On this episode of the Fandom Hybrid Podcast, Hanako and Anthony discuss episode 5 of The Stand. We are now at the halfway point of the story, and we finally get a look at what Randall Flagg's followers are doing in New Vegas. Tom Cullen is successfully hiding in plain sight, while Dayna's ignorance of the definition of the phrase "low-key" raises a lot of questions. Harold takes in the "news" of Teddy's death with mixed reactions. Fran sets a plan into motion with unexpected results. Nadine tries to change her tune. Larry is forced to make some hard choices. Dayna comes face-to-face with the Dark Man.
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What's up hybrids? Welcome back to another episode
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of Venom hybrid podcast. This is hanako.
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And I'm here with Anthony and we are discussing episode 5 of The
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Stand. And, you know, I've been
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spending this evening editing the previous episode, where we
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discussed episodes, three and four.
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And there were some things that we talked about in that show
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that completely fell flat in this episode.
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And I just feel Some kind of way about it.
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What do you feel flat? So in the Shell that we did four
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episodes three and four we were talking about some of the events
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that happened and we talked about some of the characters and
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one of the characters that we brought up was Dana our
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introduction to her and how you know, she was a badass in this
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in that episode and you know, how they sent her to New Vegas
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is what they're calling me, but they sent her to New Vegas.
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To be one of the spies because you know, she's such a badass.
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She can handle herself. And I have to say I was so.
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So very disappointed with her character in this episode.
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It was. Now the thing is, I like the
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actress. I liked her when she was in
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Boulder. but when she got to New Vegas, almost from the
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beginning, just the way that they talk about her character
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life from the beginning, the first scene of the episode, we
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get Julie and Dana and Lloyd. And of course, Julie is the
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little cowgirl that we met in the last episode who first
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encounters Nick, and Tom before they leave to go to Boulder and
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she obviously ends up in Vegas, which we figured anywhere the
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Husky, right? So she comes down to find Dana
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where Dana has already. She's We made it to Vegas.
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She's already been put on a work crew and she goes to find her,
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you know, to ask if she's like, so word around town is you've
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been asking a lot of questions about flag, you know, about the
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big man and blah, blah blah. And you, you know, you've been
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making a, you know, making some noise and people people are
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saying you're being nosy or whatever.
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Immediately. I'm like, Dana supposed to be
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smarter than this. This is one of the reasons why
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they said to her, she's not supposed to draw attention. into
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herself and like, literally That was one of the things that they
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mentioned about her throughout the whole episode about her.
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She's asking a lot of questions and even when she meets Lloyd
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for the, for the first time and they're taking her up to their,
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you know, their Penthouse. She still asking questions a
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winner. What am I going to meet him?
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And that I and I was just like, I was literally holding my head
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in my hands this whole episode because I was like, one, you are
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not subtle in the least, right? So you have the worst control of
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facial expressions. I have ever seen on a character
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ever. Literally.
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They are not really good at reading people's expressions.
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Like they were halfway to paying attention to.
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Can I get that? But still, it's like she didn't
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even try. It's like, she looks scared.
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She looked nervous. She looked afraid of being found
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out. Like I said, she was too eager.
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She kept asking questions. She seemed uncomfortable the
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whole time. It just, I had so many hopes for
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her character when we were introduced to her in, like, from
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the beginning. Meaning of this episode all the
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way to the very end. I was just disappointed.
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I was just like Really? This is what y'all did with
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character her character was. It wasn't that different?
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Well, she's a little different in the books, right later.
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The book in the books. She like she what she basically.
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Well one. That's pretty most right beside
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a little bit longer. Shit.
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Actually worked her way up to being Lloyd's girlfriend.
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The the heart that Julie is playing now.
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She had worked her way up to being a lawyer's girlfriend, and
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literally had him. Fooled, had them all food for a
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long time. And then I think flag kind of
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found it out and told Lloyd, and then that was comes to sleeping
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with Lloyd in the book. She was like, yes, she's
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sleeping over the top. Right, right.
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And, you know, as she did it to the point where he was really
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pissed off, because she fooled him.
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Like he really thought she was into him.
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Yeah, house. The way that they did it with
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this character again. I know that there are some
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changes. Like I said, you know, Julie was
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lawyer's girl and then they did this whole thing where they were
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bringing her in for threesome. And then you know, the vibe of
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New Vegas was very almost hedonistic.
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Kind of almost. Yes, it was Sodom and Gomorrah.
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Yes, but you know what? One of the things about Hedonism
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is this supposed to be Like ultimate pleasure without pain.
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And there wasn't painting that because you had the fighting
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pits where they were literally hacking each other to death.
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So that's why I say almost, but yes, like Vegas, Randall, Flags,
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Vegas is the epitome of sex drugs, and rock, and roll, you
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know, you know, what? I thought of I thought this is
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basically Lloyd's wet dream because it seemed like
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everything was with Lloyd would want in A place right there.
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Seems to be something that would be like this.
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This is this was his vision of how everything should be.
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Alright, you know, when you know, Randall, just hope knock
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yourself out right now. I was not one of the thing.
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I know you're talking about her character.
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I'm very disappointed in Lloyds character.
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Like McGill. No for real.
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No for real would be like roll. Over in his grave, as in like,
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what did you guys do with this character?
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Like, well, he's one. He's younger.
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He's a younger version of the character and all of them.
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I mean, think about it in the original and in the books.
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Again, we're talking about a, we're talking about stories that
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are about 30 years apart. So wouldn't you excuse me?
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40 years, apart. I keep forgetting because I was
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17 when I started reading it. So but you know, you're talking
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about a book that takes place in like the 80s.
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So it was a little more toned down.
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As far as that, like, Randall Flagg was, he was the, he was
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the boogeyman, he was the guy who was getting them out of
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situations and, you know, there was a little bit of a hierarchy
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in the original version, but it wasn't.
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What it is now, you know, it kind of hinted at like the Vegas
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Vibe or the sexual Vibe, but it wasn't anything.
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So blatant as this iteration is I don't mind that as much.
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There's that that I'm totally okay with, I'm just not.
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Okay. With Lloyd being a clown, he was
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literally a clown and, and there's a way I would I think
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there's a way that you could could modernize Lloyd in a way
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where he's not a clown, you know, well, this list be so
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Lloyd is in a position where he is Flags right-hand, man, so,
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he's got the position and he's now got the ego to go along with
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it. And, you know, he's kind of
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drunk off of Power. I know.
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But I think I think Power. They act like clowns it will
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absolute power corrupts. Absolutely some common theme in
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this show, but we talked about it in every episode of every
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series, but I think it's probably more or less my own
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fault because I had, I had kind of put Lloyd in the category of
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people who were put in positions where they had no choice to to
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choose to be with Randall. Flag that maybe in him was a
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good person since you know, he didn't want to kill anyone in
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the robbery. He was upset when someone
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actually died, but I understand he would be into Fame.
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But like I said, I thought I was thinking there was no way they
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could have done the portrayal without him coming off as a
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clown. Like I say, it's probably have a
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little more dignity. This is a little bit more.
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Like you can still have the fun and beautiful.
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And guy but not be like, just, he just seemed to be just a
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complete, filthy nasty animal, who deserves whatever he gets
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right, you know, snorting coke and again you're impotent at the
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dimension of random. Is this?
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And you can't tell me that. Julie doesn't know what she's
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doing. She do she does.
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She's see our business is doing it on purpose.
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She was like, are you okay? And, you know, I said this, the
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last episode, I said, I absolutely love cat McNamara as
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Julie Lowry. And, you know, when we were
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introduced to her in the last episode, in this episode, I have
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to say, I think, Julie Lowry might be one of my favorite
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characters of hers ever now. Like, she no one can pull out
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for dignified skank, as well as Oh my gosh, he's doing such a
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great job of it and it is amazing.
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I'm loving it. Absolutely.
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Loving it and then her wardrobe, you know, she is like all
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glammed out and she is living it up for.
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She's like, okay if I have to suck up to the right-hand man to
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get this Glitz and glamour, I'm going to do it but I don't have
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to necessarily like it. So it's like she's sucking up to
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him and at the same time. I'm bringing him down like like
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when they were there on the bed. They were trying to make out
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with Dana and they're kissing and stuff.
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Is she said something about flag and he's like, you know, I don't
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like it when you say his name will we're about to fucking.
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She's told she turns the Dana but she's like, oh, I forgot.
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He doesn't like it when I say mister flags and and she
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literally turns this visit in his face like several times and
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he's just he can't get it up now and Goes to the bathroom and
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he's embarrassed and she is like silently cracking up, because
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this is so funny to her. It's funny.
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This is not going to happen. We can go shopping know.
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What's funny is. He says, he says, I told you
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this like five times and I'm thinking to myself, multiply
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that times for he's probably, he's probably told her about 20
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times. What I am absolute.
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Okay, so I talked about how much I didn't like the way they did,
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they Has character in this Julie's cares.
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It's absolutely loving. Absolutely love her.
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You you mentioned, you mentioned Julia's worship.
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Dana's were Drew was just as good as wardrobe was good to
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that. That last outfit she had on the
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glittery pants. Repair answer like they were
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dressed to the nines and New Vegas and they were in even even
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Lloyd's soup. Your head on it for fight with
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Pretty Fly. He was he was just looking, they
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were all looking good. But it was it was just Again,
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characters. That's one of the things that
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makes the stand the story that it is and I just felt like, they
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just felt like they did anything.
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Yeah, but Dana thing was, was a little strange and odd.
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I could have gotten over a little bit of it, except for her
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facial expressions. Her facial expressions took me
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out of the whole story like because it was such a
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distraction. I was like, why are you looking
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so obviously uncomfortable. Like you're supposed to be
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undercover. You're supposed to be blending
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in. You're not supposed to be making
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yourself stand out. You know, and it's just like it,
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just, it, it took me out of the story.
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It was odd because it was completely opposite in the book
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in the book. She didn't stand out and flag
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was the one that sent for her. So that it I wonder if it was
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just just a change because because they, I don't want to
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say that they, they don't. The try.
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It seems like the writing the story really for people who
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haven't read the book because that change ever.
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So subtle, just if you read the book, it would just make you
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think what what are they doing? Dana?
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You're at me. Like, that's not how she was
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supposed to be. Yeah.
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She she didn't stand out and I don't know.
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I don't know if they want because I'm trying.
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How am I supposed to do this? Like, remember, I think I said,
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how do they not have this flag? Not know they're coming.
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You know, that would be the question you would have watching
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this, but if you read the book, he knew they were coming.
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And they were they who knew they were and here is almost as if
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they're like, well, we're going to kind of make it look like he
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doesn't know but we in reality. No, he does know.
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Right? Whoo-hoo, the spots are and
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thing I have ever tried. Yeah, they're trying to I don't
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want to use words to Verde. Expectations again, but he kinda
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wanted to have it where with made her stand out.
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Was her asking questions as opposed to him already knowing?
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Yeah, I mean to build up to the climax of the episode, you know,
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when see go was he finally meets him because then he's like aha.
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I knew all along. I mean, as opposed to we already
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know he knew that mean this is like this is trying to mess with
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our expectations, but you didn't The way where you took away,
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everything that we kind of liked about Dana, you just kind of
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whitewashed it all the way and made you relevant.
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Right? The other thing since you since
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you mention about him knowing who the spies were, so the other
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thing that I did not like was, of course, once she goes once
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flag calls for her and they push her out the elevator basically
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at this point, you know, flag pretty much his figured out
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which We saw, he probably, he kind of sort of looked at her
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when they were there watching the fight, you know, he was
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making a speech to everyone and his face kind of singled her
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out. He looked at her and was still
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talking, right? Right.
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So we know that was only her sing.
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It like saying that he saw her, so she goes up to his Penthouse
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and he asks, her about the spies.
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He tells her that he knows that she's a spy.
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He's not, he's been watching her ever since she left Boulder.
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Okay, which that made sense? Because this is Randall Flagg.
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He's supposed to be all-knowing. And one of the things about him
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is that he couldn't see what was going on in Boulder.
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So, of course, he would see them once they come out.
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This is what I didn't like. So she sees Tom Cullen down in
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the pits. He's one of the people that
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cleans up the body parts in the dead bodies.
