Walker, OK?
00:27:44
Because even before Lamar's death, and we're talking, you
00:27:49
know, Falcon. I can't even get her.
00:27:51
We're talking Falcon in The Winter Soldier.
00:27:54
When he and Lamar were having the conversation about the Super
00:27:57
soldier serum, they literally was talking about, well, would
00:27:59
you take the serum? Would you take the serum?
00:28:01
Well, they only enhances, you know, the parts that you blah,
00:28:03
blah, blah. They had this whole
00:28:05
conversation. John Walker, at the point that
00:28:08
he took the Super soldier serum, he knew he wasn't a good person.
00:28:12
He had already killed that, and that will innocent is a relative
00:28:16
term, but he had already killed that flag smash.
00:28:18
Sound like him with that. Well, I mean he.
00:28:22
Said the same thing. Yeah, he was.
00:28:25
He wasn't innocent. But I will say this too, the
00:28:28
rest of the Flag Smashers weren't as radicalized as Carly
00:28:31
was in that show. They weren't.
00:28:33
They weren't down with her doing the killing and the bombing and
00:28:36
stuff. They were like, yo, this is not
00:28:38
what we were supposed to do. So that's a whole other
00:28:40
conversation. It is already killed this flag
00:28:43
Smasher. He already knew he was dealing
00:28:46
with dark thoughts. He already knew that he
00:28:50
shouldn't take the serum. He wanted to take the serum
00:28:55
because, and this is the part of John Walker that I really don't
00:28:59
like and This is why I don't like him.
00:29:01
He is a full out narcissist and he knows he's a narcissist.
00:29:06
For someone like that to take the serum and then have it
00:29:11
amplify all those things about you like you already knew you
00:29:14
were asshole Sam and Bucky told that to you plenty of times
00:29:19
before you took the serum. So now you taking the serum,
00:29:23
that has amplified and we see it all throughout this movie.
00:29:27
His arrogance, his narcissism, his he's.
00:29:31
He's an asshole because he's still dealing with the trauma
00:29:35
and it didn't help the situation where he thought he was going to
00:29:38
actually be the next Captain America, but he did something on
00:29:43
camera that was shady and then he got fired.
00:29:48
He. Wouldn't say that.
00:29:50
He killed. Someone.
00:29:51
He murdered. He murdered someone in cold.
00:29:54
Blood. OK, I'm going to say this again.
00:29:57
They have done some all. Everybody has done some things.
00:30:00
I didn't say what he did was right.
00:30:01
I'm just saying since he got caught on camera, he got fired.
00:30:05
Because if he did that behind closed doors, he wouldn't have
00:30:09
been fired. But speak true about that.
00:30:11
So now he's dealing with losing a job, OK?
00:30:14
He has no job. He has a family to take care of
00:30:17
and everything you see is negative.
00:30:20
All the stuff that Hanukkah was saying is out for the world to
00:30:23
see. That's a lot for anybody to keep
00:30:26
taking over and over and over again.
00:30:29
So and now he's trying to act strong when he has lost
00:30:32
everything. He's lost everything.
00:30:33
He is not ever going to get back with his wife.
00:30:35
He's pretty much probably not going to have a relationship
00:30:38
with his child because she's the type that looks to me like, no,
00:30:42
you're crazy. You, you don't have supervised
00:30:45
business. OK.
00:30:47
So that's a lot. But he is still, there's still a
00:30:51
part of him and you can see just a part of him that wants to do
00:30:56
good and wants to be good because there's many times where
00:30:59
he could have just walked away. That's all I'm saying.
00:31:03
When he was at the beginning and they were talking about what
00:31:07
they should do, and his whole thing was, well, if they're not
00:31:10
this and if they're not that, then we'll just kill him.
00:31:12
And Bob starts laughing. He's like, what's so funny?
00:31:15
He was like, and you were, and you were the Captain America.
00:31:19
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
00:31:21
Like the way that you go? Disagreeing with you?
00:31:24
I am not disagreeing with you, but it's all coming about people
00:31:28
needing help at different times of his life 'cause he's probably
00:31:33
like that as a teenager when he playing football, the
00:31:36
aggression, all of that. I still have some feelings for
00:31:40
him because he has a lot like he literally.
00:31:44
So just about. Killing.
00:31:45
People. On that team, but the I know
00:31:47
that they all do. The only person I really don't
00:31:51
get is Ghost. What's her name?
00:31:56
OK, Ava. So ghost, Ava, all right,
00:31:59
except. She's constantly dying and
00:32:00
that's what she needs. Her So we're going to skip ahead
00:32:03
a little bit. Yeah, come on, get that,
00:32:05
Anthony, you took notes so. The right, so the writers they
00:32:09
called, so Bob or the void, when he started spreading the void,
00:32:17
people were drug into the void or placing the void where they
00:32:21
got to relive their most guilty experience over and over again.
00:32:27
So there were some that were cut and they call them shame rooms.
00:32:32
And Ava's shame room was going to be her second orphanage where
00:32:39
she an orphanage. Yeah, she's an orphanage where
00:32:43
she was all but invisible and she was going to relive the
00:32:47
experience over and over and over again.
00:32:50
OK, so that was Ava's shamer, so.
00:32:53
And that's her trauma. Right.
00:32:54
That was her trauma and this trauma of her always being
00:32:58
overlooked and not being seen. And now it actually literally is
00:33:02
happening. It's manifesting something real,
00:33:05
which is something that she struggles with.
00:33:09
OK. So I got it.
00:33:10
There you go that that was Ava's.
00:33:12
I have others who the best thing is they can back.
00:33:14
To John Walker, everybody you got.
00:33:16
No notes to help me. Well, no.
00:33:19
Well, John Walker's we saw his shame room the after what
00:33:24
happened to him and losing his position as Captain America or
00:33:27
whatever, he went into self destruction spiral and the self
00:33:32
destructions went toward his family apart.
00:33:35
That's why his wife left him, because he because he was being
00:33:39
an asshole, right? And I think he's doing what he's
00:33:43
doing because I think on some level he feels that if he can
00:33:47
prove his worth, if he can show the world that he is a hero,
00:33:52
then maybe she'll come back Like it was all worth it for him to
00:33:56
do everything that he has done. And I don't think he understand
00:34:00
that that's not how that works. He's he's not, he's not doing
00:34:04
the he's not, he's not understanding that his issues is
00:34:08
why she left, not that he wasn't a good enough hero or that he
00:34:13
failed as a hero. They at the problem that I have
00:34:18
with John Walker and going going to what you're saying about his
00:34:22
wife, I don't think she left him because of his issues, because
00:34:26
he had the issues even in Captain Falcon in The Winter
00:34:29
Soldier. That's not who she fell in love
00:34:33
with. She cared about him as a person
00:34:35
but he was being an ass and this has nothing.
00:34:41
To the the writers, the writers said that self destruction, it's
00:34:46
self destruction went toward his family applied.
00:34:48
Because again, I'm going to say this, yes, he didn't do good
00:34:53
things. We all can say we haven't done
00:34:56
great things. He didn't do good things.
00:34:57
Yes, he killed someone. However, when you are put in
00:35:02
that, in that spotlight where all of the mistakes you have
00:35:07
made is replayed over and over again and no one can see
00:35:11
anything that you have ever done good and he's reliving it over
00:35:16
and over again. He is being self-destructive.
00:35:19
He, he, he's putting up walls. He's acting like an ass.
00:35:22
He's going to act like an ass. But the.
00:35:24
Problem. Is all.
00:35:25
This stuff that he did. It's like you can't.
00:35:29
It's different. When I make a mistake, you find
00:35:31
out, Hunter Cole, I ask for your forgiveness.
00:35:35
I act like AI act like a ass but.
00:35:37
Oh, wait. The world.
00:35:39
That's the world. But see, that's the problem,
00:35:41
because the whole issue with John Walker, and let's talk
00:35:44
about all the thunderbolts, all the thumb Thunderbolts are
00:35:47
killers. They're contract killers.
00:35:49
They've done bad things. Whatever.
00:35:51
John Walker is the only one out of that group who does not take
00:35:56
responsibility for the things that he's done.
00:35:59
It's always someone else's fault and he's always trying to make
00:36:04
himself look better than he actually is and make other
00:36:08
people look small, and that's the problem that I have, because
00:36:12
he has. Issues and those issues have
00:36:15
been no, but there's different, but there's different issues.
00:36:19
And if everyone has issues that he has the issue too, we got to
00:36:23
say that he has the issue. He needs help and that help can
00:36:27
change him. But I'm telling you the reason
00:36:28
why that he is just self sabotaging.
00:36:31
I'm surprised he is not a drug addict or complete alcoholic at
00:36:35
this point that he's still walking around sober.
00:36:40
I'm like completely shocked. Like completely shocked.
00:36:45
There's some things that I don't know if they written down, just
00:36:47
like Ava, that there's some things that drove the person he
00:36:51
is as a kid and we will need to see where that started from.
00:36:56
I, I understand what Hanukkah was saying because I, I do
00:37:00
believe he is an asshole, right? Like he has those that
00:37:04
personality. It's just that it was never
00:37:07
anything that hindered his success because you can be in
00:37:12
the military and be an asshole and it can get you pretty far
00:37:16
right? It's just that after everything
00:37:20
was taken away from him and he was stuck with reliving, like
00:37:25
you say, reliving that that bad thing over and over and over and
00:37:32
over again, it wasn't working for him to be an asshole
00:37:36
anymore, right? He probably wasn't an asshole to
00:37:39
his wife. He may have been a little bit,
00:37:42
you know, I'm talking about before all this stuff happened,
00:37:46
but after, right? But afterwards, when he's
00:37:50
sitting there, sitting in his trauma, sitting in all this
00:37:55
stuff that happened to him and he had no way to deal with it or
00:37:58
try to cope with it, and there's no one around to help him deal
00:38:02
with it or cope with it, he becomes self-destructive,
00:38:05
Destructive. You're right, he should become
00:38:07
an addict. We don't know.
00:38:08
He couldn't have been an alcoholic because I think he was
00:38:10
sitting there drinking when he was reading all the articles
00:38:13
about him. You know people being extreme
00:38:15
assholes is just a cover up for them, never have to feel
00:38:19
anything. Not all the not all the time.
00:38:23
Sometimes people are assholes just because they're assholes.
00:38:26
Correct, but I'm just saying we don't go with that since all
00:38:28
these people have issues. Even in the faculty when a
00:38:31
soldier, he was being an asshole to him and it was fine because
00:38:35
he was just like oh God, whatever and move on.
00:38:37
But he was asshole. Also, he went to soldiers for a
00:38:39
reason. Right.
00:38:40
But also, once he got to the serum and he magnified and
00:38:44
amplified those parts of his personality, people around him
00:38:48
are not going to be able to deal with it constantly.
00:38:50
Yeah, I agree to. That and and to that magnitude.
00:38:54
Tonico's right. Yeah.
00:38:55
He was probably awful to his wife.
00:38:58
Like, she's like, watch the baby.
00:39:00
You're supposed to be watching. I am watching the baby.
00:39:02
No, you're not. You're scrolling your phone.
00:39:03
And I totally agree with what y'all saying.
00:39:06
I mean like y'all are like really just helping my cause
00:39:09
here of what I'm saying. No, we're not.
00:39:12
Because the whole. The whole.
00:39:13
Point of this started because I said I hated John Walker and
00:39:17
you're trying to say. There's a little and all I said
00:39:18
was there was a little part. Yeah, there's a part of him that
00:39:21
wants. He, he, it's just a part to be
00:39:23
good part. That is ridiculous.
00:39:25
That's all I was saying. He wants to be good.
00:39:27
Self esteem issues and he still does.
00:39:30
If y'all don't understand that part, he does.
00:39:34
He didn't have the same issues when we first met his character
00:39:37
and I didn't like. Him being oh, he did, then
00:39:40
that's another reason why he was acting like that.
00:39:41
That's another reason why you make other people small because
00:39:43
you try to make yourself feel better and make you feel bigger.
