#agathaallalong With only 3 of the coven remaining, Agatha, Billy, and Jen must figure out how to get through the final trial. Jen finds out the truth about her binding, Billy unlocks his memories, and Agatha is reminded of her greatest sorrow. A long overdue struggle results in an unexpected sacrifice. A path is laid for the future.
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What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode
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of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I am here
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with Anthony, Michelle and Mike, and we are discussing Agatha all
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along, episodes 8:00 and 9:00. And I'm going to start this off
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by saying I finally did go back and at least re watch the first.
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I think I got through the 1st 4 1/2 episode and I've changed my
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opinion just a little bit. But it's because I realized what
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was bothering me more than anything, and it wasn't really
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the story because I realized I wasn't paying as much attention
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as I should have been because there was some clues that were
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right there in my face that went completely over my head.
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But I figured it out. It's Katherine Hahn's acting.
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It's like certain things that she does, and I think we touched
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upon this in the last episode, but also certain facial
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expressions she's making. And also it feels like, I think
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I had this conversation with Anthony.
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It almost feels like she's breaking the 4th wall without
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breaking the 4th wall. Like every time she does
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something or says something that's not completely whatever,
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it's almost like she's supposed to turn to the TV and go so that
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we know what she's, you know, what she's intimating.
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And I don't know, something about it took me out of, it took
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me out of the show. It took me out of her being this
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character to her being this actress playing this character.
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And I just, I just couldn't get over it.
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And it really, I was, I, I have a whole page of notes from just
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the first few episodes where I was like, how did I miss all of
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this? I didn't pay attention to none
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of it. And it was because I was so
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irritated. And I was just like, OK, so I
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guess she's just going to have to be in one of those categories
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of actresses or actors that I just really don't care for the
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way that she brings her characters to screen.
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And now that I've had have that in my mind, I'm like, OK, I can
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enjoy the show a little bit more.
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So I do enjoy it a little bit more on the second go around.
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There's still some problems that I have with it, but overall, I
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don't dislike it as much as I did when we discussed the 1st 5
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episodes. So cool, glad.
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To hear it, thank you. Come on over to the train.
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I'm not coming over to the train.
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I don't, I don't want you over to the train, you grump, you
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grouch. I was.
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I was grouch. I was going to say maybe I was a
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little harsh. Nah, I, I don't think I was a
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little harsh. My, my opinion still stands
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about those first 4 episodes. I, I, I will give him credit.
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The last the the last part, the last half to 3rd of the show was
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really good. Yeah, those last few episodes
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were really good. I I still think those first 4
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episodes could have been better than what they were.
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This is my. Yeah.
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And I'm, I'm really impressed because when we discussed the
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last two episodes, Anthony actually had a theory.
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And I don't think he posited it as a theory, but it was just
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something that he was talking about the show and how the show
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was being viewed. And he was like, I think this
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could be something that's a part of teams, you know, something
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that he's done just like Wanda did, where he created the road,
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where, you know, what Agatha was saying earlier on that the road
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didn't exist. It really didn't exist in that
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kind of influenced the way that she was acting because she was
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trying to figure things out on the fly.
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And Anthony had not seen Anthony and I had not seen that last
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episode before them. Mike had.
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But Anthony, I'm going to tell you, I'm so impressed because
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once it was coming together, I was like, wait.
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And then when I went back and watched the first episode, I was
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like, let me tell you my notes. So even the intro card for the
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show, I didn't even pay attention to the fact that it
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said Agnes of Westview. I didn't pay attention to her
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last name being different. I didn't pay attention to it
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being the neighbors actual names.
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I didn't pay attention to any of that stuff.
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And then as we go along through some of the other stuff, like I
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said, once teen got in there and I noticed something was
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different, I was like, oh, wait, she just dropped this hint.
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So Agatha knew this from very early on that teen conjured
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this. I was like, oh, that that kind
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of did change the whole way I looked at it.
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And I was sitting there. I was like, Anthony literally
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said that that, that, that wait. He also said that that that that
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I was like he know the. The the only thing I know, the
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only. Yeah.
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Thank you. Good job.
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The only thing I got wrong was I thought he was pulling stuff
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from their heads and that and that real was not real but real
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was real. That that was.
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Real. Yeah, real was real.
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That was really real. But but, she tells him in the
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very, very beginning, the real is not real.
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She says it with a straight face.
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She's not playing. She's not hiding.
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She's like the rule is not real and in the beginning you can
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tell she just she had no clue what the hell was going on.
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No, she had no idea. Especially.
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When the door appeared, she was like, wait, what?
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Yeah, right. And that was one of the few
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times that I felt like she was Agatha.
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Yeah. And I wasn't looking at her as
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Catherine playing Agatha. I was like, OK, that's that's
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genuine. So there are certain, certain
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parts where I believe that she was who it was.
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But I still feel like a lot of the times when she was trying to
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be mean or snarky that she was, she was kind of overdoing it.
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And that was getting on my nerves.
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But I I think I've talked that point to them.
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The the other part, the other part was where she was like
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being mean to them when they were trying to open the door.
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She was trying to get them to attack her.
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And now at the time I was like, I was just trying to get them to
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use their power so she can steal.
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Like it was it was that was something that and then the door
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just threw her off. She was like, wait, what?
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What the fuck? Because they didn't attack her.
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So but she. Told Lily her secret.
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Yeah. And then it's like, I mean, it's
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like you can see her frustration.
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She's like, these motherfuckers are coming to kill me.
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Can y'all please fucking let me steal your powers so I can
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defend myself? Like fuck, like hurry the fuck
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up and hit me. And then then it's like, I mean,
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just like the look. I love episode 9 when they were
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when they were like going through her being like the most
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prolific Marvel serial killer of all time and like.
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Killing. And it's like she and her like
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getting mad and looking down, then picking up the sand.
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And it's like, and then she actually did kind of break the
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4th wall. She looked and gave you that
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smirk. You're like, oh, so she's like,
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oh, she's she was, she was playing that shit up like for
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for the first, first couple of trials.
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Then it's like after her trial and she killed Alice, she and
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she told teen that he was just like his mother.
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She was like, OK, I know what you did.
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Go ahead and get this over with so I can get back so we can get
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back to the real world because I'm sick of being here.
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And it's like you could tell in the tarot one when he he didn't
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know what the chariot was. He was like, it's the chariot.