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After they do this little hacking fight that they, you
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know, that they do, the fighting ring, and she makes an excuse to
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go down into the pits, to talk to him because she wants to warn
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him about leaving. This bug me so much because The
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main things about the story. The original story is that the
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spies could not know who they who each other were, because
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Randall Flagg can read minds. So all he has to do is just look
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and see what you're thinking about or look, you know, look
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for the answers that he wants, and he be able to get it.
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That was one of the big things about sending them separately
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and them, not knowing who the other person.
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One was. Yeah, and it seemed like a
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failure. I hope her part to kind of
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single him out for something. Right?
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I mean, and and like you say that, I don't know.
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I don't understand why they wrote that in there.
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I don't understand why that was part of the story and why should
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have him a note likewise, ER, give him a note and he can't
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read. And, I understand that she might
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not know that he, she doesn't. She doesn't, she doesn't know
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him, really. She has seen.
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Him, but she doesn't know him. But again, this is this is the
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part where I say that was a change to the original story
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that you didn't have to make, didn't have to make.
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And even in the contest, even in the context of this story.
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It's not even important. It's not even, it's not even
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relevant. Like, what have we gained by her
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going to him? We as the people watching, as
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the viewers, we know who he is. We know that he's there.
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You already shown this that he's Is there.
00:19:02
So what was the purpose of that whole scene other than to, to
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let us know that now Julie and Lloyd have seen the last person
00:19:11
that she was talking to, so right.
00:19:14
It starts making inquiries. Well, I need to know who the
00:19:16
first spy is. They'll be like, oh, well, she
00:19:18
was talking to this dude, and she was making it very, you
00:19:22
know, she was being very adamant.
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We write it was again, so out of character for who Dana was
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supposed to be. Yeah.
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And from from the then seems like something really stupid to
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have to write into the show to, to set us up for Randall, trying
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to figure out, figure out, who the third is five years.
00:19:46
It's just, I don't know. You would think they could do
00:19:50
better. They really could be better
00:19:52
without making Dana's character appear even worse than she is,
00:19:57
right? And we've seen her in a pressure
00:19:59
situation, make really good decisions.
00:20:01
Asians, you know, we've seen her in a life-or-death situation
00:20:07
making good decisions. So all the decisions she made in
00:20:10
this, since she went to Vegas seem to be dubious at best,
00:20:16
don't dump dubious at best them at the worst.
00:20:22
And any other the last thing with Dana is when she she thinks
00:20:28
she's killed. Randall Flagg, you know, she
00:20:30
take some scissors and shears. Was it into his neck?
00:20:33
He pretends like he's dead and he gets up and he still asking
00:20:37
her. Who's the third spot?
00:20:38
Who's the third spot? That doesn't fit with what we're
00:20:43
supposed to know about flag because flag, went need to ask
00:20:46
her. He could have tried to read her
00:20:48
mind and then the way that they set this up with her going to
00:20:51
meet Tom. He would have seen that.
00:20:55
So none of that made sense from a story point of view.
00:20:59
It just didn't flow, right? Right.
00:21:02
Well, Let's give them the benefit of a doubt.
00:21:11
I'm getting antsy steer from Hanukkah.
00:21:14
The main one always talking about, we are giving the writers
00:21:18
too much credit. And now you want to give them
00:21:20
some credit. Let's give them a this.
00:21:22
This this is, let's try this. Try this.
00:21:28
Let's just the same. Let's say he can read minds, but
00:21:33
Dana doesn't know, Tom's name. She went after nose.
00:21:38
Now. She'll all he would have to do
00:21:40
is see his face. Well all he's seeing, if he read
00:21:44
her mind all he would see with she was asking asking for a
00:21:47
bracelet that she lost and then he was see Tom's response and
00:21:51
how he is and everybody calling him dumb it all he has to all he
00:21:55
would have to do literally is Go Ask.
00:21:58
Okay where the dummies. Well good, but if you think
00:22:03
about this, if you see did you talk to him if They assume that
00:22:08
that may have been the spot. Maybe you tried to read his
00:22:11
mind. And, you know, Tom's brain.
00:22:14
Is he going to be just this going to be a mess?
00:22:17
Anyway, so this say this, this is a, the Raptors are just
00:22:24
seeing Tom, Cullen is so dumb. That Randall reads his mind and
00:22:30
doesn't realize. He's a spy.
00:22:32
So that's why he stumped. He stepped because he can't
00:22:36
figure it out. Because he can't really read Tom
00:22:39
Collins mine. And when you tries to read his
00:22:41
mind, his mind is a mess. So he doesn't dig any deeper.
00:22:44
He can't possibly be the spot. He's already assumed that
00:22:48
they're all smart because he's like, oh, yeah, you got the old
00:22:51
lady outside the town and you know, yeah.
00:22:55
Y'all had to staggered entry. Right?
00:22:58
So he's ready when issues come into contact with.
00:23:02
So you probably use like what? Maybe they haven't spoken to
00:23:06
each other and don't know. We took, you know, have have
00:23:09
actually talked to each other since since they've been there,
00:23:12
then he would just be like, okay.
00:23:13
Well, it can't it's not this guy because he's an idiot.
00:23:17
That's how overconfident Randall.
00:23:18
Flagg. Is this, how cocky he is.
00:23:21
He's like he just glanced at times of mine.
00:23:24
No, no possible way and moved on to the next.
00:23:27
That's why he stumped. He doesn't make any sense to him
00:23:31
and they're not going to figure it out because there's no
00:23:34
possible way. They would have sent someone as
00:23:36
dumb as time. I'm coming to to spy on them and
00:23:40
let me just let me just make it clear.
00:23:42
We're not calling Tom Cullen. Dumb where it words.
00:23:45
No. No, we're not calling him dumb
00:23:49
recalling. We're saying with the people in
00:23:52
context think of him. Yeah.
00:23:54
I just wanted if there's something completely different.
00:23:57
Yeah. I'm glad you made that clear.
00:23:59
I don't think Tom Cullen is dumb.
00:24:01
That's that's not even what we're talking about is is how
00:24:04
he's perceived by the Leave the bastards who are running lost
00:24:10
Vegas, where that lady at the front desk, when he was checking
00:24:14
in on, exactly reach through the TV and punch her between her
00:24:19
Escape. Well, hey, it's so bad.
00:24:21
The guard was like, wait, is the guards?
00:24:23
Both of them? Like, wait a second.
00:24:25
We don't treat any mood is coming here.
00:24:27
They're free wheel like that, no matter who they are.
00:24:31
Yeah. I mean, I give them credit for
00:24:33
that because they saw enough to her her place in sorry.
00:24:36
No. No.
00:24:37
We Just not gonna throw him in the slave pain because you don't
00:24:40
like them, right? Yeah.
00:24:41
I'm saying. So I'll give him credit for
00:24:43
that. Yeah, but you know because that
00:24:46
they basically saying, no, no, no, you can't just no, we're
00:24:50
just talking to treat people any kind of way that come here.
00:24:54
So, I'm okay. At that.
00:24:56
That was like the one bright spot in the whole episode.
00:25:00
When these two random security people like, no, no, no.
00:25:05
No, that's not what we're going to do with him.
00:25:07
Anyone who comes here with their Free Will is treated with
00:25:10
respect. They're, they're, they're
00:25:11
considered a citizen. That's right, and I'm okay with
00:25:16
that. But we are not calling Tom
00:25:18
coming down that, that is the perspective of the people who
00:25:23
don't know any better. Yeah.
00:25:26
Okay. I just have one more thing to
00:25:27
say about Vegas. And then we can go back to
00:25:29
Boulder cook because I mean, really Vegas, this episode was
00:25:32
Danna Lloyd, and Julie for the most part. yeah, but We're
00:25:40
seeing more and more of Randall, Flagg, and Alexander Skarsgard
00:25:47
as Randall. Flagg is like, probably the best
00:25:53
casting decision. They did for this show.
00:25:56
I think he's perfect. I keep thinking of all the times
00:26:01
when he was playing Eric and Trueblood right, where he went
00:26:04
from soft, sweet and caring, Eric to I'm Going to rip your
00:26:10
head off. Exactly.
00:26:11
There it is. He was doing it and I'm like,
00:26:14
wow, that this guy is, he's incredible.
00:26:18
Incredible. And I mean he he has that kind
00:26:22
of Charisma that you think of with Randall Flagg like yes,
00:26:28
Randall Flagg is supposed to be terrifying.
00:26:30
You know again, he's the boogie man.
00:26:32
He's the dark man. He's the walking dude.
00:26:35
He's supposed to be all of these terrifying things, but He has to
00:26:40
be charismatic to because you can't be terrifying and bring
00:26:44
people over to your side willingly and they're, and
00:26:48
they're happy to be there. No, you have to be a charismatic
00:26:52
person. And he exudes that in this
00:26:55
character, but then when, when he gets dark, he gets dark, like
00:27:03
there's nothing. In the original miniseries.
00:27:09
Randall Flagg to me was more comical and I don't mean that in
00:27:16
a good way. It was like, very cheesy.
00:27:19
Hmm, you know, I mean, it was okay by early 90 standards, but
00:27:23
when you go back and you look at the series, that's one of the
00:27:26
things about the series. I'm like, oh, if I could just
00:27:29
take, you know, certain things out of the original miniseries
00:27:32
and change it. That's like one of the main
00:27:35
things because that Roundup. It was not scary to me.
00:27:38
He was cheesy. Hmm morning.
00:27:40
And it was more comical, more comical, this version of Randall
00:27:45
Flagg. He has some humor, but it comes
00:27:50
with that Charisma. It comes with that like deadpan
00:27:53
humor, and he's kind of, he's kind of sarcastic, and he's kind
00:27:56
of a smartass. But again, he's very he's very
00:28:01
approachable. At the beginning.
00:28:04
Hmm. And he draws people to him and
00:28:08
then it gets to the point where he reaches like, with his
00:28:12
people, kind of like Messiah status, but one of the best
00:28:19
parts of the casting of the show, yeah.
00:28:22
Yeah because he's like that in that they cable series big
00:28:26
little lies. He's an abusive husband, and he
00:28:30
does that he's really sweet and Extreme.
00:28:34
He has this Darkness to them that just comes out.
00:28:38
Yeah, in a sec. He's really good at that.
00:28:40
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:42
All right. Let's go to the boulder free
00:28:44
zone. So we're going to we're going to
00:28:48
start from the end of last episode.
00:28:50
So the end of last episode we saw Harold and Nadine, they were
00:28:55
finding explosives to kind of put their plan together for
00:28:59
murdering the boulder, five and mother Abigail per row.
00:29:03
Randall Flags orders and they get caught by Teddy, who is
00:29:06
Harold's friend, and they being shoots him and he dies.
00:29:10
So we pick up in this episode with Nadine and Harrell.
00:29:15
And they are basically taking off their clothes because I, you
00:29:19
know, there's blood on the clothes and they've they've done
00:29:22
something with Teddys body and Harold is, you know, freaking
00:29:28
out a little bit and they'd he's trying to calm him and keep him
00:29:31
together and We find out is that they have taken Teddy's body to
00:29:37
the amphitheater and set them up in a chair and made it look like
00:29:41
a suicide. Now, I don't know about y'all
00:29:48
but one they made him look like a suicide when they didn't shot
00:29:53
him in the chest. So they moved his body into the
00:29:57
chair at the Amphitheatre to make it look like he committed
00:30:02
suicide. There's no blood.
00:30:04
Splatter. There's no, you know, it's just,
00:30:07
it was one of those things where it is.
00:30:09
There's no CSI. There.
00:30:11
There's, there's no Crossing. Syd, I mean Larry Larry thought
00:30:16
about it, he was like, oh, that there is, I fill this hole.
00:30:19
So I feel that he's dubious of the whole thing's dubious about
00:30:23
the whole thing, but he's about this doesn't seem right?
00:30:26
And then so what happens is they still send someone out to look
00:30:31
for Harold and of course, they find Harold and he breaks the
00:30:34
news to Harrell about or, you know, will somebody else broke
00:30:38
the news? He's there to confirm that Teddy
00:30:41
is dead and how Harold has he has a good reaction at first,
00:30:48
you know, he's kind of shaking, he's upset, he turns and he
00:30:51
looks like he's about to cry and then he says He took the
00:30:58
coward's way out, and then immediately goes into, you know,
00:31:03
what he was talking about building a movie theater with
00:31:06
all the movies. We found in the homes.