00:39:46
But. That's why he keeps bringing
00:39:48
that we want to see a championship.
00:39:49
Back-to-back, you're like 40 now, there's no need to mention
00:39:54
up a a championship. See when you see people mention
00:39:57
up shit that they did when they were younger.
00:39:59
Oh, I won the Chilean competition.
00:40:02
Hey, like we're 55 now, so how does that relate?
00:40:08
OK, We all did stuff when we were teenager.
00:40:12
OK, so how do you? Feel about John definitely
00:40:17
thought he was a Dick like but I I feel what Michelle saying he
00:40:24
he everybody in this whole picture got got issues.
00:40:29
He is probably more so than anybody else was like Anthony
00:40:32
said taking that serum made him more of who he was already.
00:40:42
But either way he got shit he got to deal with just like
00:40:46
everybody else does. I don't hate him though.
00:40:51
I guess I do. I'll be alone and then I don't
00:40:53
care. I mean, I don't hate him.
00:40:57
Yeah, I can't stand this character.
00:40:58
I can't. Oh.
00:41:00
I can name. The character and Nick will tell
00:41:02
you Nick, Nick was with me both times I went to go see.
00:41:05
We went to we went to a couple of pre screenings and every time
00:41:09
John Walker was on the screen, I had a visceral reaction.
00:41:13
Even when I wasn't planning to have one, I just did.
00:41:17
I was just like just. I can't wait till he saves a
00:41:20
baby later and how to be like OK that's OK that's good.
00:41:26
No, because that's what he's supposed to do.
00:41:28
If he's supposed to be a hero. You want to talk to people about
00:41:31
how you were the Captain America.
00:41:32
You were. You were the official.
00:41:34
Cap and when he admits that he did wrong, you'll be OK, but
00:41:37
you'll give a little. I will give him a little bit of
00:41:40
clothing. Yeah.
00:41:41
Like what? What?
00:41:42
What does he need to do? Yeah, I mean, yes, if he just
00:41:45
said because like I said, with all these other characters,
00:41:49
there is a, there is a a moment, whether it was in this movie or
00:41:55
even when we've seen them before, where they have
00:41:57
acknowledged the stuff that they have done wrong.
00:41:59
And I mean, this whole movie, Yelena was all about that.
00:42:03
And we know Bucky's back, you know, Bucky's back story.
00:42:06
Bucky has always felt guilt about that.
00:42:09
And Bucky was being controlled. He was mind controlled and, you
00:42:16
know, he still feels guilt for everything that he did even
00:42:19
though there was nothing he could do about it.
00:42:22
So yes, if John Walker comes off his high horse just a little bit
00:42:27
and at least says, OK, you know what, maybe I'm not such a great
00:42:31
guy, blah, blah blah, then maybe I can start looking at his
00:42:35
character like, oh, he might be able to redeem himself.
00:42:39
Them were great. All of the IT it if if that's
00:42:43
your argument that he's not a great person.
00:42:47
They all explained that they weren't great people.
00:42:49
But that's the thing, they are, they all admit it.
00:42:52
He does not. That's just because I.
00:42:56
Don't say I'm not a good person, I said.
00:43:00
Just because he doesn't say I'm not a good person.
00:43:03
It's not just because he doesn't say it, but it's, it's the whole
00:43:08
attitude and the gravitas he has behind it.
00:43:11
Like he constantly blames other people for the things that he's
00:43:15
done. You know, he doesn't take
00:43:18
responsibility for his actions. And then when other people try
00:43:21
to point that out to him, be like, look, you don't have to be
00:43:24
an asshole all the time. He literally leans into it more
00:43:29
by saying stuff like what Michelle said, oh, yeah, you
00:43:31
know, I did this, I did that. I was Captain America.
00:43:34
I did this. And oh, yeah, my high school
00:43:36
football team won three state championships back-to-back to
00:43:39
back. Nobody gives a fuck about that
00:43:41
because guess what? All they remember is that you
00:43:44
killed a guy on camera and felt no remorse, no remorse for it.
00:43:51
He has not once said anything about being sorry that he did
00:43:56
that. He even talked, he even talks to
00:44:00
to them in this movie and says that that guy wasn't innocent
00:44:03
and they're like, he wasn't the one that you were after.
00:44:07
I'm, I'm going to kind of push back a little bit on that
00:44:09
Hanukkah because one thing that this movie, the the overarching
00:44:15
like themes and motifs of this movie is we would have to.
00:44:20
I hate doing this, giving the writers more creative than it
00:44:24
deserves. But but the I, I have two things
00:44:30
I want to say. So the first thing is, I think
00:44:33
it's, it might be a little bit harsh of us to think that he
00:44:37
doesn't feel guilt about it because all of these characters
00:44:42
feel a certain amount of guilt about the things they've done,
00:44:46
right? And he's just trying to hide it
00:44:50
so much. Because what all these
00:44:53
characters are suffering for, this is the existentialist to
00:44:56
me, is they've all sort of lost bases of purpose.
00:44:59
They're all trying to find their new purpose of life.
00:45:03
They're all trying to find purpose and meaning in what they
00:45:06
do and why they're here. That's how the movie starts.
00:45:10
The movie starts with Yelena really having an existential
00:45:14
crisis. Like, what is what is my
00:45:17
purpose? Why am I doing this?
00:45:19
She's doing something she's good at because she is going through
00:45:22
the motions. She's almost bored taking out
00:45:25
all those guys, but at the same time, she doesn't have much of A
00:45:31
purpose. Alexi, he is in America trying
00:45:35
to find his purpose. He knows what he wants to do.
00:45:38
He doesn't know how to get there.
00:45:40
He's still looking. Ava, we don't get into her story
00:45:45
that much, but she's sort of in the They're all in the same
00:45:48
place. That's what that's what why do I
00:45:51
keep want to call it Valerie? I keep want to call it a Veep
00:45:55
because I read an article where someone said that that was the
00:45:58
vice president and Veep, that was her character and it was
00:46:03
just magnified. She was basically playing the
00:46:05
same character, just amplified. It literally is the same
00:46:09
character. She played off of that because
00:46:13
she was giving them purpose, she was giving them something to do.
00:46:18
So she was able to to take advantage of that with
00:46:23
Taskmaster and Elena and John, because they don't.
00:46:28
And so I'm not going to be as harsh on John as probably most
00:46:32
people, because I think he's just hiding it.
00:46:35
He's hiding the guilt. He's trying to cover it up
00:46:37
because he doesn't really know the the one time he thought he
00:46:41
had purpose, it was taken away from him.
00:46:44
And everything he's doing is trying to get back to that.
00:46:47
It's like chasing that high. So of course he's not going to
00:46:51
admit that what happened was something that was wrong,
00:46:55
because that is a bar. There's a barrier to him getting
00:47:00
to what his purpose is. He still wants to be a hero.
00:47:04
He does. And Alexi, he was telling Elena
00:47:09
later, That's what Natasha found.
00:47:11
She found her purpose in doing good and being a hero.
00:47:15
That's what you need to do, right?
00:47:17
And that was the realization that she had later, you know
00:47:21
what I'm saying? So the all these characters are
00:47:23
trying to find their purpose. And then here comes the group
00:47:26
therapy leader, Becky, who has gone through therapy, who has
00:47:31
found his purpose. Yeah, and a congressman.
00:47:34
Right. And he's trying to, he's a model
00:47:37
to them. He's trying to show them that
00:47:40
you can, you can find a purpose in life by doing good, just by
00:47:44
doing the right thing. I have more notes on that, by
00:47:48
the way, but we'll, we'll wait. No, by all means.
00:47:54
No, no, we're good. We're good.
00:47:57
Yeah. I want to hear from Casey
00:47:59
because I like it feel. About about to call her V2.
00:48:02
How you feel about What's her name DE?
00:48:04
Fontaine, Valentina Valentina Allegra de Fontaine de Fontaine
00:48:12
de Fontaine. Make sure you get it right.
00:48:15
I'm surprised she. Didn't add.
00:48:17
I'm surprised she didn't add the Countess to the to the her name
00:48:21
in this one. We, we saw her shame room, which
00:48:24
is the guilt that she feels for causing her father's death, you
00:48:28
know, and, and that's something that she has been trying to do
00:48:32
with all her life. Yeah, Beside, note how you feel
00:48:34
about her Hanukkah. Can she be redeemed?
00:48:39
Do not like her, she really can't.
00:48:41
I do not like her because she OK.
00:48:44
She's the best in manipulator. Yes, she really is.
00:48:47
And really, the crazy thing is for her to have that memory as
00:48:52
her shame room, to know that even as a kid, something that
00:48:57
she did caused harm to someone that she loved.
00:48:59
Because, you know, what was it? Her dad had told her not to tell
00:49:04
anyone where they lived. And she said she saw a guy in
00:49:07
the village and he said he was a friend and he wanted to come by
00:49:10
and see him. Which, you know, she, she's
00:49:14
about our age going back. If you thinking back in those
00:49:18
times, it was very, you know, we always told people don't talk to
00:49:21
strangers, don't give them any information about you, blah,
00:49:24
blah, blah. So for her to have that kind of
00:49:28
memory and that kind of guilt over what she did to become who
00:49:32
she has become, I'm just, I, I just.
00:49:39
Yeah. And.
00:49:39
For Ross to be married to her like.
00:49:41
I am so confused. Well, I think she was I, I, I
00:49:45
think she probably, I don't, I don't want to say she tricked
00:49:50
him, but I just feel like. She probably was nasty.
00:49:52
I mean, she was hiding some things.
00:49:54
Yeah, You could tell that just, you know, how she acts.
00:49:56
She didn't. Yes.
00:49:57
He would never show her. But Sophie is.
00:50:00
Yeah. But the realization when she did
00:50:02
see her, her trauma and when she was with Bob, and then how it
00:50:08
looked like, oh, crap, that's deep.
00:50:10
And then turned around like, oh, I can use that.
00:50:13
That whole facial expression. I was like, oh, you are
00:50:16
dangerous because you see. And instead of like, oh, I'm
00:50:21
kind of scared. You're like, oh, can you use
00:50:24
this? I think she was scared at first
00:50:27
when she was, you can see it like you can first see like, oh,
00:50:31
like that's deep feelings, my emotion.
00:50:33
And oh, he can do that. Oh, I have some ideas.
00:50:38
Like you saw that. You saw it move through her
00:50:41
face. And I was like, oh.
00:50:43
Not good. Yeah.
00:50:45
And I mean, even just just her motivations for everything that
00:50:49
she was doing, you know, that whole century project that she
00:50:52
was doing, she was one experimenting on people who
00:50:57
technically nobody would miss if the if they went missing, you
00:51:01
know, but. And Bob was one of those quote
00:51:04
UN quote perfect subjects because he was a drug addict.
00:51:07
He, you know, he was kind of in and out.
00:51:09
He was he was in Thailand of all places, just trying to do
00:51:14
whatever. Chase the next.
00:51:16
High chasing the next high or trying to get cleaned up because
00:51:19
he has, as he said, he has these periods of highs and he has
00:51:23
these periods of lows. So there were times when he
00:51:26
tried to get better and then, you know, slip back into his old
00:51:30
ways. But for her to be the type of
00:51:34
person to start that kind of project, and then when she sees
00:51:38
it's not going the way it's supposed to, you just dispose of
00:51:42
the people. Master's counseling student here
00:51:46
in today thing yes, so you have this dude right?
00:51:49
Did they not do any screening like any psychological screening
00:51:54
because one clearly he has bipolar disorder.
00:51:59
He also they knew about his childhood abuse and they should
00:52:05
have maybe noticed that he might have.
00:52:09
Nah, they probably wouldn't have thought he had dissociation of
00:52:11
identity disorder. They didn't care because they
00:52:14
were experiencing and they wanted to be able to kill him if
00:52:17
they needed to. I mean, even Mel, when she had,
00:52:20
when she had his file, she was like, Val, have you like looked
00:52:24
at his file? I don't think we need to be.