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It's written on the fucking card.
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Can we hear? Can we hear but do this?
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Then she started playing. She started playing slap Jack
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and throwing Carol cards down and having having it rain
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swords. She was just like, she was just
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like, I'm ready to fucking go, let's go, let's go, let's go.
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And it's like she was just so frustrated at that point.
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Then it really came out when she was back at the beginning, she
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was like, how the fuck do I get out of here?
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It's like he tried to explain. She was like, you don't know,
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shut the fuck up. Get the fuck out of here.
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Go back around. And I was like, oh, like, yeah,
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after, after everything. You're like, oh, yeah.
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She's like, I fucking had it. Where's my goddamn house?
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I need to get out of here now. Yeah, see, I, I, I feel you on
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that a little bit. But like, I was getting the
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impression because when you start thinking about it, she
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didn't take every trial seriously.
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It was she, the way she was acting was as if nothing's going
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to happen to me because she's not real and she needs me.
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So she was really just playing along and really, she really
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acts like she didn't really give a fuck away when she started
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throwing the tarot cards down and the swords coming in, She's
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like, I'm not going to die because he's not going to kill
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me. So just kept throwing them down.
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Let's just be done with it. So but but the real big tip off
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was when he wished he was like, I wish Liza was here to help.
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And then boom, she burst the door.
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It's like, yeah. Yeah.
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But she even, I think she figured it out because I I wrote
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it down. Episode 3, when they first get
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into the road and he's looking around, he says, wow, this is
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exactly how I pictured it. And she was like, it suits you.
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And I was like, wait, does she already suspect at that point?
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And then after the first trial, when Missus Hart died, she
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looked, she said, why? I didn't think you had it in
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you. And he was like, who had what in
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in them? And she winked at him.
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She didn't think that he would actually kill somebody.
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But of course, again, he didn't know that this was something he
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was doing. And even the stuff that started
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coming up, like he's creating it on the fly because that's what
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he does. And I think because she had seen
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that before. She was like.
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Mm, hmm. Mm hmm.
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OK. But even at in the very first
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episode, when he tries to tell her who he is and the sigil
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comes up, if you really pay attention, you can hear him.
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It's like, I'm. I'm Billy Maximoff.
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Yeah, But the sigil comes across and I think she was like, come
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again. And when he said his name again,
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she's like, OK. Well, he said William Kaplan at
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first. Then he said, I'm Billy
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Maximoff, like second. Yeah.
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But it I was sitting there looking, I was like, I didn't
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pick up on any of this stuff before because again, I was so
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out of it. And it was only like, again,
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teen Lilia and Jen, those were my three favorite characters.
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And I mean, when I say Jen went off in episode 8, she was so
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good. So she was so good.
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And I was just like, yes, I'm, I'm.
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I feel her anger. I feel what she's feeling.
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And then for the first part of that whole dialogue she had with
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Agatha, Agatha was still being kind of playful.
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Like, say it like, you mean it, Jen.
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And I was like, oh, you getting on my nerves.
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But the more Jen kept saying it and her face started changing
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and you could feel her really feeling it.
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I was like, OK, I'm, I'm back in it now.
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Like I said, she does these weird, she makes these weird
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choices with her acting where it's like half the time you're
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like, what the fuck are you doing?
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And the other half, it's like, oh, I believe that you're in the
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character. Yeah, it's like, shout out to
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Jennifer for actually being a black character and surviving
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the whole thing and being able to get her.
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Power off, family. And taking her, taking her
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agency back from the white woman that bound her.
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But especially with, with, with how things are going right now
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in the real world, I was just like, like that seem brought me
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to tears. I like, I actually actually
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cried a little bit watching her. It's like getting, getting in,
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getting yourself back and, and, and actually feeling yourself
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like I, I felt that I was like, that's pretty fucking awesome.
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I mean, I will give it to Agatha, though.
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Once she realized what the situation was, she did seem like
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she genuinely felt bad. She was like, I didn't know it
00:13:14
was you. I, I used to cast spells for
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banknotes back in the 1920s. I didn't, you know, when, when
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she mentioned Boston, she was like, oh, that's what happened.
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So when she says I deny your power over me and she says you
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hold nothing, you hold nothing, you hold nothing.
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She's still kind of sitting there defying it.
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And the more that Jen looked at her and just kept saying it, you
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see her whole face change. And I was just like, OK, she
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feels, she feels what she has done in this moment.
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And she, I feel like in that moment, she really understood
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because wasn't that the same thing Wanda did to you for three
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years? This woman has been bound for
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100 years. Fucking.
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Years. So what you went through is
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nothing compared to what this woman went through.
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And I think Agatha really felt it in that moment.
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I was like, oh, OK, I can get with this.
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The way she helped Billy at the end do what he was supposed to
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do. So let me ask a question about
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this. Does this mean that when he said
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he could feel Billy, he knew Billy was around but he couldn't
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find him? And then everything that Agatha
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did at the end, does that mean that he was holding on to Billy
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in his mind that whole time? I think he he was, he was inside
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of his. He held him up.
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I don't know is he either had him.
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In his. In his conscious he had his
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consciousness. Yeah, that's that's what I'm
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saying. They.
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Were in their consciousness where I.
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Think so I. Believe so.
00:15:01
I believe he was always there. He just, she helped him.
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Release him. Yeah.
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Release him and find the place. For him.
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So when he found a body, he just took him with him.
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Yeah, he grabbed on to him. OK, Yeah.
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Because I went when when she figured that out and that whole
00:15:22
scene was happening, it didn't really hit me until he said,
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Agatha, am I killing some boy just so my brother could live?
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I was just like, that's. So.
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How do you make that decision? But he wasn't though.
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That boy was going to drown anyway.
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He was dead. That boy was dead.
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Let's. Just make that clear.
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And and and by. The way.
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Can we, can we get those? Can we get those little?
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Can we get those little fucking hooligans locked up for pushing
00:15:47
someone in a damn lake and drowning them and holding them
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under the damn water? Can we park them?
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A. Little off the that actually
00:15:53
happens a lot. Yes, I'm surprised.
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Watch. Tommy Tommy's going to be at
00:15:59
Lake Lanier. Watch.
00:16:03
You know what? Talk about spirits getting their
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events. Exactly.