00:31:08
Maybe I can do that now like and language looking at him like,
00:31:13
yeah. Okay.
00:31:14
Before that, though. He looked like he turned and
00:31:18
tried to summon tears and the tears are not coming.
00:31:22
So he decided, okay. This is not going to work.
00:31:24
So when we go the other way, you know, But you can see that Larry
00:31:29
was just like yeah. What is Love you Till There?
00:31:33
Larry wasn't feeling it like this?
00:31:35
Some about this in, right? He can't he doesn't seem to be
00:31:40
like really upset. But at the same time he doesn't
00:31:44
seem to care either. I think well, I will say this.
00:31:52
Looking at it from an outsider's, point of view.
00:31:54
Like if I didn't already know what was going on.
00:31:56
I would probably look at Harold's reaction as one
00:32:00
everybody already knows. He's kind of sort of he's kind
00:32:03
of sort of an introvert and not very socially Adept.
00:32:10
So I would kind of look at it as maybe he's processing it and
00:32:15
he's processing it differently than other people would process
00:32:18
it. I would probably look at it.
00:32:21
If he's in shock because sometimes when people, you know,
00:32:25
when people deal with that, they don't know how to react.
00:32:29
It's kind of like one of those things where it's like there is
00:32:33
a brains of expected reactions. It seems as though Larry is is
00:32:40
looking like he's not showing anything in their brains are
00:32:44
reactions isn't as in. We expect you two to be either
00:32:50
upset. To be even if you're a person
00:32:53
who was somewhat aloof, like Carol D is, they're still going
00:32:56
to react a certain way, but hair is reaction is so against
00:33:00
whatever should be on that range that instinctively Larry's like.
00:33:05
Cuz you know, there is good at reading people.
00:33:07
He instinctively was like, you the look on his face.
00:33:11
Like I don't know about this cat but I feel like when it's still
00:33:18
would be still would be on that. And still be like, oh, They were
00:33:21
Harold is a little bit different.
00:33:23
So he's going to take a little bit differently.
00:33:25
That was his friend. Larry's like yeah, that was his
00:33:28
friend. But his reaction ain't on the
00:33:31
spectrum of expected Reactions where he first reacted when he
00:33:36
first talked the stew. I felt like he had an
00:33:40
appropriate reaction and then it I think it was when he turned
00:33:44
around and then turn back and immediately went into the movie
00:33:47
theater thing. That was the thing that would
00:33:50
have said that would Have been like okay, something's not right
00:33:53
about him. Yeah, because it looked like he
00:33:55
was going to cry and he couldn't pull up the tears.
00:33:59
So he went to plan B. I think he had the tears at the
00:34:04
beginning. No, he turned around almost like
00:34:09
to do more. He started out.
00:34:12
I agree with you. He started out like he was
00:34:14
going. He looked like he was going to
00:34:15
be sad and upset and he turned around to close the deal.
00:34:20
And the tears didn't come out, right?
00:34:23
Hey, you like The Herald mode which was very detached being.
00:34:28
Yeah, whatever, you know, so he was talking about opening a
00:34:32
movie theater. Maybe I can do that.
00:34:34
Yeah, because he's natural reaction was with Nadine.
00:34:38
When they were changing clothes. He was that would have been if
00:34:41
you had acted that way. They would have Larry would have
00:34:44
accepted that because that's how you truly feels, right?
00:34:47
A little weird, a little And you know, and like what is this
00:34:52
really mean? And you know, I'm kind of upset
00:34:55
about it, but I don't really kind of know how I should really
00:34:57
feel about it. No, because it's my fault, but
00:35:01
then he didn't want to show that he did.
00:35:02
It seem like he was overthinking the situation and I think Larry
00:35:07
picked up on that but I agree with you.
00:35:08
He started out like looking like okay, I guess.
00:35:12
Yeah, this this is my friend and I'm sick of seems like that was
00:35:15
we know that was your friend. Y'all are really close, but then
00:35:18
you turned around and it's like He was thinking about okay, I
00:35:22
guess I should cry. Okay, that's not working.
00:35:28
It says round. Oh, yeah, you know he was gonna
00:35:31
have because this because that was when it seemed like he was
00:35:34
formulating an idea. And I think that is related to
00:35:38
the bomb. You know, if you've got in in in
00:35:43
his memory, I'm going to show a movie in the Amphitheatre and
00:35:47
blow everybody up. Yeah, I think that's that's why
00:35:50
he went into that mode of. I have an idea because you know,
00:35:55
he is who years? Yeah.
00:35:57
Yeah, but so later on he confronts mating about shooting
00:36:04
Teddy. He was like, you didn't have to
00:36:05
kill him. He was like, I was his friend, I
00:36:07
could have, you know, I could have talked to him, I could have
00:36:10
You know, I don't know if he thought he might be able to make
00:36:14
him understand or if he was just, you know, would have found
00:36:18
a way to deflect, but he was like, I could have handled this,
00:36:20
I could have handled this, he's upset.
00:36:23
And at first Nadine, seems not necessarily condescending to
00:36:29
him, but she's basically, like, look, we're here for a purpose.
00:36:32
We have to do what he tells us to do, and that's it, that was
00:36:37
going to get in the way, and he goes to grab.
00:36:40
Are around her neck and she uses that to kind of, you know, do
00:36:46
her little seduction thing, you know, sweet-talk him.
00:36:50
This is what we're supposed to do and blah, blah blah.
00:36:53
And you know, then we're going to go to him and you know, she,
00:36:58
you know, give them a hand job or whatever and then as they're
00:37:01
getting ready to leave. Here Comes Frannie to find him
00:37:08
like someone's told her told her that Harold was at the school.
00:37:11
So Nadine highs while she talks to Harold and she's being like
00:37:18
really overly friendly with him, you know, she's inviting him to
00:37:22
dinner and she's like, yeah. I saw, I heard about Teddy.
00:37:26
I'm so sorry. Why don't you come to dinner?
00:37:28
And it's just like, really awkward like it.
00:37:30
Even at one point. They were standing so close
00:37:32
together. Look, like they were about to
00:37:34
kiss. I was Like what is going on in
00:37:36
this scene? It's just weird, you know, but
00:37:41
then immediately after that, she goes to Larry's house.
00:37:44
And she's basically like hey, we invited Harold to dinner for
00:37:48
tomorrow night and I need you to go Snoop in his house while he's
00:37:51
at my house, what? It's like.
00:37:54
Yeah, like the worst the worst idea of all ideas.
00:37:58
But then when she said she had she was like, you know, I'm just
00:38:00
kind of worried. I feel like he was going to do
00:38:02
something. He she was like, I know, I know
00:38:05
it sounds ridiculous. And he was like, nope.
00:38:07
It doesn't. I've been thinking the same
00:38:08
thing and I was like, yeah, like I felt something when I first
00:38:12
met him and then Joe and I was like, oh, yeah.
00:38:15
So at this point, you kind of Wonder, is this all of them
00:38:19
really being smart and piecing this all together, or if you
00:38:23
know the powers that control mother Abigail or if God is kind
00:38:27
of planting those ideas in their heads and making them.
00:38:30
Because other than that you really Okay, I was gonna save
00:38:34
this. Well, I think, I know, I think I
00:38:37
know you were gonna go. I think, I think, I think the
00:38:46
these group of this group of people were chosen for a
00:38:50
particular reason, for different reasons mostly is because of
00:38:56
their instincts, you know, Stu has good instincts.
00:38:59
He's good with people. Larry has good instincts, he is
00:39:03
Good at reading people. Same thing with Nick, Nick has
00:39:09
that ability to kind of see people for who they really are.
00:39:14
And I think that is something that is sort of like this Common
00:39:17
Thread. I don't think because a lot of
00:39:24
I'm trying not to get off way off base here.
00:39:28
But a lot of what most of us tend to understand about the
00:39:33
Christian God is that he has given us Freewill like not since
00:39:39
the Old Testament, you know, the in and he doesn't give his
00:39:42
Visions. He doesn't kind of tell us what
00:39:45
to do. He kind of gives us the choices.
00:39:48
He gives us the options and these people all have Choices,
00:39:52
they all have options and it's up to them to make the choice in
00:39:56
what they do. Like Larry is presented with
00:39:59
choices and you chooses. You know, what do you want to
00:40:02
do? Same thing with what's-her-name.
00:40:06
She didn't have to go to a, Larry to break into Harold's
00:40:09
house. But that's what she chose to do.
00:40:12
And even when, you know, you haven't gotten to that yet.
00:40:16
But when movie Abigail goes off on Nick, about the spies, that
00:40:21
was a choice that they made and they have to deal with the
00:40:23
consequences. That's where all of this is
00:40:26
about. These people are making choices
00:40:28
and we have to do with consequence.
00:40:30
So I don't think it's as much as God giving giving her no
00:40:35
knowledge or giving her vision about something.
00:40:38
It's just that she's choosing to follow her Instinct and same
00:40:42
thing with Larry. There's something not right with
00:40:45
Harold right now and they they have this desire to figure out
00:40:48
what it is and they're making choices.
00:40:51
Towards that end. Does that make sense?
00:40:54
It does it does? Yeah, but while we're on that
00:40:58
subject, so I'm going to talk about my other, my second
00:41:01
character gripe for this episode.
00:41:04
Franny Franny. I love that girl.
00:41:11
Oh. Let's talk about and this is
00:41:15
another recurring theme in our podcast.
00:41:19
Let's talk about not being able to read the room with Miss Fran
00:41:26
goldsman. So Franny goes to invite Harrell
00:41:33
over for dinner. She's being exceedingly
00:41:35
friendly. He comes over for dinner the
00:41:39
next night. She's dressed up.
00:41:42
She's lay it out, you know, nice dishes.
00:41:45
She's being overly friendly. Overly chatty.
00:41:48
She gives Howard a hug when he gets there.
00:41:51
First of all, that's anybody's first clue, that something
00:41:59
suspicious is going on because she has not hugged Harold ever,
00:42:05
ever in the court. No, not ever.
00:42:09
Okay, second. You've spent most of the first
00:42:15
four episodes. Being such a bitch to him,
00:42:20
correction correction back before the left.
00:42:25
The hometown. When they were talking in the
00:42:28
house. She did.
00:42:29
Let her head on you. Okay, one moment.
00:42:37
She did seek comfort that but try to comfort him.
00:42:41
One head not does not a friend make, so then they're doing all
00:42:50
of this talking and they're doing all of this chattering and
00:42:54
he's talking, you know, hair was just running off at the mouth
00:42:58
doing this thing again. If you can't tell that Harold is
00:43:00
being fake, something is wrong. I think Stu is just giving him,
00:43:06
you know, the benefit of the doubt because still is oblivious
00:43:09
to Fran he's playing. So he doesn't know that Larry is
00:43:12
searching Harold's house. While Harold is that there's and
00:43:16
also students giving him the benefit of the doubt because he
00:43:19
just lost his best friend. Right?
00:43:21
So students, taking the position that we're doing this to kind of
00:43:24
help come for him and let him reassuring him and let him know
00:43:28
that were there for him. If we need if he needs us,
00:43:31
right? So they do you do.
00:43:32
Doesn't know what a friend is doing, right?
00:43:34
And then here's what frame really messes up because first
00:43:38
of all, she's kind of sort of zoning in and out of this
00:43:41
conversation. So you see parts of the
00:43:44
conversation where Harold is talking and she seems really
00:43:46
engaged overly engaged again. She's not getting faking.
00:43:50
She's being like overly everything at this point and
00:43:54
then other parts of the conversation she's kind of zoned
00:43:57
out. She's kind of like you can look
00:43:59
and see that something else is on her mind or that she's Into
00:44:02
the conversation. So how about starts telling this
00:44:06
story about when he was eight or nine years old and his sister,
00:44:12
Amy and friend, they take them to the carnival and, you know,
00:44:17
he's telling them about he's telling still about them playing
00:44:20
games and about this ice cream thing.
00:44:22
He's like, yeah, we went to go get ice cream.
00:44:24
And this guy is looking at me, you know, kind of weird and
00:44:27
their friend walks in, you know, he sees that face and he ends up
00:44:31
giving her three ice cream. Ames and one of them had
00:44:34
chocolate on it as she gives me the chocolate and he looks at
00:44:37
her and he's like, right, you remember that story?