00:52:27
You know, right, he think that wasn't the only person they were
00:52:31
going to do that with. When they when they perfected
00:52:36
what they were doing, then they was going to find someone and do
00:52:40
all the tests on to make sure that he will be the right
00:52:43
superhero. Yes.
00:52:45
However, in the meantime. Subjects.
00:52:48
In the meantime, you're giving it to the test subjects.
00:52:52
What if by chance one of those test subjects it actually works
00:52:56
on right they? Didn't.
00:52:59
Think about that. OK.
00:53:00
So yeah, so this was. The phrase hold on with the
00:53:02
associate of identity disorder. He has the void, which is the
00:53:06
depression that he goes into if you have the century personality
00:53:12
because that's what he always wanted to feel invincible.
00:53:15
So he literally was invincible where no one could harm him.
00:53:20
Again, it was test subjects, so you didn't expect it to work
00:53:24
just a little bit. And you admit that it.
00:53:27
Yeah, so you know. But the crazy thing is I didn't
00:53:32
catch this the first time I watched it.
00:53:34
It was when I went back the second time.
00:53:37
So in the beginning, when Yelena is going to the lab to destroy
00:53:42
the lab, it didn't. I didn't.
00:53:45
It didn't dawn on me that that was the same lab because I
00:53:47
completely missed the shadows of the two figures in the
00:53:50
background. For Michelle say the same thing.
00:53:52
Yeah, Michelle, say I. Didn't notice it.
00:53:54
So going back and watching it the second time, I'm like, there
00:53:59
is a little physical evidence right here on your wall that
00:54:04
something about this experiment you were doing ain't.
00:54:08
Right, and that's what the doctor was trying to say.
00:54:11
Yes, the doctor was trying to say like she doesn't know what
00:54:16
this will do and this person is, you know, this person is
00:54:20
dangerous and it doesn't work the way she wants it to.
00:54:23
Of course, Elena is not caring about any of this because that's
00:54:26
not part of her mission. She was she's being paid to
00:54:29
destroy the lab. That's all she's going to do.
00:54:32
And if wasn't until she remembered it later when they
00:54:36
were in the shame room, she was like, wait, I've been here.
00:54:39
When I looked around and I saw it on the background, I was
00:54:41
like, oh, yeah, they should have never done this with him.
00:54:45
Like the minute something like that happened, I don't know who
00:54:51
that has working for her. I don't know why they didn't
00:54:54
call her and say, hey, we might have a problem with the
00:54:58
experiment. But apparently she didn't know.
00:55:01
Wait, but didn't didn't the doctor say I?
00:55:05
Don't think so. Right.
00:55:06
That's why I was, yeah. Didn't the doctor, didn't the
00:55:09
doctor say he tried to tell her he tried to contact her?
00:55:14
Didn't he say that? He said he tried to contact her.
00:55:16
But yeah, Val's whole persona is she's too busy to do this.
00:55:23
She's too busy to do that. She has Minion.
00:55:26
I mean, that's how she treated Mel the whole the whole movie.
00:55:29
Like, that's my minion. That's the person who's going to
00:55:31
do stuff. So the fact that she didn't even
00:55:35
pay attention to what might have happened there.
00:55:38
Like something would tell me, OK, if I was a person who was
00:55:42
funding a super secret illegal project and that person over
00:55:46
that project was trying to get in touch with me, something
00:55:49
would tell me to pick up the God damn phone.
00:55:52
But. That is not me.
00:55:55
When she put it down, she shut it down.
00:55:57
Yeah, she also one of them people who also don't take
00:55:59
accountability. No, the whole time they tried to
00:56:02
impeach her. She's like, but what did that
00:56:03
give me? Wrong, which is another reason
00:56:05
why I don't like her character. Yeah, and if she doesn't want to
00:56:08
look, she don't want to know 'cause if she can claim, I don't
00:56:11
know what you're talking about. Right, right.
00:56:14
I said clean up. I meant like get some bleach and
00:56:17
Clorox and wipe down the studio. I didn't say kill people.
00:56:24
Plausible. Plausible deniability, but I
00:56:28
mean, the fact that you are one, being impeached because of all
00:56:34
of this stuff and then you're sitting there trying to get rid
00:56:37
of stuff like I don't know what her character is doing.
00:56:40
And this is the first time that we've actually like really,
00:56:43
really seen her character fleshed out because even in
00:56:46
Wakanda Forever, we get that little bit of background on her,
00:56:50
but I don't feel like we were seeing her full character, you
00:56:55
know, the the way that she was meant to be seen.
00:56:57
So I feel like this is the first time we've seen a really, really
00:56:59
fleshed out. But it's like, if you are this
00:57:03
person who is so smart, you're over the CIA, your CIA director,
00:57:07
you know what it's like when people are being impeached, you
00:57:11
know what folks are going to look for.
00:57:13
You should not have been in the middle of your impeachment
00:57:16
hearing just now getting rid of evidence.
00:57:19
Not saying that I'm trying to help her out, but I'm just, I'm
00:57:22
just saying this is a person who really did feel like she was
00:57:26
untouchable, I feel like. But yeah, to go So to short
00:57:32
answer to your question, Michelle, no, I don't.
00:57:34
Like her? I don't.
00:57:35
Do you like her less than John? No.
00:57:39
What's the level here? And can she redeem herself in
00:57:43
her eyes? No.
00:57:48
No, because you in the end she she introduced them to the world
00:57:52
like they wanted. Oh, I was when when I say when,
00:57:56
when when Yelena walked up to her.
00:57:59
I was really hoping Yelena was going to punch her in the face
00:58:02
like Alexi wanted because I was like this bitch.
00:58:06
The what I. Did though, so you had to do
00:58:08
punch her in the face? I mean just the whole we.
00:58:11
Own you? Yeah.
00:58:12
Yeah, no, that's not satisfying enough for me.
00:58:16
It's not you. Need the actual physical touch
00:58:21
she. Needs to be punched in the
00:58:22
mouth. What is he saying?
00:58:25
She need it. She need a weapon.
00:58:27
Yeah, she. Need a weapon?
00:58:29
She need a weapon. But as far as her and John
00:58:34
Walker, so I will say this, a lot of my disdain for John
00:58:39
Walker also comes from the fact of the way that you treated Sam
00:58:44
and Bucky and Falcon and The Winter Soldier.
00:58:47
Like you immediately came in like, Oh yeah, I'm Captain
00:58:50
America. You guys are going to come help
00:58:52
me like treating them like they were the sidekicks.
00:58:55
And I'm like. They weren't.
00:58:56
He was Captain America. No, so he wrong.
00:59:00
So he no, no no. So he wrong for taking his job
00:59:04
seriously? This is the this is the same
00:59:09
thing I said when we were discussing Falcon in The Winter
00:59:11
Soldier. I'm saying it.
00:59:13
I said it then, I said it now. You did not earn the mantle of
00:59:16
Captain America, so. He didn't earn it, but.
00:59:22
Southie did not want it, so somebody had to do it.
00:59:25
No, they didn't know. No, No, no, no, no, no.
00:59:28
Substitute. It was a substitute the.
00:59:31
Government giving John Walker the shield The government giving
00:59:37
John Walker the shield, the shield without him having earned
00:59:40
it, is just like our current president giving out all these
00:59:44
high rings. Hold on, hold on, hold on.
00:59:47
I'm just saying. I'm just saying what what is
00:59:50
your definition of earning it? Because Steve didn't necessarily
00:59:55
earn the mantle either. But when Steve got it, it wasn't
01:00:00
supposed to be an actual superhero, he was supposed to
01:00:03
just be a face. He ended up earning it when he
01:00:07
went to go save Bucky and those other hundred soldiers from a
01:00:11
situation that everyone was telling him to let go because it
01:00:15
was impossible. To do.
01:00:16
No, no, no. He he was an experiment.
01:00:19
He was supposed to be the first of many, but the doctor got
01:00:23
killed and he had the, the, the, the serum ingredients in his
01:00:28
head, so they didn't know what to do with him.
01:00:31
He was the only one they had. They didn't want to waste him.
01:00:34
They didn't want him to accidentally get killed until
01:00:37
they can figure out how to make the serum again.
01:00:39
So they put him off to the side and had him, you know, drum up
01:00:43
money or whatever. But initially he didn't really
01:00:46
earn anything. He actually did.
01:00:49
No, no, not really. Well then.
01:00:52
OK, well then. Wait, hold on.
01:00:55
Hold on. So what did John Walker do
01:00:57
before he was made Captain America?
01:01:00
He was a soldier who had a whole bunch of successful missions,
01:01:05
saved a lot of people, fought in a couple of wars, earn medals.
01:01:10
So how did he not earn it? He was a substitute.
01:01:15
How did you not earn it though? It wasn't.
01:01:19
It wasn't, trust me. It was like the DoD didn't go
01:01:23
through and try to find the person that would best fit the
01:01:26
role. They literally went through a
01:01:29
whole bunch of soldiers, tried to find someone who will fit the
01:01:31
row, and this is the guy that came up.
01:01:33
With and This is why this is all Sam's fault, because he should
01:01:36
have took the shield. But that's a whole nother.
01:01:39
Friend, that's a whole other. Story Game.
01:01:41
Because they weren't going to make him Captain America.
01:01:44
Unless. He didn't have to give up the
01:01:46
shield, it could just been in his house.
01:01:48
He gave it up. But that's how we're talking
01:01:51
about. Oh, I'm just saying.
01:01:54
So they had to find a replacement and that's the
01:01:57
replacement he's he's a good looking dude to put on a poster.
01:02:01
He has these medals. They didn't do they testing
01:02:03
either. They just found the the a super.
01:02:07
They found a war hero who looks good blonde hairs very similar
01:02:11
to Steve. He can take some great pictures.
01:02:14
He got this beautiful wife. They may have kids in the
01:02:17
future. This looks great.
01:02:18
This looks great. It's going to work out great.
01:02:21
It didn't work out great, but. He had the credentials.
01:02:25
I mean, he did, to be honest with you, but.
01:02:27
The credentials are not did too. But the problem is the
01:02:32
credentials are not the only thing that that makes that
01:02:37
shield, that makes that person he, he, he's not a Steve Rogers.
01:02:42
He doesn't. Have No one is going to be Steve
01:02:45
Rogers because no one's going to be able to pick up the hammer
01:02:49
but Steve Rogers and Thor. You got to think about it.
01:02:53
No one else is worthy. So they should have just left.
01:02:57
Them honestly, no one is ever going to replace.
01:03:01
No one ever is going to replace Steve, not even Sam.
01:03:04
Which is why they should have left that shield in the
01:03:07
Smithsonian where Sam had. That no, Sam just left it in his
01:03:10
garage. That's all I'm saying.
01:03:12
Well, that too, but that's, yeah, that's a whole other.
01:03:15
And say, I don't know what shield you talking about she I'm
01:03:18
not going to do it. No one should do.
01:03:22
Right. Because if nothing else, when
01:03:24
Steve gave it to Sam, he gave it to him.
01:03:27
He didn't say, hey, take this and go give it to somebody
01:03:29
because I don't think you can do the job.
01:03:32
He wouldn't think that she was able to do the job.
01:03:34
Right and imagine how Steve is feeling right now on the couch,
01:03:38
watching television and all of. This He's on the moon, not on
01:03:41
the couch. He is on the moon.
01:03:46
OK, let's move on the couch. Let's.
01:03:47
Get out of the way. He's disappointed.
01:03:50
Let's get out of the ways. But he takes his job serious.
01:03:54
That's what we were saying, yes. Yes, I agree with Casey.
01:03:59
He takes his job seriously. Hardiko is punishing a man
01:04:02
because he took his job seriously.
01:04:04
We came onto the scene. And he had issues.
01:04:06
He was the legitimate Captain America, and so, yes, they were
01:04:10
his psychics and he was placed by the government of this
01:04:14
country in charge of the mission they.
01:04:17
Were and. Those two.
01:04:18
Guys, they were in the those guys contractors, they didn't
01:04:21
one of the not working with him. One of those guys is fugitive.