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See exactly if it's right in, it's like his spirit goes to
00:16:13
where spirits hang around and then next thing you know, it's
00:16:16
like he's like he's out there running around interacting with
00:16:18
all the all the spirits, except they ain't going to do it
00:16:20
because you know, he's white. But then anyway, that's cool.
00:16:25
Yeah. But OK.
00:16:29
The other part of this whole final trial that I think did
00:16:35
finally get me was Agatha figuring out what she needed to
00:16:40
do in order to, you know, get through the trial and get out of
00:16:45
the room. Because even up till that point,
00:16:49
we still don't know the truth about what happened to her son.
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You know, Billy has asked her. Rio has, you know, Rio has said
00:16:59
something to her about it. And you see her keep avoiding
00:17:02
the topic. But whenever she was thinking
00:17:07
about her son, that's another part where I felt pulled into
00:17:10
the story, 'cause I was like, OK, something didn't happen the
00:17:15
way that everybody says it did. Because Rio asked her, why do
00:17:18
you let these people think? Why do you let them think these
00:17:20
things about you? And I think at this point,
00:17:23
acting is just kind of like, because it really doesn't
00:17:25
matter. What did she say?
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Because the truth is worse. And what's the truth?
00:17:30
That that my son was taken by the person that I love.
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That's a. Whole I think, I think it hurts
00:17:38
more. That hurts her more.
00:17:40
It's like she'd rather she'd rather have people.
00:17:42
She'd rather have people think that she's a bitch than just to
00:17:47
have pity on her for losing her son when he's only 6 and she
00:17:50
doesn't want to even think about him.
00:17:52
She'd rather think about, have think about.
00:17:54
She'd rather just be like, whatever I'm I'm not even
00:17:56
thinking about thinking about that.
00:17:58
And I think also to the fact that she's this powerful witch
00:18:02
and she couldn't do anything to save him.
00:18:05
That's got that's got to eat at her too.
00:18:08
It does and. Her girlfriend took and her
00:18:10
girlfriend took him. Yeah, yeah.
00:18:12
But I don't still don't like what happened afterwards.
00:18:15
So I guess that's what my problem is.
00:18:17
I'm not feeling the same energy y'all feeling right now because
00:18:20
I'm a little bit upset. Which part?
00:18:22
Just. OK.
00:18:23
I yeah, I feel bad that you lost your son.
00:18:26
I definitely do. But you can you taking and
00:18:28
killing all the witches. See, I was hoping that didn't
00:18:31
happen. I wanted a different story for
00:18:33
her. OK, so we just turned around and
00:18:36
made her. But what?
00:18:39
But wasn't you the one that said when?
00:18:41
Because I said I feel like there's more to Agatha's
00:18:44
character than her being this evil.
00:18:47
I I think I said this when we discussed one to five I.
00:18:51
Thought that she just had a bad reputation.
00:18:56
I think we go back and listen. I think you said no, Agatha is
00:19:02
evil. She doesn't need a redemption
00:19:04
story. She doesn't need.
00:19:05
Anything. No, I just said she was
00:19:07
different. I was me.
00:19:09
Yeah, 'cause I was saying I just said she doesn't need a
00:19:11
redemption story because I thought she was just normal.
00:19:15
And that witches attacker, she can't help but take their power.
00:19:20
You know what I'm saying? She got caught up and every time
00:19:22
it happens people say it was her fault.
00:19:25
That's what I was saying and that's.
00:19:28
What I. Thought but they talked her into
00:19:31
a bad witch they. Didn't turn her into a bad
00:19:33
witch, so no. She was that she's been that
00:19:35
way, didn't hear her mom say her mom said that her mom.
00:19:38
Said that her mom just misunderstood her because she
00:19:41
takes. Mom understood perfectly, I
00:19:43
think. Her her mom.
00:19:44
Her mom probably was a seek saw into the future and saw with
00:19:48
her. Which basically which basically.
00:19:52
Means and saw saw her daughter. Anyway, 'cause you dated death.
00:19:55
So I should have just just stopped.
00:19:57
Started with that part right there.
00:19:59
So she wasn't a nice hold on, hold on before.
00:20:02
Before we go into this train, so I want to 1st 'cause he listens
00:20:06
to the show, I want to give the shout out to our secret member,
00:20:09
podcast member, Nick. Nick because you know, Nick and
00:20:13
I went back and forth about this and Nick was like, oh, you know,
00:20:16
she's really good. And, you know, maybe she's the
00:20:19
person that wants people to think that she's evil and really
00:20:23
good and, and, you know, she's the one that they were like,
00:20:25
kick a cat in the block or No, no, no, Nick.
00:20:28
No, Nick, so just. Grab the cat and they bury the
00:20:34
cat because that's the kind of person she, she was a murderous
00:20:38
witch before she had the baby and she was a murderous witch
00:20:41
after she had the baby. Because there's some people who
00:20:43
are saying, oh, she was only killing the other witches
00:20:47
because she was trying to keep more time with Nicholas.
00:20:51
Now she was doing it before she had them.
00:20:53
She's a serial killer. She's she's a she's a witch
00:20:56
serial killer. Michael call her Wayne Gacy.
00:21:00
With her and she was struggling. She started killing witches,
00:21:03
that was. Well, she did that because she
00:21:05
was trying to keep death away. She's on her body like they
00:21:09
mentioned on the road. OK.
00:21:12
No, she. Was already done, so about that.
00:21:15
Girlfriend in the in when before she had the baby and she.
00:21:18
I have question. Either way, you.
00:21:19
Slice it. Either way you slice it, she's a
00:21:22
lady. I agree with you.
00:21:24
OK, This time I just thought that we wasn't going to go that
00:21:28
direction and we went that direction.
00:21:31
So I was quite disappointed in the last two episodes to be
00:21:35
completely honest, that's all. I'm sorry, what?
00:21:38
We were going to, yes. Because she doesn't want, she
00:21:42
didn't want the narrative that if I, if I'm understanding you
00:21:47
correctly, Michelle, no, I just think you don't want the
00:21:49
narrative of what we've been saying all along, her being evil
00:21:52
just to be evil, right? I'd rather give her son up for
00:21:56
power at this point. If we gonna go bad, let's go
00:22:00
bad. Let's don't go in between.
00:22:03
That's all. What do you mean?
00:22:04
She she went she she killed witches for centuries.