00:44:39
You remember she was like, well, I guess I just felt bad because,
00:44:42
you know, he gave us the ice creams for free and Harold was
00:44:45
like, yeah, but you know what? That didn't happen because I
00:44:49
wasn't there and as soon as he said that I was like, oops.
00:44:55
And still is just there. Looking like he doesn't
00:44:57
understand and she was like, what he was like, I wasn't
00:45:01
there. That didn't happen.
00:45:02
And she's like, yes it did. He said, no.
00:45:06
He said, you never took me anywhere.
00:45:08
You never invited me to go anywhere.
00:45:10
He was like, my sister came home and told me that story.
00:45:14
He was like, you know, and then he goes into this little thing
00:45:18
like, literally, at this point, friend should be able to read
00:45:22
the room. Harold's voice is almost hostile
00:45:28
at this point. He's like, yeah, I just sat here
00:45:30
and told a big fat ass lie about you being nice to me and you
00:45:34
didn't even like, you didn't even catch it, that it wasn't
00:45:37
true, you know, and then he starts talking about his sister
00:45:42
and how everybody loves Amy. He was like, you know, I'm kind
00:45:45
of glad my parents went with her because they wouldn't have been
00:45:48
able to survive without her. And instead of hearing the
00:45:53
bitterness in his voice about being the odd child out Francis.
00:46:00
I miss her so much. Are you stupid?
00:46:06
Do you not hear the hostility in voice?
00:46:09
When he talks about his sister and then he just called you out
00:46:14
for lying and then you take that whole conversation and
00:46:19
everything that he just said about how his parents made him
00:46:23
feel and how his sister made him feel and you make it about her.
00:46:29
I was like, I was like, you know what?
00:46:32
Hair, just go ahead and blow the house up now just like so, Our
00:46:40
character is supposed to be smarter than that if I may not
00:46:45
be remembering this, but I thought that was a story that
00:46:50
that her sister was telling people that was it wasn't true.
00:46:54
But she was telling people that story to make Fran the good.
00:46:59
And I know I think that the story was this happened with Amy
00:47:04
and friend. When they went to the carnival,
00:47:07
she friend was able to get like the free ice cream.
00:47:09
Whatever, but Harold, wasn't there with them.
00:47:13
Hey, hold him. The story about what happened at
00:47:16
the carnival. Okay, but I thought Amy was
00:47:19
going around telling people that the story that she was lying
00:47:22
about Harold being there. And that the story had been told
00:47:27
so many times that it's has sort of become true.
00:47:31
I don't, I don't remember maybe that maybe that happened in the
00:47:35
book of the original, but that's not the way it was being.
00:47:38
Yeah, that's not the way it was being towed.
00:47:39
Told this time and it just don't use why I brought it up was if
00:47:44
I'm remembering that correctly. Either from the book of this
00:47:47
miniseries that for the original miniseries.
00:47:50
That's another change that there.
00:47:53
I guess they're change. Wouldn't be so bad because
00:47:56
there's a shows, how friend wasn't really paying attention
00:48:00
to that would have been in the original miniseries because the
00:48:03
way it was in the original miniseries, like Fran was never
00:48:08
mean to Harrell like, She might have had a minor annoyance about
00:48:12
him having like the Schoolboy Crush, but that's one that I
00:48:15
mean, first of all friend was played by Molly Ringwald.
00:48:19
I don't know if Molly Ringwald has it in her to be a mean hair.
00:48:24
But her version of Frannie was like, the All-American Girl.
00:48:28
Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:30
Nice, you know, gives people a chance, like, she was really
00:48:34
sweet to Harold. Even though Harold was a little
00:48:37
bit weird. She was never mean.
00:48:39
Two hands ever mean to him. So even the story, he told about
00:48:43
the nail about her tilling, you know, she didn't even remember
00:48:48
that, right? Tell him to put, you know, those
00:48:50
reject Slater's on the nail and then I said something about it
00:48:54
and she's like, oh, yeah, I remember so is it was just one
00:48:59
of those and I was just like Franny is supposed to be smarter
00:49:05
than that because like how do you go from treating somebody
00:49:08
like there? The bottom of your shoe, like,
00:49:11
literally that's how she treats her.
00:49:13
For the most part to all of a sudden, you're Chatty Cathy and
00:49:17
inviting him over and giving him hugs and blah blah.
00:49:22
No Harold's not stupid. That's that's the one thing that
00:49:26
she does under it. I mean, If he hasn't shown you
00:49:31
from the beginning, how smart and intuitive he is, you know,
00:49:37
he was the one that came up with the plan to leave Ogunquit and
00:49:40
to go to the CDC. He was the one who literally
00:49:45
saved her life. He was the one who got her to
00:49:48
Boulder. Safely Harold is not stupid by
00:49:51
any stretch of the imagination. But yet she's treating him like
00:49:55
he is And I have a problem with that because it's like, she's
00:50:01
not supposed to be that dense. And that's how she's coming
00:50:05
across in this episode, like just under, I don't know.
00:50:12
It just it bugs me so much. Well, obvious characters in
00:50:18
Boulder have made poor decisions.
00:50:21
Think of the spies was a poor decision, having Larry break
00:50:26
into his house, you know, was a poor decision, right?
00:50:30
Especially considering that Harold has surveillance camera.
00:50:34
It was cameras and he's a lot more and of course, they don't
00:50:38
know this. But this is a, this is a guy who
00:50:41
is planning murders, not just made murder.
00:50:45
He is planning murders. And and my thing is, if you
00:50:49
suspect this about him, do you think they would be easy to
00:50:55
figure it out? Like he's just going to leave
00:50:57
stuff lying around for you to find, you know, and I don't
00:51:02
know. I think I think I think we're
00:51:05
bothers me and maybe you also is that everyone seems to be under
00:51:11
estimating Harold. And like if you kick a person,
00:51:16
you know, as much as he's been kicked and he's still surviving
00:51:22
like he's one of the last people left on the earth.
00:51:25
He's gonna feel a little bit more power, you know, especially
00:51:30
after being beat down by that dude was side of the road.
00:51:34
He's not going to be so easily taken down anymore.
00:51:38
Right? What's the right though?
00:51:39
Fran? This this?
00:51:41
I don't know at the meeting when they were talking about what
00:51:46
they should tell, the people about the crucified guy.
00:51:48
That's when I realized that her character was not going to be
00:51:52
Was it was not going to be written very well when she was
00:51:55
like, oh, you know, because we're Larry say, I mean, am I
00:52:00
the only guy who saw that guy's eyes turned black and she's
00:52:04
like, who knows what we saw, you know, and I'm thinking myself,
00:52:08
really sees season complete and other than that.
00:52:11
Now, so, yes, she would be stupid enough to tell Larry, to
00:52:15
breaking it, to Harold's house and try to figure out what's
00:52:19
going on. Even though they have no idea
00:52:20
what they're looking for. It's different if you know,
00:52:22
You're looking for. If you know, it's again to try
00:52:25
to find but you have no idea. I just kind of think that he's
00:52:29
doing something. Well, maybe we can bring this
00:52:31
house and get a clue. That's not specific enough that
00:52:36
isn't and as soon as this skipping here, soon as Larry
00:52:39
broke into the house, where you guys have been locked door and
00:52:43
he can get in. You know, what?
00:52:45
I guess. I'm not going to find what I
00:52:46
need. Get out of here.
00:52:48
And let me also mention. This is off the subject.
00:52:52
But I always have an issue when they put Brothers in this
00:52:56
situation with Larry because he's black.
00:52:59
Why, because what? He has experience with breaking,
00:53:02
the people's houses. Can we can we not can we not do
00:53:08
that? You like I do have an issue with
00:53:11
subliminal stuff. I know I'm being overly
00:53:13
sensitive to this but that sends out your terrible.
00:53:17
Subliminal message to everyone watching this show that you can
00:53:21
ago. Going to recruit the black man
00:53:24
to break into somebody's house, and then he don't even do it.
00:53:27
Right. He's got the flashlight shining,
00:53:30
that goes around the house, do, okay, make it any more obvious
00:53:36
that you've never broken into anybody's house.
00:53:39
But let me stop. I just want to say no, you were
00:53:42
right. Appreciate them.
00:53:45
Have the black man breaking in some white boys house because
00:53:48
then all of a sudden you seen that this subliminal message, To
00:53:53
us that. That's, that's what we do.
00:53:55
He got on the hoodie has, I'm sorry.
00:53:57
I'm sitting here watching on the screen right now.
00:53:59
He's breaking into the house. He's got a hood.
00:54:01
Onto walking around with a flashlight.
00:54:04
Come on, guys. We got to do better.
00:54:06
I thought that too. I really did because I was like,
00:54:09
okay, you could have gone to. You could have gone to Glenn.
00:54:12
You know, Glenn is not Glenn is not a 70 year old man in this
00:54:15
version. No, he's not, you know, he could
00:54:19
have done it but Anyway, so as you said, as Larry is clumsily
00:54:27
going through Harold's house. He goes upstairs.
00:54:30
He opens up a drawer. He finds a shirt that he
00:54:35
remembers Nadine wearing and this shirt is in Harold's drawer
00:54:40
and he gets a call on the radio from France, saying hey, he's on
00:54:45
his way back, get out of there now.
00:54:46
And like literally Harold is running to the house because at
00:54:49
this point Harold his kind of Get out.
00:54:52
Something is going, you know, something's not, right.
00:54:57
So he's literally running into his house.
00:54:59
Like he's expecting to catch someone there.
00:55:02
Okay, and as he's coming in the door now, or as Larry closes the
00:55:09
drawer, he knocks over a book and it knocks over the chess
00:55:12
pieces that are on Harold's dresser.
00:55:17
So he tries to put the pieces back in the right place.
00:55:23
So this is Harold. We're talking about Harold who
00:55:26
is meticulous Harold, who is probably a little OCD Harold,
00:55:31
who shined his shoes and combed his hair and made sure
00:55:34
everything was in place before he went to go ask this girl who
00:55:38
literally kicked him out of her house that.
00:55:41
Yeah. Hey.
00:55:42
You want a ride? Cross-country with me, you know,
00:55:44
he's very meticulous about his things.
00:55:46
You can even see that in the house that he's staying in,
00:55:49
everything is in place. Nothing was out of place.
00:55:53
The door that he needed, secure was locked something.
00:55:57
I should have told you. Don't Snoop around here, but he
00:56:02
knocks the stuff over. He gets out just in time Harold
00:56:05
comes into the room. He looks around, and he looks at
00:56:08
the, he looks at the chessboard and he noticed his one of his
00:56:15
chess pieces is facing the wrong direction.
00:56:22
Meticulous about that kind of stuff.
00:56:24
They notice stuff like that. Okay?
00:56:26
Props to Larry, forgiving Every piece back to exactly where it
00:56:32
was. Except the night.
00:56:36
Yeah, the night facing the wrong direction, but props to him
00:56:39
forgetting every piece because they could have been missed but
00:56:42
he saw it. He put everything back exactly
00:56:45
where it was. I used to be a chess player
00:56:47
because he probably was like, okay this needs to go here blah
00:56:50
blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean literally that, that that
00:56:53
can be the only thing because somebody like me who does not
00:56:56
play chess. I would have just looked at it
00:56:59
board and be like, fuck it. I'm doing because we did.
00:57:04
But at least he also sought a Deans shirt, which that's going
00:57:09
to come back up. Yeah, it's going to give him a
00:57:11
clue, especially considering the conversation that hair earlier.
00:57:15
We'll get to that, too. But then Back to the dinner
00:57:20
before Harold leaves after he has this little meltdown about
00:57:24
Amy or whatever. He excuses himself from the
00:57:28
table, to go to the restroom, and he goes upstairs, where the
00:57:32
restroom is supposed to be. First of all, you want a
00:57:34
two-story house in a luxury subdivision because I saw what
00:57:40
the houses looked like. When they Dean walked out,
00:57:43
looking for Joe early in the episode.
00:57:45
You can't tell me there's not a powder room on the on the
00:57:48
bottom. For why would you send him
00:57:50
upstairs? There's almost always The Powder
00:57:53
Room on the bottom for the. Why would you, you know, oh, I
00:57:56
need to use the restroom. Yeah, up the stairs into your
00:57:59
what? However, it's not a, it's not
00:58:02
unheard of houses, not having powder rooms on the first floor
00:58:07
is not unheard of house that big.