01:04:27
Not a fugitive but is a murderer slash former spot for the
01:04:32
Russians and the other guy. Who?
01:04:35
Then pays his taxes. OK, and you know what side note,
01:04:40
Pause. And then we give, we give them.
01:04:45
We give Captain America a bad name.
01:04:47
But then we forget his best friend died that time to worse
01:04:54
too. Oh, you talk about John's best
01:04:58
friend. Yeah, so OK, Hanukkah something,
01:05:02
a couple of strings. His friend passed away in front
01:05:07
of him. His friend was murdered in
01:05:08
front. Of him, right?
01:05:09
So he turned. That's why.
01:05:10
So did Bucky, as Steve thought for 90 years.
01:05:16
So no. I just totally forgot about
01:05:20
that. Yeah.
01:05:21
That didn't help his situation though.
01:05:22
It didn't help his situation though.
01:05:24
No, but because his friend could have talked some sensei to him
01:05:28
too. But that's OK.
01:05:31
And and that's I think because Lamar even saw that John was
01:05:34
kind of going off the rails. Yeah, so but OK, we're going to
01:05:38
get off John Walker. I just my my position is very
01:05:42
clear. If you want more details, go
01:05:45
back and listen to our Falcon, which is soldier covered.
01:05:48
Listen. I I truly enjoy Bob.
01:05:52
I did. He.
01:05:56
He was one of those characters that even though he was in his
01:06:01
mind, so messed up, I don't know, something about him just
01:06:06
felt really fresh compared to, you know, other characters that
01:06:09
we've been introduced to. Because at first I thought he
01:06:12
was just going to be like Comic Relief.
01:06:14
Because I, I didn't know what the Thunderbolts was about.
01:06:17
I didn't know what this movie was dealing with going into it,
01:06:20
except for the parts about Elena.
01:06:23
Then we get Bob's whole back story about him being an addict
01:06:27
to him. You know, we, we see in his
01:06:29
shame room, you know, his father used to abuse his his mother and
01:06:33
then they both used to abuse him.
01:06:35
And it's just like the way that his character came off.
01:06:41
And I have a feel it's a lot of this probably has to do with
01:06:45
Lewis Pullman's portrayal of it because this is the character
01:06:51
that Steven Young was supposed to play before the pandemic.
01:06:54
This is the character that he was cast as.
01:06:57
And then he had to pull out because of the writers strike.
01:07:01
And then I think he had a scheduling conflict with another
01:07:03
movie that he was supposed to be doing.
01:07:05
So Lewis Pullman ended up getting it.
01:07:07
And I don't know, something about the way he brought that
01:07:13
character to life. Like I as much as depressing as
01:07:17
some of this movie was, it was also still like so heartfelt.
01:07:22
I just, you just want to take this character and just give
01:07:25
them a hug the way the Thunderbolts did at the end.
01:07:27
It's like you just feel like one big hug will solve all his
01:07:31
problems. And you know that's not the
01:07:33
case, but you really felt like that's what that character
01:07:36
needed. And so when they did that at the
01:07:39
end, I think somebody else said I was looking at commentary on
01:07:44
Twitter and somebody was like, I don't think the The Avengers
01:07:48
ever did a group hug, do you? Remember, no they.
01:07:53
Sort of did, yeah. When they sat around, that was
01:07:57
their decompression together. But it wasn't the way the
01:08:02
community and, you know, I'm sure.
01:08:05
I mean, I can only speak for myself.
01:08:06
I've dealt with depression before and I know what that's
01:08:09
like to sometimes you don't need anybody to say anything.
01:08:13
You don't need medicine. You don't need this.
01:08:15
Sometimes you just need a hug, you know, And that's, that's how
01:08:21
I felt when I saw that. I was just sitting in the movie
01:08:23
theater trying. I'm, I'm around all these other
01:08:26
people. I'm like, I'm trying not to cry.
01:08:27
I'm trying not to cry but I felt that so much.
01:08:30
Because with that hug, it says I see you and.
01:08:35
We're here with you. Yeah.
01:08:36
And because he probably he felt so they're.
01:08:40
Never going to leave him because we clearly don't need you.
01:08:44
How many setbacks? So you going to be with us, OK.
01:08:49
But but he feels so alone. He was.
01:08:51
He was just still alone. Yeah, and now he has like a
01:08:54
family. He has a family.
01:08:55
And he's like, OK, I'm washing the dishes or something.
01:08:58
And that's another reason why I didn't like Valentina, because
01:09:01
of what she did to him, because you draw him in and make him
01:09:05
feel like, oh, he's going to be important.
01:09:07
Isn't that what you want? You want for people to see that
01:09:10
you are not your past, you are not who you used to be or you
01:09:14
are not. This is not the only thing.
01:09:16
You are like, you're more important, you have purpose,
01:09:19
blah, blah, blah. And then you try to control him.
01:09:23
And when he doesn't do what he wants you to do, you want to hit
01:09:27
the kill switch on him. Like, literally, the man was
01:09:31
just sitting there questioning you.
01:09:32
Like, yeah, I really don't think I should have dyed my hair
01:09:35
blonde. I'm not really feeling it, but,
01:09:37
you know, maybe that's something we could like.
01:09:39
The fact that this man was not just grateful that you gave him
01:09:44
this, this, you know, these powers and the suit and
01:09:47
everything. You wanted him to be a robot.
01:09:51
You wanted him to just do everything you wanted.
01:09:54
You wanted him to. You wanted to control him.
01:09:58
And then you forget that this man is an actual human being.
01:10:02
This is a man who has feelings. This is a man who has opinions.
01:10:06
This is a man who wants some agency over his own person.
01:10:10
And when he decides to voice that to you, you want to kill
01:10:14
him? Yeah.
01:10:15
I think, I think you, I think you may have went a little bit
01:10:17
too far with century because what really happened was he's
01:10:23
like, I'm a God. Why should I listen to you?
01:10:28
This. Yeah, that's about as much
01:10:29
agency as he was trying to impart.
01:10:32
But he will only said that in response to her basically like
01:10:35
you need to do what I tell you to do.
01:10:37
And he was like why do I have to do that?
01:10:39
Because if she hadn't. Done that, all he asked for is
01:10:43
could we change my hair color? Right, went to Nah.
01:10:48
We're keeping it this way and. Then he was like, Oh well, why?
01:10:52
Oh. No, and also she was telling him
01:10:55
to kill the Thunderbolts right? Like I've already defeated them,
01:10:59
why do I have? To kill him.
01:11:01
To kill them. Why?
01:11:01
I really don't want to kill. Them.
01:11:02
And when I say defeat, yeah, he did.
01:11:08
Yeah, he did. He did.
01:11:10
I mean, Bucky was in pieces. Literal.
01:11:15
They literally ran out of that room.
01:11:17
But yeah. Unless it's picked him up so
01:11:18
quick. I said Oh my God, he is out for
01:11:20
the count. So we had to grab his arm.
01:11:23
Yeah, yeah, it was bad, but the. Fact that he even questioned
01:11:28
that when she was like, OK, so now you can go kill him.
01:11:31
He was like, why? They're already defeated.
01:11:33
And you know, that's the one thing I like about him.
01:11:35
He's like, I've already beat them.
01:11:37
There would be no Victoria. There would be no point and
01:11:41
killing them now, like they're already defeated.
01:11:43
They literally had to carry Bucky and take him out because
01:11:46
he was unconscious. What would like?
01:11:49
Yeah, what? Why do I have to go and do
01:11:51
anything? Further to them, yeah, they're
01:11:53
running the. Fuck with them.
01:11:54
They're. Running out.
01:11:56
They're running to the elevator. Oh yeah, again, agency.
01:12:00
Because when he didn't go kill them, that's what she was like.
01:12:04
Oh, I really hate to do this. Why do you have to do this?
01:12:08
He's already shown that he is powerful than all of them, more
01:12:11
powerful than all of them put together.
01:12:14
You don't have to kill them to prove a point.
01:12:16
I mean, I realized you want to you want them killed for your
01:12:20
safety maybe, but you got you got tree.
01:12:25
You're good that he didn't do what you what you wanted him to
01:12:33
do. So now you're going to you know,
01:12:35
you got the, the, the, the kill switch and you going to take him
01:12:39
out. And all y'all did was just make
01:12:43
things worse. You just made it worse because
01:12:48
you killed, because it's almost like you killed that part of
01:12:51
him. That was the the regular, the
01:12:54
human part, the conscious you, you killed that person.
01:12:58
And then that's when the void took over.
01:13:00
And the void was just like, oh, OK, I'm just going to disappear
01:13:03
you and you and you and you and you.
01:13:06
I didn't know what to expect because the way that they showed
01:13:10
it in the trailers, it looked like he was killing people.
01:13:13
I was really thrown off when when Lexi was hugging the was
01:13:17
talking to the little girl and the little girl, when I say the
01:13:20
whole theater went oh, because it's like, wait, we killing
01:13:25
children now, right? Yeah, I'm not.
01:13:28
So too, I was like, wait a second, like damn.
01:13:30
Right in the middle of her talking.
01:13:34
OK, bye. Right, right.
01:13:39
And then you just take, you literally take over the whole
01:13:41
city with the void. And to think that all of those
01:13:46
people who you think, you know, they're kind of getting spreaded
01:13:49
and you think they're dying. But to think that they were all
01:13:52
in their own personal hell dealing with their own shame
01:13:56
rooms or their worst memories. And I love the way that they
01:14:01
kind of did that in the film as far as, OK, they have these
01:14:05
different rooms. And you know, I think the thing
01:14:08
with Elena, of course we get to see we get to see several of
01:14:13
hers and just to to see what she went through as a kid.
01:14:19
You know, her first, I think technically speaking is the
01:14:23
first kill, even though she was the one that she wasn't the one
01:14:25
that killed the little girl, but she lured her having to see that
01:14:32
over and over again. And then the training in the Red
01:14:36
Room and then her in the bathtub passed out from the drinking,
01:14:42
probably after all the stuff happened with, you know, Natasha
01:14:46
being dead and stuff. I was just like, I wasn't ready
01:14:53
to to deal with all of this today.
01:14:55
When I walked into the movie theater, you, you know, you
01:14:58
thinking, you're looking at the trailers and you thinking this
01:15:00
is going to be kind of a fun movie.
01:15:02
You know, like, oh, they're, they're making jokes.
01:15:04
You got the Red Garden and Bucky, you got all these things.
01:15:08
And then you come into a movie and it's completely different
01:15:10
from anything I was expecting, but it was also one of the best
01:15:15
Marvel movies for me that I've seen because they tackle all of
01:15:20
that. They tackle the trauma.
01:15:22
And like I said, we talk about that all the time, how these
01:15:25
characters go through trauma after trauma, after trauma after
01:15:29
trauma after trauma. They never get a chance to sit
01:15:31
and think about it. They never get a chance to deal
01:15:34
with. It's just kind of off to the
01:15:35
next thing, off to the next thing and to see them actually
01:15:40
have to kind of stop in their tracks and deal with it in order
01:15:44
to help someone else deal with theirs.
01:15:48
I thought it was a beautiful way to to to bring this team
01:15:54
together. And then yes, with Bucky as the
01:15:56
league, because I was not expecting that, like Bucky being
01:16:00
the leader, but he does, you know, I think that kind of
01:16:05
proves that he may have a shit together a little bit better
01:16:09
than than, you know, we usually see him, which is good because
01:16:15
that man has been through so much trauma.
01:16:17
Like they were sitting there talking about, oh, OK, so do we
01:16:19
want to do we want to do one up on the trauma?
01:16:23
Oh, yeah. I was the child.
01:16:24
I was the child assassin. That's what Elena said.
01:16:28
And they're going through all the traumas.
01:16:29
It's like, I don't know how any of them are going to be normal,
01:16:34
but I think they they're off to a decent.
01:16:37
Start and then what you consider normal.
01:16:39
Well, OK, so let's not, let's not say normal, let's say
01:16:44
functioning life. Yeah, yeah.