00:22:08
I. How's that been?
00:22:09
Bad she killed. She probably killed witches
00:22:11
before. She killed witches before,
00:22:13
during and after her son was here.
00:22:15
She wanted her to have a reason. She wanted her to have a reason.
00:22:20
Sometimes people ain't got. A reason?
00:22:23
Them to really understand her and realize that they typecast
00:22:27
her as the bad witch and she really wasn't and she was going
00:22:30
to let people believe that because her mom instilled that
00:22:33
in her see I was going a little bit more deeper with this but
00:22:36
now they kept it the way it was she's.
00:22:39
Bad just because she's bad, she's.
00:22:41
Bad she Sometimes people are just bad.
00:22:44
You can't. You can't explain it.
00:22:46
There's no complicated theory for it.
00:22:48
She's just trying to. I get what you're saying, but I
00:22:51
mean, I'm sorry. Pointed to that, she really
00:22:54
wasn't. And that's what I was saying as
00:22:56
well. Yeah, that's what I was saying.
00:22:58
Don't give me that. So yeah, but even.
00:23:02
Billy. Wait, why are you yelling at me?
00:23:04
We didn't. We didn't.
00:23:05
We didn't cool off the off the other.
00:23:06
Ain't nobody yelling, ain't nobody yelling.
00:23:08
Even. Well, I'm on they side now.
00:23:10
So even even Billy. By myself.
00:23:13
Cast her as as the evil witch, you know, even Billy cast her as
00:23:18
as the wicked witch. So even on some level he knew,
00:23:23
you know? Yeah, but then we didn't have to
00:23:25
make it that bad. And I didn't need the montage of
00:23:27
her killing them over centuries and centuries.
00:23:30
I didn't need that. And she looked like she enjoyed
00:23:34
it. She.
00:23:36
Enjoyed it. She loved disasters that she was
00:23:40
president. That we like we made Wanda
00:23:43
crazy, we making her and the just the serial killer.
00:23:48
She was on the Titanic, she was at the Hindenburg disaster not.
00:23:52
Because she was Jolene. I just thought, well, that was
00:23:55
because Death was following her. Like Death wouldn't leave her
00:23:57
alone. So everywhere she went, Death
00:23:59
came and. So here's the question that I
00:24:01
have in regards to death and, and their relationship and
00:24:04
stuff, because you get the you get the idea.
00:24:08
And again, I wasn't feeling it in the first few episodes, but I
00:24:11
kind of felt, I kind of felt it a little bit more in the last
00:24:15
few episodes. So you get the feeling that both
00:24:17
of them loved each other very much.
00:24:19
Like Death really loves Agatha. You could see it when Agatha was
00:24:23
basically rejecting her. You could see how much it was
00:24:25
hurting her. You can see how much it hit it.
00:24:28
It hurt her when she came from Nikki the first time.
00:24:31
But in the first episode when they were arguing with each
00:24:35
other and I I guess it was because the dark hole was was
00:24:41
hiding her from the other witches so Death couldn't find
00:24:44
her either. But Death was like one really
00:24:47
pissed off about not being able to find her but 2 was also very
00:24:51
hell bent on killing her. Do we know if there was a
00:24:55
specific reason that Death was after her or was it just that?
00:24:59
OK, well, since you were supposed to burn at the stake
00:25:02
and you got away, now it's one of those things where I have to
00:25:06
it. It's like a balance thing.
00:25:08
OK, you know, because if we pull.
00:25:11
If we pull a little bit of what death is, how she miss what she
00:25:17
is in the comic books, she doesn't really have the capacity
00:25:22
to care for anyone. But what she does desire are
00:25:27
people that will will give her deaths.
00:25:32
That's why she was in fact not infatuated, but that's why she
00:25:35
was attached to Thanos. And dimples.
00:25:39
She yeah, she corrupted him at a very well.
00:25:43
She knows she got him when he was an infant to to be into her
00:25:48
and and offering up lives to her because you have to realize
00:25:53
she's like a a she's like sort of like not even like the
00:25:59
celestial, sort of just a part of the natural order of things.
00:26:04
So being around in the Thing, they kind of made Agatha with
00:26:09
Thanos was the comic books, because that's kind of what his
00:26:13
whole motivating factor was, appeasing her and trying to
00:26:17
court her by offering her all these deaths or whatever.
00:26:21
And I think she did that too. She was taking, she was taking
00:26:24
that that role that Thanos had. But instead, I think she was
00:26:27
doing at a certain point to keep her away from Nicholas and I.
00:26:32
In her mind that she may have, she may have believed that.
00:26:35
You know they're going to Mensch.
00:26:38
I mean merge things together because for the non comic book
00:26:40
people, you gotta give death some feelings.
00:26:43
She has feelings. I think she really did care for
00:26:46
Agatha. But The thing is when a person
00:26:48
has to go, the person has to go. She.
00:26:52
She cared. She cared as much about Agatha
00:26:54
as a book. He cares for his gambler.
00:26:56
But. I'm but that's you going through
00:26:58
the converse. They giving her a little bit
00:27:00
more depth here. OK, but.
00:27:01
If you follow everything Marvel does, they still take elements
00:27:06
of the. I'm just saying they added they
00:27:08
gave her a little bit more depth that she actually probably did
00:27:10
care for someone and that's why the only reason actor is to this
00:27:14
point. And you know what, Michelle,
00:27:17
what you just said makes a lot of sense because if if she was
00:27:22
using those deaths, if she was luring, you know, not that she
00:27:26
was doing it to steal the witch's power, yet she was doing
00:27:29
it for selfish reasons. But if she was also doing that
00:27:33
to placate death, then that would make sense for why death
00:27:38
chose that particular time to come from Nikki.
00:27:40
Because remember, they were in the village earlier and she was
00:27:44
trying to do it and Nikki didn't want to do it anymore.
00:27:47
And it was that same night that she came for him.
00:27:50
So actually make a whole lot of sense.
00:27:53
So this is the thing that that death, death would be like, OK,
00:27:58
well, that's what if she thinks that I'm just going to like not
00:28:02
come get Nikki because she's killing all these witches.
00:28:05
She can believe that and not just let her kill him.
00:28:07
And then when Nikki basically convinced her to stop doing it
00:28:12
and this was like, well, I have no reason to keep him around.
00:28:15
So she went and got well because and all of it.
00:28:18
Did I mean she's a natural order of things.