00:58:09
No, I'm sorry. Those are luxury homes when I
00:58:13
live in Georgia homes like that. Okay.
00:58:16
Well continue. Can t continue With this story.
00:58:19
And I'll, I have a bone to pick. He goes upstairs.
00:58:23
Those upstairs walks into their bedroom sees a teddy bear, and
00:58:28
they focus on the teddy bear. And I thought they were going to
00:58:33
folk. I thought they were going to
00:58:34
take the test. He was going to take the teddy
00:58:35
bear for something else. But no, he plants a camera in
00:58:40
the teddy bear. No, he didn't plan the camera.
00:58:43
The camera was already. There was a nanny cam.
00:58:46
So, how did he get the? How did he get the I'll have to
00:58:53
do is open it up, open it up, and get the and get the, the
00:58:58
school code off of the OKC, as The Nanny, cams were way after
00:59:02
my kids were in. That's now.
00:59:04
I don't know. Well, bomb to pick.
00:59:07
Okay, one it has a battery. And and I'm not gonna, he must
00:59:16
be like, I don't want to see a high level hacker, and it
00:59:19
probably didn't take that much skill to do but who knows how
00:59:23
long the battery happening and he can't because I'm sure he's
00:59:26
not walking around with batteries in his pocket and
00:59:29
active cameras batteries don't usually last, you know, more
00:59:34
than six months at the bat best, if it is always on.
00:59:39
It's not going to Last six months.
00:59:41
Well, they probably haven't been there six months yet.
00:59:44
So what? But I think we can probably
00:59:46
there. Yes.
00:59:48
Before that, secondly, who puts a nanny cam in their bedroom.
00:59:56
Well, maybe one of the maybe whoever was living in the house
01:00:03
before. Maybe one of the maybe the
01:00:06
spouse was suspecting another spouse of cheating and that's
01:00:09
why it's in there. You see it all the time.
01:00:12
Now you give his Riders too much credit.
01:00:15
No, no. No, you're not gonna do that to
01:00:17
me. You, I would I would have been,
01:00:19
I would have been more likely to believe him bringing cameras and
01:00:23
planting them as opposed to him fine.
01:00:25
You nanny, cam that he can hijack and add to his Wi-Fi
01:00:30
network because Vinny like, okay.
01:00:33
Well then how far? I just have a lot of questions
01:00:38
because we've got some Wi-Fi cameras around my house to see
01:00:43
the in Blackwell house. His house is far enough away to
01:00:46
walk. For him to walk in just a few
01:00:50
minutes, but is it Wi-Fi that strong to pick up that Nanny
01:00:55
cam, right? Because if not been in any
01:00:58
cameras on the network, he was able to hack that Network and
01:01:01
why isn't their work still up at the house and wives?
01:01:05
I just have a lot of questions. We are in a post-apocalyptic
01:01:08
world and my scenario would have made more sense.
01:01:12
Here. Scenario would have made more
01:01:14
sense, the camera in the bed, but, but the camera was on.
01:01:18
Dear. Yeah, I'm just saying I have I
01:01:23
don't know there's a lot of stuff to kind of like about this
01:01:27
episode and a lot of stuff to be like, what the hell, what we are
01:01:32
thinking, like what we, we not ask questions watching this.
01:01:39
I'm sorry. Go ahead, Casino.
01:01:41
You're you're you're right. You're right.
01:01:44
But any and then he Cam and the bedroom, who does that?
01:01:49
I'm telling you somebody was cheating before before they got
01:01:52
you know, off by the superflu. Somebody was cheating.
01:01:55
They was trying to catch somebody bringing somebody to
01:01:58
the bedroom. That's what it was because other
01:02:02
than that, you're right. I don't see why they would have
01:02:04
that in there. Unless it was one of those
01:02:05
things where they have the nanny camera.
01:02:08
They keep it in the room. And then when they, you know,
01:02:11
when they go out or when they have the babysitter, they put
01:02:14
they put the bed there before the babysitter gets there.
01:02:17
But that seems like too much work.
01:02:18
It's too much work. So you're doing it either.
01:02:22
Mental heavy lifting for the show.
01:02:25
It seems we've been doing that since the first episode.
01:02:29
Yeah. Yes, it's a lot of work.
01:02:31
This shows a lot of work. Okay, so let's talk about
01:02:34
Nadine. So Nadine at the beginning of
01:02:38
the episode, when we first see her, she's having a dream.
01:02:43
It's like night time. She's sleeping Joe sleeping.
01:02:46
She's having a dream and this dream, and I won't even call it
01:02:51
a flashback, but it's actually the only flashback we get in
01:02:55
this episode, which is great, because we're not doing a whole
01:02:58
bunch of whiplash mess going back and forth, back and forth,
01:03:02
but she's having a dream, and it's basically her.
01:03:05
Her and Larry kind of making out or kissing some.
01:03:09
I'm guessing they almost hooked up at some point on the road and
01:03:13
then knowing what I know about Larry, that might be true.
01:03:20
That might be true. And, you know, if you think
01:03:22
about it, when they first got to Boulder and they went to the
01:03:25
house, he asked her, he said, is this what you want?
01:03:28
He said I can crash down on the couch.
01:03:30
It wouldn't, it wouldn't have to mean anything.
01:03:33
So obviously at some point, something there.
01:03:35
Happen and then it kind of fizzled off, probably because of
01:03:39
her, you know what to say for yourself for flag.
01:03:44
But while she's having this dream flat comes to her and in
01:03:49
her dream and he says, oh the old mother's magic is wearing
01:03:52
off, because I can come to you now, you know, and I can see
01:03:56
things now, so he comes to her in the dream and they have a
01:03:59
conversation because she, he said something about oh, you
01:04:03
were dreaming about your little toy.
01:04:05
You You know, talking about Larry and she makes a comment
01:04:09
about, I don't understand. Why, why do you care?
01:04:12
You gave me the herald and he was like, hold up.
01:04:14
I ain't give you the nobody. You know, he makes that very
01:04:17
clear but then he also confirmed something we discussed in the
01:04:21
last episode. He basically tells her you
01:04:26
belong to me, you have, since I found you 12 years old years
01:04:32
old. I thought about you when I saw
01:04:34
that. Go, here we go.
01:04:38
Wasn't I, your friend wasn't I there for you?
01:04:43
Do we not have this conversation when we talked about this?
01:04:45
The last show that we did about him coming to her as a child as
01:04:51
opposed to in the books. When she's a little bit older is
01:04:54
this and then for it to be to be confirmed, right here.
01:05:00
I was just like and and I was thinking about it and even if We
01:05:06
instead of assuming even worse, we can do at best.
01:05:10
He was just grooming her. But even grooming her at 12:00
01:05:16
is kind of disgusting. Terrible grooming, her to be
01:05:21
your bride when she comes of age as like, Terrible this step
01:05:30
again, real life example, but I don't want to do that.
01:05:33
But yeah, that is, but that is even even being a change for her
01:05:38
being in college. It's like why we know that he's
01:05:42
we do. I'm not going to rehash, we
01:05:44
talked about before but we know that he's a terrible evil
01:05:48
person. We know that he's evil, you
01:05:50
don't have to make her 12 to reiterate the point, right?
01:05:54
We know that he has sway in influence over people.
01:05:57
So coming to her in college, would have been just as
01:06:02
effective a more seamless creepy coming to her at 12:00.
01:06:07
Mhm. It would have made more sense.
01:06:09
She's saving herself for the perfect person.
01:06:12
Right? And he comes to her and college
01:06:14
and he's his perfect person, and it would also go along with her
01:06:19
already. Being sort of, I don't want
01:06:22
this, use were bad, but you could've at least because of me,
01:06:25
like, well she was going to be on his side.
01:06:28
Anyway. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't
01:06:31
know. Cuz I'm trying to remember, I
01:06:32
think the way it was in the books.
01:06:35
I think when she was younger and she was in position.
01:06:38
Is where she might have had sex like as a teenager, whatever.
01:06:41
I don't think it was necessarily him that came to her.
01:06:45
But I think she said something about she always had a feeling
01:06:48
that this was not what she was supposed to do.
01:06:50
She was supposed to be saving herself for something again.
01:06:53
I haven't read the book in like years so I don't remember but I
01:06:57
don't remember it being, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't
01:07:01
him? Because he didn't come there
01:07:02
until she was in college. So but anyway, so this kind of
01:07:07
leads. To a conversation, she has later
01:07:10
on. So she's looking for Joe.
01:07:12
She's trying to give him some lunch and he's not in the house.
01:07:14
So she goes to look for him and she finds him at mother
01:07:18
Abigail's house and he's sitting there and he's playing the piano
01:07:22
and you know, she fusses at him for leaving without telling her
01:07:26
and she's like even some other Abigail's.
01:07:27
You can't come here and mother Abigail is like, oh, you know,
01:07:30
we were just you know, I'm sorry.
01:07:32
We were just having a conversation.
01:07:33
She's like he talked to you and she was like, well, there's
01:07:36
talking and there's talking So this is one thing I do want to
01:07:41
say, as far as Jose character, you know, I know we've mentioned
01:07:44
before the fact that he's nonverbal right now and we've
01:07:48
made, we've made assumptions that he is autistic.
01:07:54
I don't think he's actually autistic just going by the
01:07:58
things that mother Abigail says, I think he's just traumatized
01:08:02
and his nonverbal in this is a symptom of PTSD.
01:08:06
You know, she said something about You know because Nadine
01:08:10
says, is there anything that I shouldn't, you know, did he say
01:08:12
anything? I should know like what his real
01:08:14
name is and mother Abigail says no, we didn't get that far.
01:08:18
She said but you know, there's some you know, there's some
01:08:22
things a child should not see, you know, he's been through some
01:08:26
things, a child should not have to go through and that's what
01:08:29
he's seeing some things that no child should say.
01:08:32
Yeah. Yeah, so that makes me think
01:08:36
that he is. I know that he's just
01:08:39
traumatized but obviously we have some clues about him.
01:08:43
We know he's good at spotting people who are not necessarily
01:08:48
good, because he has this thing about Harold, you know, and that
01:08:53
could have something to do with whatever it was that he
01:08:55
witnessed while he was out on his own, before Nadine found
01:08:58
him. We know that he's musically
01:09:00
inclined because he picked up a guitar and played something back
01:09:04
to Larry perfectly when Nadine finds him that much.
01:09:08
ER Abigail's, he's playing the piano and he's playing like he's
01:09:11
played before. So that gives us a little bit
01:09:14
more of a clue to his character. But you know, Nathan and and
01:09:19
mother Abigail have a conversation and the
01:09:23
conversation is about choice and mother Abigail.
01:09:28
I think she kind of lets Nadine know.
01:09:32
That she knows about flag without letting her know that,
01:09:37
you know, she basically says, you know, we all have a choice
01:09:40
until we don't, you know, she was like, everybody has a choice
01:09:44
to do what they want to do, to be who they want to be.
01:09:48
Yeah, because mother Abigail with know, if whether or not she
01:09:51
had been in their dreams. Exactly, right, so, and that
01:09:56
that's mother. I think instead of her calling
01:09:59
her out on that mother abbess. Gail is taking that to mean that
01:10:04
she chose to be there and they got on that conversation because
01:10:08
mother Abigail comments about how she cares about Joe and how
01:10:12
she takes care of them. And she's like, well, I really
01:10:14
didn't have a choice. Did I?
01:10:15
And she was like, everybody always has a choice.
01:10:18
She said, you made a choice to take care of him.
01:10:21
You made a choice to stick with him and you guys take care of
01:10:25
each other and it's a beautiful thing and you know, she's
01:10:27
basically I think at this point trying to give Nadine some hope
01:10:31
that Look, your life doesn't have to go down this path that
01:10:35
you are on. You can make a choice to change
01:10:38
and because of that Nadine finds herself right after Larry gets
01:10:42
the call from friend to go to Harold's house as he's walking
01:10:47
out the door and they deem is, you know, coming to his doorstep
01:10:50
and she's basically throwing herself at him like she wants
01:10:55
him to have sex with her and he's a little confused because
01:11:00
he was like, you didn't want Want this before.