01:16:49
So let's talk about the benefits of group therapy.
01:16:52
Yes. Let's talk about not that.
01:16:54
Let's talk about Bucky for a second.
01:16:55
We just let's talk about Bucky. One thing is I like when we
01:16:59
watch the movie Anthony turns when, you know, Bucky was going
01:17:03
to to Congress, then he was like elected, they elected him.
01:17:08
And I'm like, yes, they did. Even I don't know how his
01:17:12
speeches were because he said was we deal with stuff.
01:17:15
We'll get to the stuff, the bad stuff.
01:17:18
We'll take care of that stuff. Like come on, dude.
01:17:22
But people felt just his heart, and they were like, yeah, we'll.
01:17:27
Vote for But here's my question. Was he really, did he really run
01:17:32
for Congress to run for Congress?
01:17:34
Or was this supposed to be an undercover thing, an undercover
01:17:38
thing to take Valentina down? Because when he's sitting there
01:17:41
talking to Mr. Gary, the, the ever illustrious Wendell Pierce,
01:17:45
when he's talking to him, it's almost like he's saying, look,
01:17:50
we already have a plan for how we're going to do this.
01:17:54
I just need you to do what you supposed do what you were
01:17:56
elected to do so that we can get her out.
01:17:59
So I felt like it was more of an undercover thing.
01:18:03
No, he was actually elected. Remember in the Red Hulk movie
01:18:07
he was in the middle of campaigning?
01:18:09
Yeah, but I'm but that's why I was saying I was wondering if
01:18:12
all of that was part of the plan to to impeach Valentina because
01:18:17
from the way. So what's his motivation to
01:18:20
actually that just don't seem like Bucky unless he's trying to
01:18:23
give back well to his. Community well.
01:18:28
It could be a I mean the way he's working.
01:18:30
Is they always try to find someone who can win the
01:18:32
district. And they were like, oh, you
01:18:34
know, he's popular now. He can win the district.
01:18:39
Yeah, you know, because he has a great platform to run on.
01:18:43
You know, someone who was the Captain America's best friend,
01:18:47
brainwashed into becoming an assassin, being able to
01:18:51
breakthrough and becoming a hero, all this other stuff.
01:18:54
But then the other thing I was thinking of.
01:18:56
Just a kid from Brooklyn. Yeah.
01:18:58
Just a kid from Brooklyn, but also he could be running.
01:19:05
Hey, y'all gonna hate me for bringing this up?
01:19:07
He can't be running because maybe half of the people that
01:19:10
were in power or in government has been revealed to me.
01:19:17
No, no secret. Invasions, yeah.
01:19:21
They were scrolls so maybe they were looking for for new people.
01:19:25
Let's not go there. Let's move on.
01:19:28
I'll just, I didn't I intentionally avoid you talking
01:19:32
about that show. Yeah.
01:19:33
Because then watching this, I was thinking, so are are are we
01:19:38
going to talk about this at all? No.
01:19:41
You mean you mean sore? You mean sore head?
01:19:44
No idea what was going on with Valentina.
01:19:47
You mean Nick Fury didn't know what was happening?
01:19:51
Yeah, he is. He has other issues.
01:19:53
I mean, to get his marriage together.
01:19:57
OK, let's move on. So and then the what?
01:20:00
Condon should feel some type of way where you just going to put
01:20:02
your arm in a dishwasher? I'm sorry.
01:20:06
But I don't. Understand that's that's the
01:20:10
best way to sanitize it. Is that's simply.
01:20:13
You can't put it in the wash machine.
01:20:14
I understand that, but it's just the disregard like you can and
01:20:18
that. Arm has probably been through a
01:20:19
couple of faces, probably had some blood on it, so yeah, it
01:20:22
needs sanitized. But you remember I said that
01:20:24
when I first saw the trailer? I said why the fuck is Buggy's
01:20:28
arm in the dishwasher? Why?
01:20:30
But. The and it's and it's made out
01:20:32
of vibranium. Nothing is going to hurt.
01:20:35
It I know, but it just just feels.
01:20:37
It's just the feels. It feels disrespectful.
01:20:40
It does, I'll say take it to the dry cleaning.
01:20:44
I mean this feels he's. Not going to trust that to
01:20:47
nobody else. I'm just joking.
01:20:49
I am joking, but. Because he won't.
01:20:52
Give it back. The thing I really like in this
01:20:56
movie is how really human he seems.
01:21:01
Like he's the, he's the type of person where when they come up
01:21:05
to him with the microphones to ask him questions, he's just
01:21:07
like, you know, he's not polished.
01:21:10
He's not like this new and improved bucket.
01:21:12
He's still the same kind of. Yeah.
01:21:14
So we're going to, we're going to do the thing because that's
01:21:18
the thing we're supposed to do. And we're going to do the thing.
01:21:21
And, you know, he's just still unsure of himself.
01:21:24
Him sitting there eating, reading the, the, the, the
01:21:27
brochure and he spills the, you know, the Taco on himself.
01:21:30
I was just like, I know some people were like, why are they
01:21:34
making Bucky seem like he's stupid?
01:21:35
I'm like, no, they're making Bucky seem like he's human.
01:21:39
And I love it like this. Right, because I'm sorry, we're
01:21:42
looking at me. Bucky wasn't reading anything
01:21:44
back in the day either. Well, he read, but he was a
01:21:47
Playboy, remember? Bucky read for Hobbit in 19. 30
01:21:52
December He did, but all those people around that time read The
01:21:55
Hobbit. But what I tried to say was
01:21:58
Bucky not stupid, but Bucky wasn't reading stuff and he like
01:22:01
why I got to read this now I don't want to.
01:22:03
Yeah. Because however he watched, he
01:22:06
watched Terminator 2 though. Yeah, what did what did what did
01:22:10
when the Pierce say did you read the brochure?
01:22:12
Did you? Read the packet did.
01:22:14
You read the packet. Packet read the packet Bucky and
01:22:17
he was like. Man, and he was reading the
01:22:20
packet. He's like, it's so boring here.
01:22:22
It's stupid. But I loved it.
01:22:24
I loved it. Also, but you know what about
01:22:26
that part? I thought that he was saying
01:22:30
because like to me when he was talking about we gonna do this,
01:22:33
you know, the long game. I think Bucky is so used to
01:22:37
fighting so he's like, let's go fight it out.
01:22:40
That's what I took from it. You know what I mean?
01:22:43
More so than any telling him anything else, he Bucky's
01:22:49
thought was to fight it out. Because that's, you know, that's
01:22:51
what he know how to do. Yeah, he's like, let's go grab
01:22:54
her, let's go pair in the room and you should talk.
01:22:56
You're like, no, we're not solving things.
01:23:00
It's not right now, Bucky. But that was my thought on that
01:23:04
part. I'm thinking he would he like,
01:23:08
let's just go pick like they would do if it was him and Steve
01:23:11
or him and anybody else. Let's just go pick her up, but
01:23:14
talk to her and get to the bottom of that way where he's
01:23:17
trying to do it. The legal way.
01:23:19
That part, that probably would have worked better for them
01:23:22
doing it that way, yeah. Well, he can't have it both ways
01:23:26
because even Mill says you can just track my phone.
01:23:29
He's like, I don't do that kind of thing.
01:23:30
I don't do that kind of thing anymore.
01:23:32
And she's like, OK, Mr. Congressman, thank you.
01:23:34
And he was just looking at the phone like, I guess I'm doing it
01:23:38
that way. But that was that was going to
01:23:40
be my question because when they finally get up to Mel's tower,
01:23:45
which the fact that she has Avengers Tower bothers me.
01:23:50
But anyway. But when they get up there, she
01:23:53
makes a comment to Bucky. And she was like, she was like,
01:23:58
even I wasn't expecting you to last, you know, more than a
01:24:03
term, but not even six months. So I'm guessing that at the
01:24:07
point he went Terminator went to go find them.
01:24:10
He was like, you know what, I'm done with this.
01:24:12
I can't. I can't do this and do this.
01:24:15
No, I think that once it comes out that he did that, he would
01:24:19
lose his job because he would. He's a new Avenger.
01:24:25
Now he just blew up. Tanks not.
01:24:28
Not necessarily, Anthony. I'm.
01:24:32
Sorry, Congressman. Congressman get away with a lot.
01:24:35
But that he just he, he went full Terminator Two out on that
01:24:39
road like he lost his job. Someone got to prove it though.
01:24:42
She would, that's the thing. Because she can say.
01:24:45
I know that actually, no, Valentina can't prove it because
01:24:49
if she if she proves it, she's she's there.
01:24:53
Oh yeah, you know that stuff Y'all were trying to.
01:24:56
Nikki, trust me, she will have tapes.
01:24:58
Bucky. Bucky has been doing this for
01:25:00
100 years. He knows how not to get caught.
01:25:05
But trust me, he'll be all right.
01:25:08
I think she would just say, oh, you can even make it after.
01:25:11
He probably hadn't even resigned.
01:25:13
Yeah, because and she and all he going, he been right.
01:25:16
He riding around with a shotgun. He's been blew up.
01:25:19
He blew. Up how long?
01:25:20
How long has he been doing this Hanukkah?
01:25:23
100 a damn time, but you. Know he's not in that that real
01:25:27
frame of mind when he was assassin and covering up his
01:25:30
tracks. He's still.
01:25:33
There. And.
01:25:34
He's still dangerous. I'm saying, yeah, he's still
01:25:37
dangerous. He's still dangerous.
01:25:39
He's just not cleaning up his tracks.
01:25:40
That's all I was saying. No, I think he's more positive
01:25:43
he have. Like his credit card.
01:25:46
See when he was a spy. Now you feeling in, Now you
01:25:48
making he. Killed people and took a
01:25:50
motorcycle. I'm sorry.
01:25:52
No, he probably, that's probably his motorcycle.
01:25:55
I will. He still have safe houses all
01:25:58
over the world. Oh, absolutely.
01:26:01
He trust me, he, he, he's, he's been doing this for 100 years.
01:26:05
He's fine. Because you never know.
01:26:10
Because I mean, one of the things that we did learn when
01:26:13
Valentina was in her hearing this is taking place some months
01:26:18
after Red Hole emerged. So yeah, you Bucky is not in
01:26:23
retirement by no stretch of the imagine, No, but he might have.
01:26:27
Been taken at the end as the new Avenger.
01:26:29
He doesn't have that congressman job.
01:26:32
Oh yeah, no, he can't. That's what I'm.
01:26:34
Saying it's over. So yeah, he's done.
01:26:38
I don't know. He no, no, no.
01:26:40
He has to return there. He can't.
01:26:43
He can be done with the congressman because if, if, if I
01:26:46
have to look at him in that New Avengers suit, I'll take it.
01:26:50
He he can resign. He can resign.
01:26:52
He's in my Alexis jumpsuit with his.
01:26:55
No, no, no, I'm talking about the New Avengers suit that he
01:26:58
had on with the glorious hair. I don't know what they did to
01:27:01
Bucky and those what was the 14 months from the end of quote UN
01:27:06
quote Thunderbolts to when I don't know what they did with
01:27:09
him, but I like it. I need to like I have been
01:27:12
looking for that image everywhere so Casey can put it
01:27:15
on a T-shirt for me because Bucky was looking good.
01:27:19
And that post, they all were except for Lexie.
01:27:25
But Bucky, Yeah. Bob was in his pajamas.
01:27:30
And, and you know where I, I'll take Bob in his pajamas as a
01:27:34
void to the void because that void, I don't know what they did
01:27:38
to make the void the way that they did.
01:27:40
But the fact that he was so blacked out and all you can see
01:27:43
were the eyes that, that, that was scary to me.
01:27:48
That that really was because it it really looking at the screen
01:27:52
it really did feel like something was just coming to
01:27:58
envelope you in darkness and I didn't like that feeling I was
01:28:02
like OK, y'all did a good job with the void because I like I'm
01:28:06
sitting in my my seat and I was just feeling so uncomfortable
01:28:10
with this and I was like oh please don't let him be somebody
01:28:13
that's that's actually like able to kill people like this because
01:28:17
what do you need doomsday for Avengers the void or something
01:28:21
because. You know what?