00:28:20
His time has been up to be completely.
00:28:22
Right, but. If but she I think she did care.
00:28:25
See, I agree with what you're saying, but I'm adding the extra
00:28:31
layer that Marvel tends to do. So you're still keeping it with
00:28:35
the Marvel level, but they actually give you that bonus
00:28:38
whipped cream at the top, which is that she actually did care
00:28:41
for Agatha enough to leave her son-in-law because she was
00:28:44
getting those bodies. But if you're not giving me the
00:28:47
bodies, it's his time. It's like it's been his time.
00:28:50
Like how old was this little boy?
00:28:52
6, It's been 6 years. I gave you time and I told you
00:28:56
from the beginning that I'm going to come and I can't tell
00:29:01
you how much time I'm going to give you, but you gave me bodies
00:29:05
and I care for you but I had to take them just like now I have
00:29:08
to take you. You are past your expiration
00:29:10
date. Like I love you, but you are
00:29:12
like completely past your expiration date.
00:29:15
Also, while she was under the spell, it's like she wasn't, she
00:29:18
wasn't giving death any bodies. It's like like death is like I,
00:29:23
I have a theory that I'm sorry, I have a theory that Agatha and
00:29:27
death, other than a relationship, I think they
00:29:30
actually had an arrangement where that's the whole reason
00:29:33
that Agatha killed so many witches was because her and
00:29:37
death had a relate. Her and death had a deal where
00:29:39
she kept giving her bodies and and they would like just out of
00:29:44
love or just, you know, to keep her going.
00:29:47
Like, you know, I won't come. I won't come for you personally
00:29:50
if you keep giving me bodies. But I think after Nikki dies she
00:29:54
I. I seriously doubt Agatha.
00:29:55
I'm talking about in the first. After that I'm talking about
00:29:59
after that when she kept killing people like even even death of
00:30:03
death probably like well, OK, I'm I still took him but it but
00:30:07
she was still giving her body so she's like, well, I'll leave you
00:30:09
alone for now. So but when she.
00:30:11
Couldn't find her. She couldn't find her because of
00:30:13
the dark hole. She said something about that in
00:30:15
the 1st episode. Right.
00:30:17
But after, after When did that? When?
00:30:18
Did that occur though? When did what occur?
00:30:23
When did she eat the dark hole? Probably sometime in the 1750s
00:30:27
cause Nikki was born in 1750. Agatha had the dark hold for
00:30:35
what, 200 years? Yeah, I was just trying to
00:30:38
figure out because she still was killing those people, I feel
00:30:40
like before. At that point, she probably was
00:30:42
just doing it just because she wanted to do it.
00:30:44
She was angry. And at that point she has
00:30:47
nothing. Like there's nothing stopping
00:30:50
her. But Death wouldn't need to look
00:30:52
for her because if if Death is finding a circle of bodies of
00:30:57
witches. You know what?
00:31:03
I think that's kind. I think that's kind of a plot
00:31:05
hole. Because she was.
00:31:07
He died in 1750. Nicholas. 1756. 1756 and so
00:31:15
she's been she's been killing witches since then.
00:31:21
If she got the, if she got the dark hold in like 200 something
00:31:26
years ago, it just seems like I would, I wish they would have
00:31:31
put it. I wish they would have put it
00:31:32
in. I wish they would have mentioned
00:31:34
it or, or like, but they didn't. They they, they, they never
00:31:37
showed how she got the dark hole.
00:31:39
And she obviously didn't get it by trading her son.
00:31:41
So it's like it's kind of, it's kind of a, it's kind of a
00:31:44
hanging thread where it's like, yeah, this is like a hanging
00:31:47
thread in your back. Like how?
00:31:49
Well, you know what I would think maybe, OK, if we're, if
00:31:53
we're going with this theory that Death actually does care
00:31:56
for Agatha, like she actually loves her.
00:31:59
Maybe once she took Nikki, she felt like, OK, let me leave her
00:32:03
alone for a bit because she didn't want to do it.
00:32:06
You could see that in her face the first time she saw her and
00:32:09
she was just basically like, I don't want to do this but I have
00:32:13
to do this because again, it's the natural order of things.
00:32:16
So once you what? What was it that Agatha told
00:32:19
her? She was like, if you do this, I
00:32:20
will hate you forever. OK, I'll give you a few years.
00:32:24
And like we said, as long as she was flying bodies, death was
00:32:27
good. But that one time Nikki was
00:32:30
like, I don't want to do this anymore.
00:32:31
We can kill witches tomorrow. I think Agatha at that point
00:32:35
realized if Nikki stopped her once, there was no way he was
00:32:39
going to go back to doing that because he had been questioning
00:32:42
her about this ever since, you know, that we saw.
00:32:45
So this was something he didn't want to do.
00:32:47
Now she probably didn't tell him about what the arrangement was
00:32:55
or whatever, but she knew when he told her.
00:32:59
Hey, we can, we don't have to do this today.
00:33:01
We can kill the witches tomorrow.
00:33:03
She did say something to him about I don't know how much time
00:33:06
I have with you. I can't, you know, I can do all
00:33:08
this stuff with my magic. I can't cure what ails you.
00:33:12
I can't give you more time, and I don't know when she'll come
00:33:15
for you. I really think Agatha had an
00:33:19
inkling that Death might come for him.
00:33:22
If you look at the way she treated him that night, she was
00:33:26
very She was very touchy feely with him.
00:33:29
She was very motherly. She was very like she was
00:33:33
treating him like it would be the last time she saw him.
00:33:37
Even the way that she. Slept.
00:33:38
She slept with him all up under him like she.
00:33:41
She hadn't had him wrapped. Up and like, like like she was
00:33:43
trying to hold on to him so it wouldn't.
00:33:45
Go. So I think she she kind of
00:33:47
figured the time was coming close.
00:33:51
And then with the way that it happened, like, OK, you're deaf.
00:33:56
You ain't supposed to be scared of nobody.
00:33:58
If you really wanted to hurt Agatha, if that was really your
00:34:01
MO, you could have taken Nikki while Agatha was right there
00:34:05
watching, while she was pleading with you, just to be done with
00:34:09
it. She didn't have the guts to face
00:34:11
Agatha, I don't think, because of what she feels for her.