01:11:02
Like what's what happened? What's going on?
01:11:04
And she's like, you know, she very plainly explicitly I need
01:11:08
you to fuck me. He was like, this is not how you
01:11:11
usually talk. This is not you what's going on
01:11:15
and you know, he makes it a point to say I don't want to do
01:11:18
this and you have regrets in the morning.
01:11:20
I don't want, you know, I don't want this to be.
01:11:22
I don't want to take advantage of you.
01:11:24
What's going on. Tell me he Jen, you can tell he
01:11:27
genuinely cares for her. But she's doing this out of
01:11:31
desperation like she feels like if she has sex with Larry that's
01:11:35
going to break whatever whole random flag has on her and this
01:11:38
is the first time that we see that she seems scared, you know,
01:11:44
or is trying to change her fate. And she basically says to him,
01:11:49
she was like, this is the only way.
01:11:51
This is the only way he'll let me go.
01:11:53
And Larry again is confused. He's like who?
01:11:56
And then of course at the end of the episode, when he's in
01:11:59
Harold's house. These mating shirt, he's going
01:12:02
to automate. He's going to think is Harold.
01:12:05
Mmm, you know, that's about it. That's about to become an issue
01:12:08
because he's going to think that he is forcing Nadine to stay
01:12:12
with him or something, or do something.
01:12:15
So. And that's probably what's going
01:12:17
to be kind of the match that that starts.
01:12:22
You know, Harold's plan in Boulder.
01:12:26
Okay, so, I just wanted to say a couple of things about Larry
01:12:30
real quick. So Larry II want to give Larry a
01:12:35
little bit of crazy. I know he was really trying not
01:12:37
to do anything because he had something else he needed to do.
01:12:40
Because this was, when he was on his way out to go break into her
01:12:44
parents house, because I would like to think that if he didn't
01:12:49
have that task before him. He would have told her, you know
01:12:54
what, I'm not going to do that with you right now.
01:12:56
But if you come in, you can sit down and we can talk about it
01:13:00
because I think that's what she really needed at that moment.
01:13:04
I mean, I know where she thought she wanted, but I think knowing
01:13:09
Larry and knowing how he normally would be, he normally
01:13:11
probably say, you know, what coming here.
01:13:13
Let's talk about this and maybe one thing was late to another,
01:13:17
who knows? But at least I like to think
01:13:19
that he would have. He would have at least Tried to
01:13:23
talk to her and figure out what's going on with it, because
01:13:26
obviously something is terribly wrong.
01:13:28
And then she also said to him, you are the only person in the
01:13:31
world. I trust you.
01:13:32
I trust. So yeah, so then he started out
01:13:35
the conversation with what is this?
01:13:37
Not something that wait till tomorrow because I got something
01:13:39
else, I need to do, you know that that is not going to.
01:13:43
It's not going to help the situation at all.
01:13:46
Right, but he tried to recover the say, you know, this is not
01:13:49
true. You know, this this is what is
01:13:52
going. All that you did ask her that,
01:13:53
but I really think he would have a sort of come in and sit down
01:13:56
and talk talk about it because she, she seemed like that there
01:14:01
was something really going on. He seems to really care about
01:14:04
her. Yeah, he does.
01:14:05
And, to be honest with you. He almost seems sort of out of
01:14:09
character for him because it is almost as if, I think he would
01:14:15
have rather have talked to her, then go break into Harold's
01:14:18
house. Yeah.
01:14:19
Definitely. I think, I really do think that.
01:14:22
It's sort of that sort of those that and him breaking into the
01:14:26
house of the two things that kind of put me off this episode.
01:14:30
It's like Him not actually really talking to her.
01:14:35
This person that you spent time with on the road that just said,
01:14:38
she trusts him. That is basically saying she
01:14:41
needs to get away from somebody and he doesn't take the time out
01:14:45
to find out who it is. So he go breaking someone's
01:14:48
house then just that kind of bothered me and you know, there
01:14:54
are a lot of things to like about this episode with there
01:14:56
are more things to dislike and and I hate to see, you know, the
01:15:05
person who lives with me, not really related to me by marriage
01:15:14
while we watch the show because he listens to us in the
01:15:18
background. It's like, you don't like the
01:15:20
show. So why are we wasting our time?
01:15:22
That's not the point? Had enough of DragonCon animals.
01:15:36
All this has been, somebody, she knows knows.
01:15:40
That's her. We still we're going to watch it
01:15:44
because on some level, it is entertainment.
01:15:47
There is some value there as entertainment.
01:15:51
It can be bad and entertainment, but it's entertainment.
01:15:54
Nonetheless. I'm a fan of the stand.
01:15:58
I can sit there and say there's some things I don't like about
01:16:01
it. If you really pay attention like
01:16:03
our listeners are doing, hopefully they can hear as point
01:16:07
out things that we like, we do that, but we also point out that
01:16:11
he's better bad and there's a lot of bad about this and there
01:16:16
is good, but the good is enough to keep me watching it, you
01:16:21
know, a lot of these people we talked about this early either
01:16:24
the characters, they get enough to keep us watching it, but the
01:16:29
Larry thing, I'm like hot and cold with his life.
01:16:33
One hand. He's like the best can see I've
01:16:35
got in the show and then the other hand, y'all do some stupid
01:16:38
myths. Like this.
01:16:39
That's completely turns me off. Yeah, you know, and I like I'm
01:16:44
going to repeat this because I want everyone to hear this.
01:16:47
I really think that the character that we have known up
01:16:51
until this episode would have, had her come in and talk to her,
01:16:56
find out what's going on with her because that, that is the
01:16:59
kind of person he was because he wouldn't have let It really kill
01:17:02
herself if he was awake. No, he was wrong.
01:17:07
He was wrong for leaving her but that was about
01:17:09
self-preservation. But if he saw her as desperate
01:17:13
as she was, maybe he didn't really notice it.
01:17:16
But if he had known that, it's what she was going to do.
01:17:19
He would have talked to him like no.
01:17:20
No, we're in this together. We're going to figure this out
01:17:25
because you wouldn't. Yeah, he's a same person who
01:17:30
took his mother out of the Hospital put her in his bed and
01:17:35
sat there with her, as she died, right, you know, the same person
01:17:40
that went outside to the guy that wanted to kill him and
01:17:44
tried to help him find Comfort, right?
01:17:46
Yeah. That's who that is.
01:17:48
Who Larry is Larry is not the guy who's going to blow off the
01:17:52
friend of his who's in desperation mode.
01:17:54
So you can go break into somebody's house.
01:17:59
And we're especially not after going through what he went
01:18:03
through with Rita. Yeah waking up to find out.
01:18:05
She killed herself. I mean you can see Nadine was
01:18:10
desperate at this point, you know, the fact that she was
01:18:14
trying to get you to do. The one thing that she was like
01:18:17
that she had told you before she couldn't do.
01:18:22
Nobody makes that kind of turnaround a list are scared or,
01:18:28
unless they're being pressured, and she look like, like, when
01:18:33
she walked in his house. She looked like something the
01:18:35
cat had drugged, and she was, she was her hair was stringy.
01:18:41
She was shaking. She was, she just looked
01:18:45
horrible. She looked like somebody with
01:18:48
the weight of the world on her shoulders and It was basically
01:18:52
that she was, like, I have a choice.
01:18:54
I can change my fate if I do this one thing.
01:18:58
I can be free. Hmm.
01:19:01
But it's like now and I mean, did you okay?
01:19:04
And I will say this again, don't then don't particularly care for
01:19:10
her but ever heard, right? But in this and don't usually
01:19:15
care for her acting. But in this episode, especially
01:19:19
that scene, I felt for her like when she turned around and
01:19:24
walked out of Larry's house and she was like, I'll be fine.
01:19:27
I mean just Monotone voice. She was walking like a zombie.
01:19:32
Like she had no. It was, it was heartbreaking to
01:19:37
watch her, walk out that door knowing what that, what fate,
01:19:41
that was going to resign her to. Yeah, that was a really, really
01:19:46
good piece of acting that she did and I've seen it really was.
01:19:50
It was the first time that she's sort of summon that Loris
01:19:55
Andrea. San Giacomo.
01:19:59
It was such a great Nadine in the original.
01:20:02
It was like, this was the first time I actually saw Solve the
01:20:06
character of me being, like, in all her glory, you know, that
01:20:10
pain that she has and that, that desperation that she has fy'y
01:20:17
psychic. Finally saw what I was looking
01:20:20
for, in a character and see how I give her props for that.
01:20:24
That was really good. Yeah.
01:20:26
She was good in that. I know you like.
01:20:30
But it's Amber Heard though. So let's get the one care.
01:20:35
So we haven't really talked much about this episode.
01:20:38
Next mother Abigail. So we did mention her a little
01:20:41
bit earlier because she has found out that they sent spies
01:20:45
and she is like whoo. She was like, did you feel it?
01:20:50
Haha. Did you feel when she was
01:20:54
fussing at Nick like that poor baby.
01:20:58
He was just sitting there like, with his head hung, like he
01:21:01
didn't do nothing. You can say, And there's
01:21:06
nothing. I mean, literally, there's
01:21:08
nothing. He can say, there's nothing he
01:21:09
can do. When, when the old folks talking
01:21:12
about having your ears boxed. He was asking boxes.
01:21:16
Like, that's what that means is by seeing his, you know,
01:21:27
whatever, I've done to offend you.
01:21:29
Please give me, you know, please give me the means to atone for
01:21:33
a. Tell me what you would have me.
01:21:34
Do you know? Because she's taking this is her
01:21:37
responsibility as her responsibilities.
01:21:40
Like, they're supposed to be following her and doing what he
01:21:44
is commanding, and they've done something behind her back.
01:21:47
They've done something against her wishes.
01:21:49
So now she feels like she has to be the one to repent for it and
01:21:53
as she's doing this praying, the wolf comes to her.
01:21:57
Now, I would say that that wolf kind of scared me a little bit.
01:22:01
He was just sitting there. He's just growling and she's
01:22:03
just like and and then the next thing we know, ray goes to her
01:22:08
house and there's a note on the door and she's basically telling
01:22:12
them that she's left. Don't come looking for her and
01:22:16
it's just kind of like wait a mother, a go Andrei.
01:22:21
Poor thing. She's just like screaming in the
01:22:24
streets for her and you know, she's calling on the radio.
01:22:27
Hey, do you have eyes on mother Abigail?
01:22:30
Hey, cendre up to her house to look for.
01:22:32
She was like damn it. I am ready.
01:22:36
You know and of course Stewart and Franny here this while
01:22:41
they're making out in the bedroom and hair with his
01:22:44
creepily watching on the nanny cam.
01:22:46
And you know, he hears that mother Abigail is missing and
01:22:50
then he has this really creepy smile on his face and then it
01:22:53
cuts to black but that smile at the end. he looked hella creepy
01:22:59
like, This do here. He does, I did not really care
01:23:07
for him too much at the beginning because I felt like
01:23:10
Carol was supposed to be a more nuanced character.
01:23:13
He was supposed to be kind of awkward from the beginning and
01:23:18
then kind of gradually going into that psychopath phase.
01:23:23
And this guy has been giving me psycho vibes from the beginning
01:23:27
from the beginning. But now at this point in the
01:23:30
story, it works like this is where Harold is To be right now,
01:23:34
especially you just found out that, you know, the girl that
01:23:37
you love, she basically set you up so that somebody can spying
01:23:42
your house and it's just getting to the point now where he's
01:23:45
like, okay, you know what? I'm about to kill this bitch and
01:23:47
this is what these are the Vibes that I'm getting from him now
01:23:50
and it's appropriate now, so I'm feeling Harold louder as a
01:23:55
character. Now this is where we're supposed
01:23:58
to be with him. Yeah.
01:24:00
So, you know, like you said there was some good things about
01:24:03
the f. Pisode there was not good
01:24:06
things. Again the and the best wax at
01:24:10
the decimation of Dana and Friends characters in this
01:24:14
episode. It's just that that's just
01:24:19
that's just going to be that's going to be the one of the big
01:24:21
things that bothers me about this series because those two
01:24:24
characters in these two settings should have been so much more
01:24:28
than they were. Dana is specially friend.
01:24:31
I can I can get especially if Fran is Not I can put her
01:24:36
behavior down as to the whole she's not used to being fake
01:24:41
type thing or she's not used to being you know, she's not used
01:24:45
to subterfuge or you know trying to do that kind of thing.