01:28:23
You know who else deserve some credit?
01:28:26
Lewis Pullman, because when he fill out the sky and got up and
01:28:30
his stuff was all where they shot him and he was still was
01:28:33
all, he looked shredded. Oh my goodness.
01:28:36
He did. I was.
01:28:37
Like he did I. Was like, wait what?
01:28:39
Right. He did.
01:28:42
Yeah, and, and you know what? I don't know why it took me
01:28:46
forever. I'm sitting here looking at him
01:28:48
on the screen. I'm like, he looks so familiar.
01:28:53
Damn Bill Pullman's. Son, Yeah.
01:28:58
It's like, oh that makes so much sense now.
01:29:01
Like I didn't even think about. The same he is, I didn't.
01:29:05
Think about. The I looked, I looked for it
01:29:07
and I couldn't find any. I stopped looking when I didn't
01:29:13
see it. See what?
01:29:14
I was looking it up and I couldn't find it because I I
01:29:17
swore he looked just like Bill Pullman and I couldn't find it.
01:29:20
It's not Stop looking. Yeah, that's the.
01:29:22
Son. I thought you were going to say
01:29:24
you recognize from Top Gun Maverick is Bob.
01:29:27
I haven't seen Top Gun Maverick yet.
01:29:30
I know I. Know, I know it's, it's on a
01:29:33
very long list of movies that I need to get caught up on, but
01:29:39
yeah, but I saw a clip of him as Bob in Maverick and I was just
01:29:44
like, wait, so he's done 2 movies almost back-to-back where
01:29:48
he's named the same character. That's weird.
01:29:52
But I mean it, it fit. Just FYI I've never seen regular
01:30:00
Top Gun I'm it's. OK, Yeah, it's OK if you didn't
01:30:05
see the first top. I'm not surprised you.
01:30:08
You get the gist. First of all, you saw the clips,
01:30:11
you know who was in it, you know, and you hit the same, you
01:30:15
hit the same thing. I got a need for speed and you
01:30:18
know, you know that part, so you're good as long.
01:30:21
As I didn't miss nothing. No, you didn't miss anything but
01:30:24
the second. One, I mean, it's a good.
01:30:25
One really good. The second one was.
01:30:27
Really good. OK, yeah, yeah.
01:30:29
Top Gun is one of those classic 18 movies that's like, yeah, it
01:30:33
was, yeah. But you, you got the gist from
01:30:36
over the years of them playing certain clips and you know, the
01:30:38
volleyball scene, you seen that Val Kilmer with no shirt on and
01:30:43
they're like volleyball. OK.
01:30:47
Yeah. So I do want to talk about Alexa
01:30:53
a little bit because. I love him.
01:30:56
When we when we were discussing the What If series, there was
01:30:59
there was a episode of him and Bucky and I, I was kind of not
01:31:04
feeling as gracious towards the Red Guardian because I was like,
01:31:07
Oh my God, he is getting on my nerves.
01:31:10
However, I will say this, I think part of the issue that I
01:31:17
had with Red Guardian before was I felt like he was trying too
01:31:23
hard to be funny without a lot of background.
01:31:27
And now that, you know, we get this movie and you get to kind
01:31:32
of see him more as who he is without a purpose.
01:31:37
Like the last time we saw him, he was in jail for most of the
01:31:40
time. So it's kind of like, I don't
01:31:42
really know anything about him except for what we saw at the
01:31:45
beginning of Black Widow. And he was, you know, very much
01:31:48
dedicated soldier, dedicated operative, blah, blah, blah.
01:31:53
And then he gets betrayed. So now you get to see a little
01:31:56
bit more of that in this movie. And him just kind of like you
01:31:59
said, he came to the States, he's kind of feeling out of out
01:32:03
of place. He's not really doing what he
01:32:06
wants to do. He wants to be a hero.
01:32:07
But you know, it's just also, I think for him coming from
01:32:12
another country, this, this, this country has an over
01:32:17
abundance of superheroes right now, even though we don't see
01:32:20
them all interact in all of the Marvel properties.
01:32:23
But, you know, I, I think I appreciate him more because you
01:32:27
realize that he is he's covering up the pain that he's in.
01:32:33
And yes, his jokes get very corny and they get very
01:32:38
uncomfortable sometimes. But I like I like his character
01:32:42
in this one. I like kind of how he tries to
01:32:46
relate to everyone. But mainly I love the
01:32:49
relationship that he and Elena have in this movie.
01:32:52
Like if you had told me when I saw Black Widow that they would
01:32:57
be a, a decent father daughter relationship, I, I would have
01:33:04
been like, no, there's no way cuz she can't stand him.
01:33:07
And he, you know, he only want, he only likes them because they
01:33:10
have read in their Ledger. But I, I like the, the depth
01:33:15
that they gave to their relationship in this movie.
01:33:18
I, I do like his character. I was like, he's so much fun and
01:33:22
and they needed that, especially with all of everything that's
01:33:26
going on, everybody dealing with their trauma and all this other
01:33:30
stuff. He was just like the bright
01:33:32
light there. And when Elena walked into the
01:33:35
void and they had to pull him back, Oh my God, I sobbed.
01:33:39
I sobbed because I felt his pain.
01:33:42
He was like, I've already lost one daughter.
01:33:43
I can't lose the. Other.
01:33:46
I. Felt it, yeah.
01:33:49
But yeah, I love him. His, his, his same room.
01:33:54
It was going to have something to do with his time in the
01:33:57
gulag, in the prison. Oh, OK.
01:34:01
So that would have been interesting.
01:34:02
Do they have do they have those? Are they deleted scenes online?
01:34:06
Or just I think Ava's might be. I don't know if Alexis is.
01:34:13
OK, so where where do you get the information from?
01:34:16
Interviews. It was interviews from the from
01:34:19
the writers. Yeah, and they also said his
01:34:21
shame room was not finishing Stranger Things the last season.
01:34:27
On time now. That's funny.
01:34:32
That's funny, you know. Since this is over, maybe we can
01:34:37
speed it up a little bit. You know, when we were watching
01:34:40
What If, and we really love the relationship he has with Becky,
01:34:46
something I realized, he has a little bit of hero worship and
01:34:50
Becky. Yes, he.
01:34:53
Does he does? Then you think, oh, wait, The
01:34:55
Winter Soldier would have had to have been a legend to him
01:34:58
growing up and that that's his hero.
01:35:02
Yeah. And I think it's it's, it's kind
01:35:04
of cool to see the interaction. And then Bucky's like a hero and
01:35:08
stuff now and stuff. Yeah, he's like, he loves it.
01:35:12
I I Winter Soldier, that guy is so cool.
01:35:15
Yeah. Yeah, OK, so I will say this
01:35:22
Ava's character, I didn't have a problem with her in the movie.
01:35:26
Like I like what they gave her to do, but still it's kind of
01:35:29
like, I don't know if I should have felt more about her
01:35:34
character because we didn't really delve into a lot of her
01:35:40
back story and. Yeah, we didn't get a lot of
01:35:43
time with her. Yeah.
01:35:44
Yeah, and I, I just kind of feel like, I don't know, I, I wanted
01:35:50
more with her, especially because Hannah is so good as
01:35:54
her, just the way she kind of the way she and Yelena play it
01:35:58
off of each other. And yeah, I just, I wanted more,
01:36:05
especially since we didn't have that other extra member to deal
01:36:08
with because she was the one that actually, you know, shot
01:36:12
Taskmaster. I think Mike will probably love
01:36:14
her for that. But yeah, I, I felt like I
01:36:18
needed more. So.
01:36:20
But she's going to be in Doomsday as well, isn't she?
01:36:24
Yeah, they're all confirmed except for.
01:36:28
OK. I mean she's BBQ so she can't
01:36:31
come. I I still don't understand I
01:36:38
don't I don't understand why they did that like how much did
01:36:41
y'all have to pay for her for her to just come in and
01:36:45
literally die? I agree 8 minutes and and the
01:36:50
and the the marketing like I have.
01:36:52
One line. I'm not here for you.
01:36:56
Yeah. She's got that Fed card.
01:37:00
I'm not here for you. I don't know.
01:37:04
OK, So I'm going to ask the question to the two counselors
01:37:09
and counselors and training or therapist, whatever you want to
01:37:12
call you yourselves. How did you feel about the way
01:37:16
that they dealt with depression in this movie?
01:37:21
No, you go first. I think they they deal with it
01:37:25
very well. It wasn't the only, it wasn't
01:37:30
the only one in the movie that we had the depression, bipolar,
01:37:34
substance abuse, narcissism, their favorite one, Hanukkah,
01:37:44
and just just the whole idea of, of seeing how these things
01:37:53
affect people and that they are actually real people, whether
01:37:57
they have superpowers or not. They they still are humans with
01:38:01
emotions. And just like everyone else,
01:38:05
they are subject to mental health problems.
01:38:10
And I think they did a pretty good job of, of showing that.
01:38:14
And like I said, Marvel has a pretty good track record when
01:38:17
they lean into it and when they kind of deal with it and sort of
01:38:22
discuss it. Marvel doesn't have a bad
01:38:25
reputation of of dealing with it.
01:38:28
Like even with Edward Norton's Hulk talking about oh, and him
01:38:34
and when witch McCullough took over the role, talking about
01:38:39
self harm. And you know, I tried to take
01:38:42
care of myself and he spit the bullet out.
01:38:45
You know, they barbell hasn't ever really shield away from
01:38:48
mental health. And I think this movie is a
01:38:51
testament to that. It's like a culmination of all
01:38:55
these other times we've had to deal with grief and trauma.
01:38:59
You know, the one line I always use is the one the vision said
01:39:03
to to describe which what is grief if not love persevering.
01:39:14
Yeah. And you get moments like that in
01:39:18
this movie, especially between the Lexi and Yelena.
01:39:23
And I think that that's that they did a pretty good job.
01:39:28
OK, they did a pretty good job. OK so the only issue I have is
01:39:38
things don't get solved by a hug and they need to to promote more
01:39:44
of what you do afterwards. Like it helped us get out of the
01:39:48
void but he still needed help. They all still need help and
01:39:53
just being around him to keep him occupied and busy isn't
01:39:58
what's going to help Bob. So the only time I really felt
01:40:04
like they kind of dealt with it was with Bucky.
01:40:08
However, Bucky wasn't really paying attention in therapy, but
01:40:11
I think outside Bucky was actually taking what he was
01:40:14
listening to in therapy and applied it, even though he was
01:40:17
pretending like he wasn't in therapy, but he was actually he
01:40:21
was listening. He applied.
01:40:23
That's the only time I feel like they like went through with it.
01:40:27
They showed, they showed, you know, they showed grief and how
01:40:33
people deal with grief. But again, like Wanda needed a
01:40:36
hug too. They can't even give her a hug
01:40:40
and see where she went, but she needed to see someone.
01:40:43
So they'll show very well what people go through and what it
01:40:47
really looks like sometimes in real life, but not the follow.
01:40:52
That's the only issue I had. Like the hug is not going to
01:40:55
solve this. Right.
01:40:57
It's going to calm him down enough for everyone to get out
01:41:02
of the void. And then we got to figure out
01:41:04
what to we do. So it'll be the nice mention of
01:41:09
Bob. Your therapist will be here on
01:41:10
Thursday. He's like, OK, like.
01:41:14
Yeah, because what we got was the hug, them coming out of the
01:41:17
void and then immediately stepping into Valentina's
01:41:20
bullshit with the the. Price conference.
01:41:23
And then months later, we talked about the name and Bob's washing
01:41:26
dishes, and we just got to keep him.
01:41:28
Like, you're pacifying Bob so you don't get the void again.
01:41:32
But you need to do more than that.
01:41:34
So I'm. Like to think that if I'm sorry,
01:41:37
I would like to think that if Becky knows that it works
01:41:44
because it worked with him, then he would do that for the rest
01:41:48
of. Them right, but it'll be nice to
01:41:50
to. See.