00:34:15
She was like, OK, you know what? I'm going to take him, but take
00:34:19
him beyond Death's door. And then I'm just going to leave
00:34:21
her alone, let her kill the witches, let her be angry,
00:34:26
whatever. Let her do it 'cause I think at
00:34:29
this point Death is like, OK, I owe her that much.
00:34:32
I I should give her that much. But you've been, you've been
00:34:37
hitting for 200 years now. I'm pissed because.
00:34:41
Yeah, my, my, the, the reason why it's hard for me to wrap my
00:34:45
head around that concept is in the comic books, death only does
00:34:50
things that would maximize the number of deaths that occur.
00:34:56
So if she, if you believe that you love her and she loves you,
00:35:00
and that's going to cause you to create more deaths, then of
00:35:03
course she's going to be like, oh, yeah, I love you.
00:35:05
I care for you so much, but she's actually indifferent to it
00:35:09
as long as you continue to give her bodies.
00:35:12
But if you look at her, if you look at her facial expression,
00:35:16
then that's look at the way that she acts.
00:35:18
Oh yeah, she's a great actress. She cares about action, but you
00:35:23
got to go that. Is awesome.
00:35:25
She's a great actress. But you can still fall in love
00:35:27
with one of your. But no, she can still fall in
00:35:30
love with one of her minions. Who's giving her, who's giving
00:35:33
her death? She still can fall in love with
00:35:35
one of them. We we got to give her more
00:35:37
death. Death.
00:35:39
OK. Definitely.
00:35:41
Not clear cut. OK, Yeah, it was.
00:35:44
Death, Death. Death.
00:35:45
Death, Death. Death, like give her some extra
00:35:49
like, that's the one thing I do love about Marvel doing now is
00:35:52
giving a little more Death into a person.
00:35:58
Seeing a person. Killing more people.
00:35:59
Being objects, you know what I mean.
00:36:03
OK, I do have a comic book related question that kind of
00:36:06
sort of has to do with this show is gonna go way off left field.
00:36:10
But we we heard mention of it in in the first episode.
00:36:16
Did I read correctly that Mephisto is actually Agatha's
00:36:22
father? No, that I did not.
00:36:28
No, OK, I saw that somewhere and I was like.
00:36:34
OK, I mean, I didn't look it up, but I.
00:36:38
Don't know, OK. I was just wondering, 'cause it,
00:36:42
it came across, it came across my news feed on, I forgot one of
00:36:47
the sites and I was just like, I have not heard Anthony nor
00:36:51
Michael mention this at all. And I feel like if that was the
00:36:57
case, that's something, if, if not Anthony, that's something
00:37:00
might definitely would have meant.
00:37:01
I would have yelled that shit. I would have been, I would have
00:37:04
been like, hell yeah. But Daddy confirmed.
00:37:07
Daddy confirmed. Two children are black heart and
00:37:13
Gray light. Yeah, OK.
00:37:15
Yeah. Her her father's never been
00:37:17
identified. See if the thing about the thing
00:37:19
about Agatha Harkness is she's really like not even AD list
00:37:24
character in the combo list. She she's never had a series
00:37:29
dedicated to her. She's never even had a one shot
00:37:31
as a like she's literally just a side character side character.
00:37:39
OK. She's like a she's like, she's
00:37:40
like a she's like Mr. Miyagi for witches, basically.
00:37:42
It's like she does. She's not, she's not going to
00:37:45
be. She's something, someone, you
00:37:46
know, but she's not someone who's going to be out there
00:37:48
because she basically just counsels witches and shows them
00:37:52
how to be better witches. That's basically all she did in
00:37:55
the comic books. She just got a bigger she she
00:37:58
got a bigger platform just because of how Katherine Hahn
00:38:01
played her in one division. Yeah, but.
00:38:03
So she went a totally opposite way.
00:38:05
She was helping and guiding witches to just completely
00:38:08
destroying and killing them. Well, I, I guess that's what
00:38:13
that's what Anthony was saying, that they gave her that they
00:38:17
gave her what Thanos was doing in the comic book.
00:38:20
So that would make sense if that's the case.
00:38:22
Well, she was she, I guess she would be like chaotic and
00:38:26
neutral. Like she wasn't really good or
00:38:29
bad. It was like, oh scary witch, you
00:38:33
are very, very powerful, but your shit is kind of wild.
00:38:36
Let me kind of help you out here.
00:38:39
And see, that's what I wanted for her.
00:38:40
I really wanted complete Gray for her.
00:38:42
I really did. I wanted the neutral.
00:38:46
She's straight chaos. Like she thrives on that shit.
00:38:48
It's like she that's why she went on the road.
00:38:51
She was like, oh, this is going to be chaotic as fuck.
00:38:53
I'm in, let's go. And This is why she went along
00:38:56
with Wanda in one division. And she's like, oh, I can, I can
00:39:00
act a fool and do all this other shit and then pretend to be all
00:39:02
this other stuff and wear spandex and shit.
00:39:04
Hell yeah, let's do this. Let's see where this goes.
00:39:08
That's basically her mantra is like, let's see where this goes.
00:39:11
That's why when I was arguing back and forth with Nick, I
00:39:14
would accept that she would be chaotic neutral, because then
00:39:17
everything she does is really for her benefit, whether it be
00:39:21
good or evil. But no, she's chaotic evil,
00:39:24
Yeah. I mean, you can't, we can't even
00:39:28
bounce back from that. If it was like 2-3 rounds while
00:39:32
you had Nicholas, OK, while you had Nicholas, you did it.
00:39:35
I can't understand. But when it was over, like you
00:39:38
went on a complete world tour. Yep, all based on a song she
00:39:43
made-up. Conversely, though, if you if
00:39:46
you think about it, I mean it, she out she was to do what she's
00:39:53
doing. Like even if it was for her
00:39:56
kids, she's still like kill. She's using her using your kid
00:39:59
to kill people like that mean that's that's straight up evil
00:40:03
anyway. Oh, that's like a whole other
00:40:05
therapy session. That's a whole other therapy
00:40:08
session. Understand if you're trying to
00:40:09
keep your kid alive, I do. Not using him to do it though,
00:40:15
that's. Why?
00:40:17
Hey, you trying to keep him alive?
00:40:20
You just don't know. You just don't know how well.
00:40:22
Turn it into a 7. How the?
00:40:25
7 is not bad to me. They're not really bad.