01:24:48
So I can I can kind of sort of say I still like the way it came
01:24:52
off but I can kind of sort of see it.
01:24:54
Dana just character. Assassination is just yeah, just
01:24:59
well. Yeah, but I mean well we don't
01:25:02
have to worry about your character.
01:25:04
Anymore. So, sees sees gone, you know, we
01:25:07
don't have to worry about that. At least she died in a nice
01:25:10
outfit. She did.
01:25:12
She was looking fly. I can fly.
01:25:17
But I do want to talk about one of the great things about this.
01:25:20
Episode is there was no time jumps none.
01:25:24
There were no times up none. Absolutely none.
01:25:27
No time job. So that that that lip lash.
01:25:30
Yeah, no times. It's no hour ago.
01:25:34
Time jobs, right? Um, but but I will say, you
01:25:39
know, again speaking with the person who gives me I'm related
01:25:43
to by marriage. She told me, you know, we had a
01:25:48
discussion about the time jumps and and she's like because we're
01:25:52
watching American Gods plug for upcoming show.
01:25:55
We're going to be talking about American Gods.
01:25:57
So American Gods, they also do flashbacks and I was trying to
01:26:03
say that the flashbacks, American Gods arm, Like
01:26:08
character filler. They give you insight into the
01:26:10
characters. And she's like, nobody does the
01:26:14
same thing, is tells you how the characters ended up where they
01:26:17
are now. I'm like, well, sort of but not
01:26:20
really like we don't really know.
01:26:23
They're not telling us where the characters, how the characters
01:26:26
that telling a separate story of how, the carriage is all ended
01:26:30
up in one place, giving us information about the characters
01:26:35
like they given us a history lesson.
01:26:37
Yeah, like how they came to be not how the ended up hooking up
01:26:41
with. Z and even when they do give us
01:26:45
flashbacks, like if you think about last season season 2, we
01:26:50
did get some flashbacks from like when Shadow moon was
01:26:54
younger and with his mother, but the way that they do, their
01:26:59
flashbacks makes sense within the confines of this kind of
01:27:04
sponsor, the story follows, right?
01:27:07
It's a flow to it. It's not like it's not something
01:27:11
that's so jarring. I mean that you have to sit
01:27:14
there and look like what the hell just happened, you know?
01:27:17
Yeah, and I was also saying that they weren't telling a separate
01:27:24
story. Like the reason why the
01:27:27
flashbacks in to me understand this withdrawing is that they
01:27:32
are following a different plot than the plot of what we're
01:27:38
supposed to be watching currently.
01:27:40
Like it's two separate Stories being Told about to serpent
01:27:44
times and and because your prison story is structured the
01:27:50
same way as a flashback stories. Like we're seeing different
01:27:55
characters, different points in time.
01:27:58
All this journey to get to Boulder.
01:28:00
We're seeing the same characters in the prison point in time in
01:28:04
Boulder if the same story. But in two different times and
01:28:09
sometimes in three cuz you'll sometimes the three kids you
01:28:12
get. - exactly more like lost if everyone can can bear with me
01:28:22
for a second. If you go back to Los lost, sort
01:28:25
of did the same thing with their flashbacks.
01:28:28
It was sort of a blend of the two.
01:28:30
They were giving information about the characters, but they
01:28:32
were also showing you have the characters ended up.
01:28:35
There were times. They were showing you how the
01:28:36
characters ended up on the island.
01:28:37
And they were showing you how characters met each other before
01:28:42
they got to the That was more, like, what we get in the stand,
01:28:46
but they did it so much more effectively and lost because
01:28:52
they were also giving you details and information about
01:28:55
the characters. And a lot of times the stuff
01:28:58
that was in the past was relevant, was important to the
01:29:02
story. They were telling in the
01:29:03
episode. I wasn't getting that really in
01:29:08
the stand. It seems like they filmed the
01:29:12
season. In episode 1 through 8, and then
01:29:15
they chopped it up and it is what it felt.
01:29:19
Like. That's what it feels like.
01:29:20
Because now we're at the midpoint of so 5 where we don't
01:29:25
get any, because of this point. Everyone is there, you know, we
01:29:30
had assumed that they were show us how Vegas came to because I
01:29:35
thought maybe they were just start with Vegas, which they
01:29:38
did. And that the next two or three
01:29:41
episodes will be about Vegas with flashbacks on how all these
01:29:45
people ended up there. I mean they feel they go there
01:29:50
but it doesn't seem like that's going to be the case.
01:29:52
It doesn't. Yeah, honestly with the white
01:29:57
they introduced New Vegas in this episode.
01:30:00
I don't think we need it because we pretty much can tell that
01:30:04
most of these people who are there.
01:30:07
They are there. Because I mean he even said it
01:30:10
in his speech. He said, you know, The the
01:30:13
people of the old world, they tried to tell you that sex was
01:30:17
bad, that that violence was bad. And he was like, and it's not
01:30:22
and those are the people that are there with him.
01:30:25
The people who Revel in this? I mean, when Dana was brought
01:30:29
out to the floor to, you know, with Lloyd and Julie to see
01:30:34
everything. I mean, there's a full-fledged
01:30:37
orgy going on, everywhere in the hotel every time you see them
01:30:42
going. Going down the elevator.
01:30:45
And in the next elevator, next to them.
01:30:47
There's a couple having sex in a glass elevator going up and it's
01:30:51
just kind of like it's all over the place.
01:30:53
Like literally people when you say, people are just having sex
01:30:57
in the streets. No, they're literally having sex
01:31:01
in this to me beer, like, everywhere.
01:31:04
It was like it reminded me of even like Eyes Wide Shut or like
01:31:11
the orgy scene in. The Witcher it was just like
01:31:14
everywhere everywhere everywhere.
01:31:17
And just random people like walking.
01:31:19
I'm bored with you. Let me go to this person.
01:31:21
Next here and it was just random walking through.
01:31:25
Walk you through one a little fingers brothels.
01:31:28
Exactly, exactly. And then on top of the orgies
01:31:33
and everything taking place like right there in the middle, at
01:31:36
the bottom. You've got a fighting pit.
01:31:39
And instead of just fighting to the deaths there, literally.
01:31:43
Hacking each other to death. So, you've got legs over here in
01:31:48
arms over here and torsos over here.
01:31:50
And it's just like and then you've got people even having
01:31:54
sex in the midst of that. I think, you know, in the same
01:31:58
on the same floor. So it's just like, we already
01:32:01
know what kind of people he's attracting and obviously, if
01:32:04
they're not in Boulder then that's where they are.
01:32:07
I don't really think we need a back story at this point if we
01:32:11
already have Lloyd's. A backstory.
01:32:13
He seems to be the most important person being and we
01:32:16
sort of got an idea about Julie right now.
01:32:19
We may get some of her backstory but at this about it, I don't
01:32:24
think that's important. Like I want to see what they're
01:32:28
doing now because now you've got Dana dead.
01:32:32
You've got Tom there who may be figuring out that it might be
01:32:37
time for him to leave. Who knows the judge is not there
01:32:41
yet, but they know she's on her way.
01:32:44
So if we're going by the cannon and the old store, she's not
01:32:50
going to make it. She's not even going to make it
01:32:52
to Vegas. So you've got mother, Abigail
01:32:55
who has disappeared. So now, of course, she told them
01:32:58
not to find her. So what are they going to do?
01:33:00
They're going to go. Go look for her before.
01:33:02
Yeah, I go look for her and then we still have the, you know, the
01:33:09
main characters they have to journey to Boulder.
01:33:11
We have to have, I mean, we have to have these different little
01:33:14
things happen and we've only got what four episodes, or %.
01:33:20
Yeah. So there's this, there's a lot
01:33:22
of ground to cover for the next round.
01:33:26
So, I'm afraid, I'm afraid not only of waste going to get cut,
01:33:31
what's going to get changed? And the way in, which is going
01:33:34
to be changed is, is is my fear and, and just a little insight.
01:33:40
I know we don't talk about other reviewers, but I know there were
01:33:43
a lot of people, a lot of reviewers got this guy, these
01:33:46
episodes early. Most of them that I've seen have
01:33:51
said that this is where every this episode episode 5.
01:33:56
I've is where everything kind of went off the rails.
01:34:01
So we will see will see coming up but that that has been the
01:34:08
best but that's been the consensus for the most part.
01:34:11
Get out now, so we gotta finish that but for the most part the
01:34:15
consistencies this is where everything went off the rails.
01:34:18
And I tried not to watch your views because I want mine to be
01:34:22
pretty untainted, but like you said between Dana and Franny,
01:34:27
and And really just Dana there. That whole thing.
01:34:34
Just her whole Arc just seems completely and utterly
01:34:38
ridiculous. I just like, yes, her story up.
01:34:42
Yeah, and then Larry and the dean their whole thing.
01:34:47
Is this so strange and weird. It's his at I really really
01:34:54
hopefully I want to say things get better but I'm not I'm not,
01:35:00
I'm not counting on it. I wonder what the numbers are
01:35:03
for them. I wonder how many people started
01:35:06
watching your hands have just abandon it and I wonder, I
01:35:09
wonder what the numbers are, like and I know Amazon is Never
01:35:12
Gonna never going to release that information.
01:35:15
Yeah. I am people who, when I posted
01:35:19
like checked in on Facebook that I was watching it.
01:35:22
I've had a few people be like, yeah, we started it copped out
01:35:25
after episode one like one person.
01:35:27
He was like Yeah, my mom started watching it.
01:35:30
She didn't even get through the whole first episode.
01:35:32
She hated it. She hated absolutely everything
01:35:34
about it. She refused to watch the rest of
01:35:36
it. And then I do know, a few people
01:35:38
who are still watching it, but they don't like it.
01:35:41
Like there was a actual thread I think a couple of times I've
01:35:44
tweeted about something and literally everybody abundant the
01:35:47
Tweet have been like, yeah, you're right.
01:35:49
I don't like this either and I have not I'm not really seen
01:35:55
anybody who is watch this. And said that they loved it.
01:36:00
Not if they were fans of the original Source material.
01:36:04
I have not said, I literally, and I'm not exaggerating that.
01:36:07
I've not seen anybody yet, you know, you know, that I'm friends
01:36:14
with. Yeah.
01:36:16
I love it. You know, you and I for years,
01:36:22
he'll talked about if you if you was just starting to show you
01:36:26
got to give it about four or five episodes before you can
01:36:31
pass judgment. It's been five episodes.
01:36:34
I'm passing sugar is kind of bad.
01:36:38
It really is, is that me what I was expecting and I was really
01:36:45
hopeful for this one because, you know, We live in a time now
01:36:50
where almost everything in Hollywood is a remake or reboot?
01:36:56
Like there seemed to be no original ideas coming out of
01:37:00
Hollywood. Now, for the most part, a lot of
01:37:02
things have been rebooted. A lot of Stephen King things,
01:37:06
especially the last few years. I mean, they re done it, they've
01:37:09
redone pet cemetery, you know, other things have come out, and
01:37:16
it's kind of like, I like the originals and I understand the
01:37:22
reason for remakes. I mean this day and age that we
01:37:26
are not the only ones to do remakes.
01:37:27
I mean they've been doing remakes almost since the history
01:37:31
of Hollywood, you know, um, sometimes the remakes work, you
01:37:37
know, sometimes they don't this one.
01:37:41
I was really, really looking forward to it just because I
01:37:45
wanted to see what they would be able to do with the The story
01:37:49
with new technology with new grafic, CGI, whatever.
01:37:55
Because like you said, there were some things about the 94,
01:37:58
like the whole hand of God thing that thing was, that was
01:38:00
horrible. It was really looking forward to
01:38:03
like, okay. I want to see how they're going
01:38:05
to improve on this. And there are some things that I
01:38:08
really, really do like about this show.
01:38:11
Like I said, as far as casting Alexander, Skarsgard, perfect,
01:38:16
as Randall, Flagg Catman, The mirror perfect as jewelry, you
01:38:21
know playing Larry undo it. Yeah, he's great.
01:38:26
Um, James Marsden is growing on me is too but I don't feel like
01:38:34
we cease to enough in this version for me to be like, oh,
01:38:39
yeah. I absolutely hate him.