01:41:52
And so so people be like, OK, you just the thing about going
01:41:58
to get help. So it'll help people like, you
01:42:00
know, I feel this way because they were naming real issues
01:42:03
that people feel right now. And then to just say something
01:42:08
about getting help because some people don't have their friends
01:42:12
around them like that to give them that hug or kind of talk
01:42:15
them through like Elena was doing.
01:42:17
She was constantly trying to reach him.
01:42:19
Like I hear what you're saying. I felt the same way, but you
01:42:23
know, this is what we need to do.
01:42:25
So that's the only issue I have. This like show what needs to be
01:42:30
done afterwards so that the void won't come back.
01:42:34
Or they could be group therapy having boots.
01:42:40
Oh, because no, because then another.
01:42:42
That's another thing they did do it in game, because Steve, he
01:42:46
was. One of the group.
01:42:47
He was going and talking about what they will need to do after
01:42:50
everyone disappeared. So that was a good there, and
01:42:53
Sam was already doing it. Yeah.
01:42:56
And the reason why I bring up the group therapy thing is Becky
01:43:00
was sort of be like the group leader because group therapy,
01:43:04
the benefits of the sense of belonging, holding each other
01:43:07
accountable, motivating each other, learning from each other,
01:43:12
a safe place to express themselves, a safe space.
01:43:16
And also the ability to see new perspectives and learning how to
01:43:21
cope with it. Because that was one thing that
01:43:25
Alexi was helping Yelena with is he was giving her a new way to
01:43:28
look at what she was going through.
01:43:32
And Bucky, having dealt with his trauma and coming to terms with
01:43:37
his past because he stopped running from his past, he's
01:43:40
accepted his past. He can help all of them with
01:43:43
that, especially Yelena. And John has come to terms with
01:43:49
it, accept it, don't run from it.
01:43:53
And especially with Bob, because Bob has a lot of things that
01:43:57
he's constantly trying to run away from his past.
01:44:01
That's everything about him is about avoiding dealing with any
01:44:06
of those emotions from his past, any of those experience from his
01:44:09
past. Blakey can really help him with
01:44:11
that. But I do like what Michelle
01:44:13
said. We would be nice if we can see
01:44:16
that, because then people would know that you know what it's if
01:44:19
these people can go get help to deal with their stuff, then
01:44:23
maybe I could too. So I wonder if they're going to
01:44:27
put at least a little bit of that in Doomsday.
01:44:30
Because from what I understand that that in credit scene where
01:44:35
we saw them as the New Avengers and everything going on, that is
01:44:39
actually a scene from Doomsday. The Russo brothers were the ones
01:44:44
who actually filmed that in credit scene and they put it in
01:44:48
the movie. So I'm wondering if they are
01:44:51
going to at least address a little bit of that because
01:44:56
Avengers Doomsday is like they're gonna have all of these
01:45:00
people 'cause I think what was it on the on the initial
01:45:03
reveals? Like was it 33 characters?
01:45:07
Maybe not quite that many, but it was it was quite a few. 32
01:45:15
yeah, for some reason I want to say it's 25, something like
01:45:18
that. But when is it coming out?
01:45:21
2026, I think. Next year, 2727 I think.
01:45:27
Do we get another movie before then besides Fantastic Four?
01:45:33
Nope, I'm not sure. That's it.
01:45:35
That leads her to another X-Men or anything?
01:45:38
Nothing. Not that I'm aware of because I
01:45:44
think the only other movie that was supposed to come out was
01:45:47
Blade and you know, that I think is scrapped.
01:45:52
But you know what why y'all looking at Another thing I want
01:45:54
to add even though I said that about they didn't show like the
01:45:57
end thing but it was kind of good that a lot of people see
01:46:03
MCU movies and it can say like even the superheroes, even the
01:46:08
ones who are assassins and stuff.
01:46:10
Everyone has different issues. Yeah.
01:46:13
And we got to deal with it and someone as simple as Bob, who
01:46:16
was just completely normal. It's not through a lot we have.
01:46:21
Iron Heart coming out soon. Yeah, that's television or
01:46:25
movie. The television as far as movie
01:46:28
it does say online. Avengers Doomsday is releasing
01:46:32
May 1st, 2020. Six.
01:46:35
Yeah, I see that. OK.
01:46:38
All right. So, OK, yeah.
01:46:41
Everything else is a series series.
01:46:45
When is that from that July 25th?
01:46:47
July 25th. Yeah.
01:46:50
So, yeah, but OK, yeah, I, like I said, I love the way that they
01:46:57
kind of did the the Oh my God, my mind just went blank.
01:47:04
What do they call it? The rooms.
01:47:05
The Rooms. The.
01:47:07
Shame rooms, the shame rooms, yes, I like the way that they
01:47:10
did the shame rooms. If only were so easy to
01:47:14
compartmentalize things and just kind of push them away until we
01:47:19
wanted to deal with them. But I I do like the way that
01:47:24
they did that and the fact that they were able to.
01:47:29
I I think I really like the fact that you have all these
01:47:33
characters who pretty much have their own issues to deal with.
01:47:38
And they, they really are at that point kind of like, OK,
01:47:42
well, you know, you have your thing to deal with.
01:47:44
I have my own thing to deal with.
01:47:46
Kind of like what John Walker said, every man for itself.
01:47:49
But then when you see what's going on with this character and
01:47:52
you're like, OK, there may be a way for us to say both of them.
01:47:56
And they go in no hesitation. No, it's like no discussion.
01:48:01
Like, literally Ghost is getting ready to go into the boy.
01:48:04
And Bucky's like, what? What if you disappear, too?
01:48:07
She was like, but what if we don't?
01:48:09
And then when they have the conversation, John was like,
01:48:11
yeah, I do recall seeing something when he touched me,
01:48:15
they were like, oh, OK, let's go.
01:48:17
And they went in to to do that. And they were like, OK, so if
01:48:22
this is how we got to get out, you got to show us the worst
01:48:24
room. And they were willing to go
01:48:26
through all of that with him. I I like that because a lot of
01:48:31
times when, you know, when people are dealing with their
01:48:34
own things, when they're dealing with their trauma, when they're
01:48:36
dealing with whatever, we're always expecting our friends to
01:48:42
be the ones to help us through, not necessarily strangers,
01:48:45
unless you are in therapy, because most of the time when
01:48:47
you go to therapy, you're going to somebody you don't know.
01:48:50
But just in this context, it was just interesting to see these,
01:48:56
these characters who want our superheroes to don't get along.
01:49:01
Three are like, OK, who is this guy?
01:49:05
OK, this is a guy we knew for a few hours and that all of a
01:49:08
sudden he's powerful enough to do this.
01:49:11
Like we should be trying to take him down.
01:49:13
That's what you would think that most superheroes would be doing.
01:49:16
But instead of that, they were like, OK, let's see how we can
01:49:18
help him. And it made a lot of the
01:49:21
difference the. Hero they didn't mean, I said
01:49:24
that's what They didn't need him as a superhero.
01:49:25
Yeah, didn't need him as a threat.
01:49:27
They met him as a regular dude. Yeah.
01:49:31
So do you give John to begin with, you give John some credit
01:49:37
for not having to the to the void.
01:49:40
I mean, he went into the void. He went into the.
01:49:43
Void went to go help. He did.
01:49:45
He went to go help. He could have stood outside and
01:49:47
waiting for him. And that meant he had to go
01:49:49
through his same room. Yeah, to get through.
01:49:52
Rooms. Yeah, yeah, many, many rooms
01:49:55
that. Should count many, many, many,
01:49:58
many. Yeah, that should count
01:50:01
something a little bit. Whatever.
01:50:03
I also like the fact. I also like the fact that they
01:50:07
took they used the same actress for young Yelena in this movie
01:50:13
that they did in Black Widow. It's it's the same little
01:50:16
actress. And I was like, she looks
01:50:18
familiar. And when I went to go look her
01:50:20
up, I was like, oh, that was the one who played little bitty
01:50:23
Yelena in Black Widow. So I like that.
01:50:28
What was your favorite part of the film?
01:50:36
On everybody speaking once there's.
01:50:39
So many. Yeah, I don't know.
01:50:44
I I. Think the I think the the the
01:50:48
chicken strung out on meth hitting everybody was hilarious
01:50:52
because when they were talking about their past before and he
01:50:56
said something about I was AI dressed up as a chicken holding
01:51:03
a sign or something but I got a meth.
01:51:05
I missed what he said because he said it so fast and so low like
01:51:10
he was embarrassed about it. So when I saw it in the the
01:51:13
first time I had no clue what the fuck was going on.
01:51:16
I was like why the fuck is there a chicken hitting me?
01:51:22
He said you hit me one more time.
01:51:28
So yeah, that was that was one of my favorite parts because I
01:51:30
don't. Know.
01:51:31
Totally unexpected. I like the limo ride.
01:51:34
You know what I'm about to say that.
01:51:36
And when Bucky came up like Terminator 2 and all that, all
01:51:39
of that, that whole all. Of that him coming up the
01:51:42
mountain in the limo and she's like.
01:51:45
Who's that? He come down, he's like, Oh no,
01:51:48
is. Daddy coming to kill you.
01:51:52
And him trying to turn on the the special stuff and Genuine's
01:51:56
pony comes on and they're like, what is going on?
01:51:59
And Elena was like, who are you trying?
01:52:03
They're like this is bulletproof.
01:52:05
Is someone. Right, that whole, that whole
01:52:09
limo scene, to me, I was just like.
01:52:13
Yeah, my my favorite scene is in the trailers and it's a very
01:52:17
simple scene. It's where the truck is rolling
01:52:21
and Becky blocks the truck over. Yes.
01:52:26
It said. I don't know.
01:52:28
I think that that says a lot about his character.
01:52:32
I like that scene. Yeah, I mean, I like when they
01:52:35
got their butts beat. Beat too.
01:52:37
Yeah, Together. No, I like how he threw the
01:52:40
guardian out of the window and he brought.
01:52:43
Him back. Yeah, I was like, oh, I mean, it
01:52:46
was great, but they were in pieces.
01:52:49
But he was in pieces. But see, again, that shows that
01:52:53
he wasn't because he couldn't throw him out the window and let
01:52:54
him fall. Yeah, but he wasn't.
01:52:58
He wasn't trying to kill. Them because he could have oh,
01:53:03
very different he but he didn't do that.
01:53:06
Yeah, well, at that point they were his friends.
01:53:08
Yeah, they tried to help him. He'd know.
01:53:10
Help him. So.
01:53:12
Yeah, so, but I, I think he felt probably just a little bit more
01:53:18
kind of indebted to Valentina because if it wasn't for her, he
01:53:21
wouldn't even have those powers. So I.
01:53:24
Don't know. I don't.
01:53:26
Think he was a dead. Attorney No, I don't think he
01:53:28
was. I think he just found he thought
01:53:30
that she would be. She came in maternal.
01:53:35
You didn't notice how she switched?
01:53:36
She switched that on. She came in maternal.
01:53:38
So he was thinking, you know, someone to take care of them.
01:53:41
Another scene for me is when Bucky, right, Bucky didn't
01:53:45
believe none of them when he had them tied up.
01:53:48
They were trying to explain he's like, whatever, I don't trust.
01:53:52
You then he gets the phone call and he was like huh, wait, you
01:53:56
said his name is Bob and. Everybody's like.
01:53:59
Bob. Bob, we said.
01:54:00
Bob Yeah. That was fun, he said.
01:54:05
OK, let me untie you. You have fought aliens, you have
01:54:09
fought, look, you have fought the big Three like Sam says you
01:54:14
have. How?
01:54:15
How can you not believe something as simple as this?
01:54:18
Like it's not, it's not out of I.
01:54:21
Mean not like he wouldn't believe it.
01:54:24
He just didn't believe it from them.
01:54:25
Yeah, Yeah, you know what I'm saying If it was a different
01:54:29
group of people if Sam said it, he would have been like, where
01:54:33
we going where you need me to be you know what I'm saying?