00:40:28
The seven, they, they, they really do need to come and kill
00:40:31
her. No, they need therapy.
00:40:33
The the seven need therapy like because why do they?
00:40:36
Need therapy. Their life was destroyed by.
00:40:40
Their parents got their parents got killed.
00:40:42
It's like they they could, they could have gone to a therapist
00:40:45
and been like and say I want to kill her.
00:40:47
Should I kill her? And if there's been like no.
00:40:49
When you find out that the person that killed your parents
00:40:52
is a serial, in your own words, Mike a witch is a killer killer.
00:40:58
There ain't enough therapy in the world.
00:41:00
That is a vengeance tour. That is revenge that is.
00:41:04
We need just sure she doesn't do this to anybody else.
00:41:09
I'm trying. I'm just trying.
00:41:09
I'm just trying to find a different solution.
00:41:11
I'm sorry, I'm just trying. No, I mean, that's the solution
00:41:15
right there. They should have killed.
00:41:16
And then after all of this, after her helping Jen, her
00:41:22
helping Billy, when she gets to the end and she realized she
00:41:25
can't whoop Death's ass, then she's like, Oh yeah, OK, take
00:41:29
the boy excuse. After he, after he, after he
00:41:35
powered her up. I really thought she was going
00:41:38
to redeem herself. I was like, Oh my gosh, she's
00:41:40
going to save this boy. The.
00:41:41
Only reason she did it, the only reason why she did it was
00:41:46
because when he got in her head and said is this what happened
00:41:49
to Nikki? She was like, I can't do this to
00:41:52
another boy. I think that's the only thing
00:41:54
that's like that small piece of I'm not even going to call it
00:41:57
redemption. I'm going to call it regret.
00:42:00
She was like, OK, get away. I can't do this.
00:42:02
But beforehand, she just threw him out there.
00:42:04
There you go, Deaf. I'm good.
00:42:07
Yeah, I. Think about like think about
00:42:09
like this. This is the second time that
00:42:11
Wiccan has mentioned Nicholas and she's had pause.
00:42:15
The first time was when was when she was she was draining Alice
00:42:19
and he did that a little bit. If you were done that a little
00:42:21
bit earlier, he probably could. No, actually this is the third
00:42:24
time. Then, because he asked her.
00:42:25
He asked her after she recovered from his injury.
00:42:30
He asked her, he said what really happened to your son.
00:42:33
And she, she got up and she made her snarky thing.
00:42:37
You hurry up and recover 'cause we need to keep going.
00:42:40
Well, yeah, yeah. So that's the third time.
00:42:42
I, I was talking about like stuff where, where like, where
00:42:45
like powers were kind of involved, like where, where,
00:42:48
where like certain, like, you know, like, like where certain
00:42:51
death was getting ready to happen, like like where she was
00:42:54
killing Alice or where death was getting ready to take him and
00:42:57
she end up end up getting the kiss of death and, and so and
00:43:02
turning and turning into problem.
00:43:04
Best psycho psychoactive mushrooms ever.
00:43:07
If you ever got it, I. I I was looking, I was looking
00:43:12
at it when they, when they started sprouting.
00:43:14
I was like, man, those shits will blow your.
00:43:17
When she told her, she said why don't you plant something while
00:43:19
you had it? Yeah, she's like, yeah, plant
00:43:21
some azaleas while you had it. So.
00:43:24
What? So what so Sparky can eat him
00:43:25
again? She can see see get boner get
00:43:29
get Ralph Boulder to feed Sparky Sparky some more.
00:43:31
Like damn. He's dead now.
00:43:34
I will say this Wiccan's superhero costume reveal, I
00:43:42
loved it. I love it the way that he just
00:43:44
can't kind of came in there. I loved it because I was like,
00:43:48
he is very much channeling his mother right now.
00:43:52
Yeah, just comic accurate too. It's comic accurate too.
00:43:55
With some vision in there too. Yeah.
00:43:58
And his mother, 'cause I like how because in the comics,
00:44:02
Wiccan only has a headband. It's just like a solid headband.
00:44:06
It's not the crown that Wanda had on, OK?
00:44:10
Like, like, like the crown that he has on in the show.
00:44:13
I actually like that change. I think that that was a really
00:44:16
good change. It looks good it.
00:44:18
Looks good on him. So like naturally towards the
00:44:21
end of the show I'm like, OK, so when we gonna see him again,
00:44:26
'cause. Probably Vision Quest.
00:44:31
Oh yeah, but Vision Quest is not coming out till 2026, right?
00:44:39
Yeah, when young younger visuals they coming out till 2020.
00:44:41
Eight or something. Then they need They haven't even
00:44:43
scheduled Young Avengers yet. OK, Yeah.
00:44:46
We, we don't, we're, we're, we're teasing, we're fooling
00:44:48
ourselves by thinking that's going to come soon.
00:44:50
So let's just focus on stuff that actually is closer to
00:44:53
coming, which is vision quest. I mean, shit, he might, he might
00:44:56
be. No, I don't think gonna be in
00:44:58
Secret Wars. I that I can't really think of
00:45:02
off the top of my head. I can't think of anything coming
00:45:04
up that they could be in. But but I think that I know that
00:45:09
Vision Quest it Vision quest makes the most sense because I
00:45:13
mean, vision is technically their dad, their daddy.
00:45:17
They share wiring or whatever. And it's like you kind of have
00:45:21
to be there. There's a connection there.
00:45:24
So I mean, there could be, I mean, I can't really think of
00:45:30
anywhere else that they could, they could really come in unless
00:45:33
they try to shoehorn them in, which I hope they don't.
00:45:36
I just want them to create something that where they
00:45:38
actually fit conveniently into instead of being forced in.
00:45:42
Like, you know, right? I've had enough of that.
00:45:46
OK, so I think the only thing that really bothered me about
00:45:52
this episode, and it's it's like a small thing, but it's one of
00:45:56
those things that I caught. If you thinking, and Michelle
00:46:00
will tell you, I have an issue with timelines.
00:46:02
Like I have to figure out how things match up and stuff like
00:46:06
that. So she makes the mention when
00:46:10
she's trying to teach him how to how to find Billy.