01:38:40
I absolutely love him. Like he's kind of a is too
01:38:43
plain. He's a yeah.
01:38:58
And the other really gotten any Glenn and we're not getting near
01:39:06
as enough. It near enough.
01:39:08
Nick know, Nick was like a main character in the original and
01:39:15
Rob Lowe was great as Nick. And he's one of my favorite.
01:39:20
He was evil. He was one of my favorite
01:39:22
characters in the book is well when I get enough of him and I
01:39:26
feel like at this point with only four episodes left.
01:39:30
Those are some of the characters that we really should be seeing
01:39:35
more of now. I will say this, we do know that
01:39:37
still has a big part in towards the end of the, towards the end
01:39:42
of the show, so we may see more of students care to if they hold
01:39:46
true to the source material. Material.
01:39:49
But at this point, I can't really make much of a judgment
01:39:53
because he's been very neutral in this.
01:39:56
Yeah, and it's almost as if for me, the only thing keeping the
01:40:03
train going, are the actors, you know, working with with a god,
01:40:10
they seem to be through their acting performances.
01:40:13
Just carrying us through. Yeah, and that seems to be the
01:40:18
case. This is and maybe Amber Heard is
01:40:20
kind of helped the saddle stupid with his last episode.
01:40:26
You heard me we've heard characterization of Nadine
01:40:29
because again, they really screwed it up with Dana.
01:40:32
I mean and like I said, I like the actress that was playing
01:40:35
her, but it was just this episode felt so unlike that
01:40:40
character. Like I would, I'm sorry.
01:40:46
I would have picked her out first day.
01:40:48
You see the only person walking around asking about Randall,
01:40:52
Flagg. Oh, something about you, ain't
01:40:53
right and light like Lloyd said, Captain trips happened.
01:40:58
Long time ago. Where have you been until now, I
01:41:01
was thinking she could. It just been honest.
01:41:04
Well, I was, you know, trudging along and I got kidnapped by
01:41:08
some crazy pervert who raped me every night.
01:41:12
And I finally was able to kill his ass and this is where I
01:41:16
ended up being that would have made the for a better story
01:41:19
because of the like, wow, that's what made them like.
01:41:26
Oh, how did you kill him? I bashed his brains and there
01:41:29
was nothing left of his hair. Oh, yeah.
01:41:32
Come on, let's go party. That would have made so much
01:41:35
more sense. And Julia could have like oh,
01:41:38
this is my girl, you know, because that she's all about.
01:41:42
That and Julie was feeling her anyway, Julie.
01:41:44
I think it was in to Dana more than she was in before but you
01:41:48
know, but I thought that was a wasted opportunity right there
01:41:52
just have her to just to embellish her truth a little
01:41:56
bit. That's how seeing of this I
01:42:00
after all. This.
01:42:00
Should I even if you got some stuff, you know, if you want
01:42:05
saying something do that, you know, lean into it.
01:42:12
You got to lean in lean into that decision.
01:42:15
You made follow through. So we'll see how this we only
01:42:23
got another month and it'll be all over.
01:42:27
We move on to bigger better. Things will start talking about
01:42:30
American Gods and we'll put this all behind this.
01:42:34
Yeah, but I you know, halfway through I have to say I'm
01:42:39
probably more disappointed than I am pleased with what they've
01:42:43
done so far, so, I don't know. Let's just Let's just say, okay.
01:42:49
We've hit that for episode 5 episode hump and from here on
01:42:54
out. They're going to blow our minds
01:42:55
out the water. I mean, I don't know if I should
01:42:59
go that route because then I'll be more disappointed.
01:43:02
If it doesn't come out that way especially given what you've
01:43:04
said the critics are saying, but I kind of there's a part of me
01:43:09
that really wants to have hope that this is going to be better.
01:43:14
Anthony shaking his head like nope.
01:43:19
We're kills my with. We kills it for me and this is
01:43:24
going to sound like, out of left field.
01:43:26
Is where the hell is my VIP ago? Like, when, what where are you?
01:43:35
We got four episodes left and, and Now, I remember in the
01:43:42
original story. She left because as she said,
01:43:45
she had to go make her Penance to God.
01:43:47
I know she but for some weeks and then she came back and she
01:43:53
told she told the boulder, five what God said they had to do.
01:43:58
And then after that, I believe she dies, so we probably will
01:44:02
only see what be in, maybe one more episode.
01:44:04
But I mean, we didn't eat, we didn't even get enough of
01:44:08
mother. Gail and know.
01:44:10
And I think that's, that's from going, like you, I don't know.
01:44:17
I guess you took the main characters of the show and you
01:44:21
and you relegated them to secondhand neutral or just kind
01:44:27
of almost throw away characters. Because again, we haven't really
01:44:31
seen much Nick and Nick Nick was a huge huge, huge part of the
01:44:37
book and of the original Because at this point, it's really a
01:44:42
show about Nadine Harold and Franny.
01:44:49
And and Larry that is your core. That's it.
01:44:54
Right? Everybody else.
01:44:57
Derek. They did not even co-stars, you
01:44:59
just background characters. They were a episode 5, your
01:45:05
shows really if you really want to be me and crew, it's is
01:45:10
really the herald and Franny show everything revolves around
01:45:13
here on their Franny, with his side story that's happening in
01:45:18
Vegas. That's it.
01:45:20
This all you've given us and it's one thing that this show is
01:45:28
making me want to do. Now.
01:45:30
I really do want to go. Back and reread the book and
01:45:33
re-watch the original series. There is a series, I think
01:45:37
Utopias are you to find YouTube YouTube.
01:45:40
So, I think at this point, once I'm done with this, I'm going to
01:45:44
go back and revisit those because You know, the the
01:45:49
original miniseries, it had its faults, but I feel like it was a
01:45:54
truer adaptation than most of his stuff is, you know, and I
01:46:01
remember a lot of the book being put on that screen for those.
01:46:08
What was it? Six and a half hours hours.
01:46:11
Maybe I do. Eventually want to go back and
01:46:15
watch that especially if this one doesn't turn out.
01:46:18
To be what I wanted to be. I'm going to need something to
01:46:22
cleanse, my palate me back into and put me back into the mindset
01:46:27
of this. Being one of my favorite
01:46:28
all-time stories ever. I just don't think this that
01:46:33
this miniseries is doing it for me.
01:46:36
I think they just stopped doing Stephen King adaptations.
01:46:40
I think this is just stop. There was some good ones like
01:46:45
The Shining but that was Stanley Kubrick.
01:46:47
He was He hates that, but he wasn't going to mess it up
01:46:51
there. Either.
01:46:54
You me. Stephen.
01:46:54
Yeah, Stephen King. Good like Nathan.
01:46:56
Yeah. Well that's about egos.
01:46:58
No one's ego is larger was larger than Stephen, King's been
01:47:02
in Stanley Kubrick's and you're not going to tell Stanley
01:47:05
Kubrick what he's going to do in his movie.
01:47:08
That's number one and Stanley Kubrick's.
01:47:10
Version of the signing is better than Stephen King's version of
01:47:15
The Shining. Because when he was able to do
01:47:17
The Shining, And be involved in it.
01:47:20
It wasn't nearly as good as the original and that's because of
01:47:25
Stanley Kubrick either. I mean, there's there's there's
01:47:28
a difference between I'm speaking like, I'm an expert in
01:47:33
Authority obvious, but taking a book and put it on the screen.
01:47:37
I'm sure it's not easy thing to do, but you're going to have to
01:47:40
have someone pretty good to do it and to do it, right?
01:47:46
It's like there's some things it's just not going to.
01:47:48
This in the book second work on screen, but there's some things
01:47:51
I can do on screen this kind of going to work.
01:47:54
You know, I mean, the firm by John Grisham is the excellent
01:47:59
book. The movie has a different ending
01:48:01
in the book. And guess what, is almost better
01:48:05
than the book the movie is really, really good.
01:48:09
I mean, we can go on and on maybe we should do an episode
01:48:12
about our favorite book to film at their patients.
01:48:17
And some point, but like it's not an easy thing to do.
01:48:20
And the reason why I had high hopes for the stand is Nine
01:48:25
episodes, you know, nine hours. You got you got a lot of time to
01:48:30
do it, right, you know to is a lot of characters, a lot of
01:48:34
story. You got nine episodes, you know,
01:48:37
you can do it. No commercials.
01:48:39
Well, it does have commercials, but you got a solid hour.
01:48:45
Well, well, yeah, Amazon throws, commercial Co okay.
01:48:51
Okay. Yeah, see, I watch mine on CBS
01:48:54
access. But yeah, yeah.
01:48:57
And I mean, even if you were going to do this, why stop at
01:49:01
night, just make it a one season show.
01:49:05
Give it a full 10 episodes. You could have thrown a little
01:49:08
bit more with the extra 60 Minutes.
01:49:10
Hmm. Yeah.
01:49:12
Hey, you in the path, to relegate these.
01:49:15
To is to basically just being Side characters, especially
01:49:19
student, you know, you started out strong and being just kind
01:49:24
of abandoned in some, for the remaining episodes.
01:49:26
But like I said, he's character picks up his involvement towards
01:49:31
the end of the story. So, yeah, but been hoping
01:49:35
that'll pick up in the show as well.
01:49:38
Yeah, but people who are still fans after that first episode
01:49:41
we'll bill bill just like well damn, he's not hitting it so Why
01:49:45
ever go past episode 4, episode 3 when he's hardly even in it.
01:49:51
Yeah, you know, I mean and and I don't like Carol.
01:49:55
So people who think Harold is a creep.
01:49:57
Why would they keep watching it? Like, oh, he's terrible.
01:50:00
He's terrible, but he's on the screen 50% of the time I'm done
01:50:05
with this and they stop watching it.
01:50:07
That that that's what happens. You know, Franny.
01:50:10
Oh my God, she treats her like crap.
01:50:12
Why are we seeing them all the time?
01:50:14
They're not occur. Coat off.
01:50:16
I'm done with it. Oh Larry.
01:50:18
That's a nice guy. Wait, no, Larry this episode.
01:50:22
I'm done. Yummy.
01:50:24
There's a this lot of places where people would just jump
01:50:27
ship because you're not giving us, you know knows a lot of the
01:50:32
characters and I understand what you're saying.
01:50:34
You're going to give this more stew later, but you you it's
01:50:38
almost like the pacing is such that you don't get enough of it.
01:50:45
Anything. It's like you gave me a plate
01:50:47
with a whole bunch of food, but I like, I like the Thousand
01:50:50
Foods. So I'm going to get like a
01:50:52
little tiny droplet of each piece.
01:50:55
That's not satisfying, you can feel me up and I'll be bursting.
01:50:59
But there wasn't anything else, the things I truly enjoyed.
01:51:04
I didn't get enough of right. Looks like Thanksgiving you ever
01:51:08
go to Thanksgiving and your eyes are so big and you see all the
01:51:11
food in like, okay. I'm just gonna get this Boon for
01:51:14
the greens. Before the potato salad a little
01:51:18
spoonful of potato souffle. A little piece of turkey, a
01:51:22
little piece of ham, a little piece of fried chili, you sure
01:51:25
your plate up with all this food.
01:51:28
You don't enjoy any of it. Yeah.
01:51:31
That's how I feel. The stand is Thanksgiving dinner
01:51:38
at Grandma's house where she could everything.
01:51:41
Yeah. And not enough all the same
01:51:44
time. Why don't you want to enjoy it?
01:51:50
You want to delete the things about it that you like, but
01:51:54
there just isn't enough Fair Justice.
01:52:01
Well, I have four more episodes. And at this point, it's too late
01:52:09
for us to pull out. Like we got, we got to see it
01:52:10
through now, so I will see you through.
01:52:12
Oh, good or bad. We're here for the ride.
01:52:15
So, I think at this point, we said all we needed to say and
01:52:21
we'll just pick this up next week, for the next episode.
01:52:25
So for now, that's it for our show.
01:52:28
You can find us online at www.haddadhyundai.com., We are
01:52:32
on social media on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at fandom
01:52:36
hybrid. You can listen to us on Spotify,
01:52:39
Apple podcast, Google podcast Stitcher.
01:52:42
I heart radio and other major podcast streaming platforms.
01:52:46
Thanks for listening. We hope to join the conversation
01:52:49
next time.