01:54:37
He he didn't. Yeah, he's.
01:54:38
Absolutely not. Yeah, I was just saying that
01:54:41
all. That all of them were.
01:54:43
Saying. It unlikely Bunch was saying the
01:54:47
same thing. That would have been enough to
01:54:49
give me pause. Like, OK, this doesn't look like
01:54:54
a team that plays well together. So the fact that they're all
01:54:57
saying the same thing, maybe I. Need they were all in the limo.
01:55:00
He didn't care. I.
01:55:03
Thought he was coming to help, now he coming.
01:55:04
To Yeah, they were. They were like, oh, Bucky's
01:55:07
here. Oh no.
01:55:12
John Walker's like Bucky, bro. Bucky wasn't your friend then.
01:55:17
He ain't your friend now. I don't know why you so excited.
01:55:23
I think my favorite parts were all the ones were Bucky was in
01:55:25
them. Of course they were.
01:55:27
Of course, of course. And the ones where John Walker
01:55:31
was not. Right.
01:55:34
I mean, well, I I will say this and I said this during Falcon in
01:55:38
The Winter Soldier when he got into the fight with the door
01:55:41
Milaje watching John Walker get his ass kicked will never get
01:55:45
old to me. So it was, it was fine, but no,
01:55:50
I, I did like seeing them all kind of band together at the
01:55:55
end, John Walker included, Because I, I really, I think it
01:56:02
does say something to him that he was the one that was given,
01:56:11
you know, Bob, all the shit throughout the movie.
01:56:14
But then at the end when everybody else stepped in, he
01:56:16
could have easily been like, I'm not going to do this, but he was
01:56:20
like, OK, this only works if we all do it together.
01:56:23
So I will give him the credit for that.
01:56:25
Now, whatever he does in the future, it just all depends.
01:56:28
But I just I don't like his attitude and it and.
01:56:33
It may be better now that he's on a team and he gets some
01:56:39
validation and start. Some account and he's he's.
01:56:42
I start. Stealing and start stealing,
01:56:45
right? But I like what if he said we
01:56:46
don't know. He may, he may say those things
01:56:49
to himself, but he's not going to tell perfect strangers that
01:56:52
he feel bad about what he did in the past and stuff.
01:56:56
But he don't walk around like that either.
01:56:58
But we know he feels bad because he's told his close people they
01:57:02
feel bad. Yeah, so.
01:57:05
Maybe Doc, maybe he called Doctor Rayner and said, Hey,
01:57:07
Doctor Rayner, I got a couple more people for you to help,
01:57:11
right? Right.
01:57:13
And we have a session and then my my last favorite was that
01:57:16
which is the the bonus scene of them talking about Avengers
01:57:19
saying with AZ. Baby.
01:57:22
OK. There's no and there's they
01:57:24
don't have the license. So this is my issue with that
01:57:28
scene. This is probably the only issue
01:57:30
I had with the entire movie because that scene takes place
01:57:35
14 months later and they're talking about the issue with The
01:57:39
Avengers and New Avengers because we know and Captain
01:57:42
America braved the world, President Ross was going to task
01:57:46
Sam with restarting The Avengers.
01:57:49
So this becomes a point of contention in that post credits
01:57:52
scene because apparently Bucky and Sam have had a conversation.
01:57:57
Sam is, you know, like, hey, no, I have The Avengers.
01:58:00
You guys can't have the name, blah, blah, blah.
01:58:03
And they hint at some, you know, like a little bit of disturbance
01:58:08
in between Sam and Bucket. I don't like that you are you
01:58:11
are fucking with my my dream team.
01:58:14
I don't like. This see it that way I see like
01:58:18
they agree to disagree because he didn't seem like he had heart
01:58:22
feeling he just like I talked to him.
01:58:23
I mean like he's saying no, I mean.
01:58:26
I understand. Points it look like I understand
01:58:29
his points now. I mean, we assassins and stuff.
01:58:32
I get it. He trying to.
01:58:34
You know, you know what? And I don't even think that
01:58:36
would be the issue with Sam. I think it's probably more so
01:58:42
the issue that Valentina might be over it.
01:58:46
I feel like that might be, that might be the issue because, you
01:58:50
know, they went through this whole thing with the Accords
01:58:53
where the government was over it.
01:58:55
And if I'm not mistaken, in Brave New World, Ross said that
01:59:01
Sam would have, you know, final say on everything, but he wanted
01:59:06
them to work together. So it wouldn't be a project
01:59:09
that's being overseen by the government or, you know, the
01:59:12
government is in charge. Sam is actually in charge, and
01:59:15
with New Avengers, Valentina very much put herself in the
01:59:20
forefront. Oh, this is what I've been
01:59:22
working on and this is my team in Black.
01:59:25
I think that might be the issue, which for me, I feel like the
01:59:32
rest of them should have that issue too.
01:59:34
But I think at this point they're probably like, OK, you
01:59:38
know, like you said, we're a bunch of assassins.
01:59:41
We got a little rebranding to do for ourselves.
01:59:45
You know, Bucky is already known and kind of sort of trusted in
01:59:50
in the regular world now, especially since, you know, his
01:59:53
background has been revealed. He was brainwashed, blah, blah,
01:59:55
blah. The rest of them, not so much.
01:59:58
So they're probably like, OK, we'll do this if it allows us to
02:00:03
do what we want to do, be hero, save people.
02:00:06
We just have to deal with Valentina.
02:00:09
But still, just the way that they brought that scene when
02:00:12
they were like, I thought you was going to talk to him.
02:00:13
He's like I did. And it didn't go well.
02:00:16
I was like, yeah, I'm messing with my team.
02:00:18
I don't like this. I don't like it.
02:00:21
But. I was going to say, I wonder if
02:00:23
he asked him to join his Avengers team.
02:00:27
He probably did say it's too many, but I do like how they
02:00:33
connected Fantastic Four because I don't really don't know how I
02:00:36
feel about that Fantastic Four, but they're bringing it to, you
02:00:41
know, our time. OK, Yeah.
02:00:44
I asked me my opinion after Fantastic Four because I have
02:00:47
mixed reviews. Yeah, I think that was going to
02:00:52
be interesting the the trailer that they've released so far for
02:00:57
it. It doesn't really give us much
02:01:01
to go on. I mean, most of us are familiar
02:01:04
with at least the basics of Fat Fantastic Four, even if we
02:01:07
aren't comic book readers. But I'm just kind of.
02:01:13
I've been told about four times already so.
02:01:16
Do what? I said, ain't the story been
02:01:18
told about four times already? So.
02:01:22
Well, you know that. I mean, that's how they do with
02:01:25
comic books. I mean, how many, how many
02:01:26
Batman variations have we had? Spider Man.
02:01:32
Spider Man, Superman, and we got another Superman coming out this
02:01:37
year. So so yeah, we know that.
02:01:40
We know the basics. I'm cautiously optimistic just
02:01:44
because Pedro is in it and I love Pedro and everything he
02:01:47
does. But and Eddie, but Oh yeah.
02:01:51
But but we'll see. We'll see.
02:01:53
We will. I'm going to reserve my
02:01:55
expectations just like I did within the Bulls because other
02:02:01
ones is really, really good and and they haven't hasn't been a
02:02:05
really good MCU movie in a minute.
02:02:09
A lot of people are saying this is the best one since end game.
02:02:14
Yeah, I could go along. With that, I can go with that.
02:02:17
Yeah, I can go with that. I can go with that because I you
02:02:20
can't even we can't really think of a name.
02:02:23
Any that came after the end game qualimania.
02:02:26
Nope. Shang Shi.
02:02:29
Shang Shi. Oh, OK, Yeah, that's.
02:02:34
OK, I mean, they're they've had some good ones, but that's.
02:02:37
A plus. They've had a good.
02:02:39
One, yeah, I must say that was it.
02:02:41
And then then, yeah. So, yeah, that was it.
02:02:45
So a teen movie. It's with a teen verse of
02:02:47
madness. That was good.
02:02:52
You know what? That was good.
02:02:54
But we know how we felt, how they did Wanda.
02:02:57
So yeah, that's that was the problem.
02:03:00
It was good way. Home.
02:03:04
Now Spider man know what happened, but that's not.
02:03:06
Necessarily MCU movie. Yeah, it is.
02:03:09
Mix it is, but it's a mix. You can't find it on Disney
02:03:13
Plus? Sony telly ain't no MCU movie.
02:03:16
Yeah, OK. OK, alright.
02:03:20
So yeah, that was great. Yeah, so.
02:03:24
That can beat that one, OK. Yeah, but I, I think as far as
02:03:28
ensemble. Pieces this yeah, that was that
02:03:30
was that was. Yeah.
02:03:33
But I got to watch that again now, Spider man.
02:03:39
Yeah, OK. Do we have anything else to talk
02:03:43
about? I know Anthony, you took some
02:03:45
notes. Did do you have anything?
02:03:49
I was able to sneak them all in. I got them all in.
02:03:53
OK. So overall, we're all we're all
02:03:56
like very happy with this movie. OK, let's see.
02:04:02
I think coming up next, they have Iron Heart which comes out
02:04:07
in June and I'm kind of worried about that because there has
02:04:12
been almost no marketing for that show.
02:04:15
I feel like there's that. I feel like there's there's self
02:04:19
sabotaging it already. Really.
02:04:22
Yeah, I I feel that way and I don't know.
02:04:26
I don't know. We'll see when it comes out.
02:04:30
Very similar to Brave New Worlds.
02:04:32
OK, go ahead. Yeah, we'll see when it comes
02:04:35
out because it has to be good because it's going to set up, it
02:04:41
may set up the Armor Wars, which is supposed to come out next
02:04:48
year. So they have to be very, they
02:04:50
have to be very careful with with what's going on with this.
02:04:53
One well is I. Think Honor Awards isn't coming
02:04:56
out till 2027? OK, you get after next.
02:05:01
So is it Ironheart comic book already?
02:05:05
Yeah, like in the past. I mean, yeah.
02:05:11
'Cause people, I think people are forgetting that.
02:05:12
Depends on what you think is past, but yeah.
02:05:15
I think people are forgetting that yeah, because some some
02:05:18
things I'm singing they're saying is woke and I'm like,
02:05:21
well this was in the comic book, so it's not I don't even pay
02:05:24
attention to anybody. They're changing things like I'm
02:05:27
confused or like y'all forgetting what was in the comic
02:05:31
book. They.
02:05:33
Don't care or. Yeah, I was going to say they
02:05:36
don't care. Anything that serves up
02:05:39
controversy and gives them clicks and views.
02:05:43
Just like people. Just like people were mad.
02:05:46
Sam Wilson is not my Captain America in the comics, Yes, he
02:05:50
is. You know, it's like this.
02:05:53
This. Thing He has been in for a
02:05:54
second and realized I'm not worthy.
02:05:56
I mean like it. Was in I'm not worthy.
02:06:01
He was. Captain's not dead.
02:06:03
I'm just thinking. I just watched in game again so
02:06:09
you know. That's all my.
02:06:11
Students so so I mean literally last weekend, so you know, I
02:06:16
watched my favorite scene. OK, Well, I think we've touched
02:06:21
on pretty much everything that this movie talked about.
02:06:25
I know we didn't get into like a lot of detail detail, but I
02:06:28
mean, we talked, we we touched on the the important stuff
02:06:34
because this movie had a lot of layers to it had a lot going on.
02:06:39
And we could have sat here for probably another hour talking
02:06:43
about it. But as it is, we've been on here
02:06:45
for two hours, hasn't changed. So I think we're going to wrap
02:06:49
it up. Let's see, like I said, we have
02:06:53
Iron Heart coming out in June and then Fantastic Four is
02:06:57
coming out in July. So we will be covering those.
02:07:00
So look out for those, but for now, that is it for our show.
02:07:04
You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com.
02:07:07
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02:07:10
Hybrid. You can chat with us on our
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02:07:17
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02:07:20
We hope you join the conversation next time.
02:07:49
Music.