00:46:16
She was like, imagine you're in your bedroom, you're 10 years
00:46:20
old. William Kaplan was 13 when the
00:46:24
car accident happened. So there's there's a three-year
00:46:28
age difference. So that means that although
00:46:31
William Kaplan is 16 right now, Billy is only 13 and he has a
00:46:38
boyfriend, an older boyfriend. That's just it's, it's a little
00:46:44
icky to me. You think you're thinking about
00:46:46
the wrong. Thing no eat himself up we have
00:46:49
had this conversation with invisible and yes so it it's one
00:46:58
of those things that stuck out to me like he.
00:47:01
Beat himself up. I mean like literally over a day
00:47:05
he went from a toddler to a 10 year old.
00:47:08
Yeah, so he can age himself up. So that means that technically
00:47:12
speaking, he's younger than that, which makes it.
00:47:15
Worse. See you see your your, your
00:47:17
regret. You're 30.
00:47:18
Days old I. Mean, Nicole, you're
00:47:20
snowballing. Hold on, Wait a minute.
00:47:22
Just slow them slowly Rolls. I'm just saying it's very weird.
00:47:26
So really, how old is he? Because how long has Agatha been
00:47:30
under the spell? She's.
00:47:32
Been under the spell spell for three years.
00:47:35
Three years. He literally went from birth to
00:47:38
age 10 in a matter of a couple of weeks I believe.
00:47:43
OK, so he's really three years old.
00:47:47
Yes. So that's why you can't think
00:47:49
about like that he. Aged up because that means that
00:47:51
means that means that means boyfriend boyfriend's a sexual
00:47:54
predator and we can't have that so it's.
00:47:56
Like he's mature enough. He aged up, he aged himself up,
00:48:01
OK, because he had to to get into that, to be in that mind
00:48:05
frame and that body. He aged up and he he's the only
00:48:10
person who can do that. Yeah, him and his brother are
00:48:12
the only people who can do that and like and and adjust because.
00:48:17
The show In the show, did they age themselves up or did she age
00:48:22
them up? No, they aged themselves.
00:48:26
They aged, did they? That that that's a sticky wicked
00:48:29
because it could. Be OK.
00:48:31
You know what, let's not go there.
00:48:32
I'm I'm sorry I brought it up because.
00:48:36
She probably because they them up.
00:48:38
Yeah, they, they because they looked at each other.
00:48:40
They looked at each other and smiled.
00:48:41
And then they aged up. It's like they aged themselves
00:48:44
up twice like that. They then because.
00:48:47
Yeah. Because she was Wanda.
00:48:49
Was like no, no, no, no. Wanda was like don't do it.
00:48:51
Don't do it. Don't do.
00:48:52
It Yeah. And they Billy.
00:48:53
Dee And they did, yeah. Yeah, OK.
00:48:56
So they can age themselves up. No, he can age himself up.
00:48:58
So that's, that's how that fixed that for you.
00:49:00
He aged himself up. OK, OK, I, I, I can go with
00:49:04
that. But some.
00:49:06
Some some some things writers just don't think about.
00:49:08
They just kind of just go along with where they need to go and.
00:49:11
Try, you know, it's one of those conversations that we always
00:49:14
have when it comes to like vampires, like Vampire Diaries,
00:49:18
you know, 150 year old vampires going to high school, Twilight
00:49:24
Drag. I mean, you always think about.
00:49:26
This when you're. Talking about, there's one of
00:49:30
those things that you kind of, it's weird because you're
00:49:33
thinking about this like, OK, this is an immortal character.
00:49:36
Or if you thinking about like Monster girl and and Rudy and
00:49:42
invincible, it's like, OK, but what are they supposed to do?
00:49:45
Like they, they can't really date somebody in their age range
00:49:49
because like with Monster girl, she's 25, but she looks 12.
00:49:53
So it's always one of those things.
00:49:56
And I think that's something that people need to talk about
00:49:59
more because everybody's like, oh, that's 150 year old vampire.
00:50:04
They sitting there, you know, trying to date a high school
00:50:07
girl that's being predator. Who the fuck are they supposed
00:50:10
to date? If that was the age they were
00:50:12
when they died? I think, Anthony, I think you
00:50:15
always say this, a lot of people, they get stuck in that
00:50:19
trauma from around that time. So it's just, it's just one of
00:50:23
those weird things. Not vampires, they grow with
00:50:28
time, you understand they mature.
00:50:31
It is sticky with them though. OK but who nobody supposed to
00:50:35
date because they all dead. So that is true.
00:50:38
They have they can't like I'm not going.
00:50:40
I'm looking like I'm like a fresh 19 year old.
00:50:43
I'm not going to see her and date an 80 year old that's going
00:50:45
to die next week. Some people do now, but yeah,
00:50:54
OK, we can, we can, we can get rid of, we can go move forward
00:50:58
from this, this age. That they may have, I think they
00:51:02
thought about it, but you just answer your question like they
00:51:06
showed us in one division that Billy could age up when he
00:51:10
wanted to. So it is an explanation for if
00:51:14
they never kind of showed that, then I would be with you with
00:51:18
OK, he's 10 and a 13 year old body.
00:51:22
Then when the 13 year old turns into 16, he's 13 dating an 18
00:51:26
year old. That's a little bit.
00:51:29
That's like a going into high school, dating someone leaving
00:51:31
high school. But yeah, yeah, 'cause I was
00:51:38
going to say that, that'll turn into a whole different
00:51:41
conversation. Billy aged himself up so he is
00:51:44
currently 16. Yeah, OK, We'll, we'll just go
00:51:48
with that. OK.
00:51:50
Moving on, moving on from that. Agatha is a ghost.
00:51:55
Do we really? Do we?
00:51:57
Really. But that, but that, that's her.
00:51:59
That's her main form in the comments though.
00:52:03
She's Gray haired and she's a ghost.
00:52:05
OK. OK.
00:52:05
Thank you. Because I didn't like that
00:52:07
either. And, and it's not that I don't
00:52:10
like it because, OK, she exists as a ghost, which I kind of feel
00:52:15
like maybe that was what she was trying to do.
00:52:17
She was like, OK, let me get one over on death.
00:52:20
And then at the same time, let me still exist in a powerful
00:52:24
form. I don't know how that's going to
00:52:26
go, 'cause I don't know how ghosts in this particular
00:52:30
universe, in this particular world, just how much, how useful
00:52:35
they can be. I mean, we saw she had to get
00:52:37
like really emotional and angry in order to even be able to pick
00:52:41
up the brooch. But it's like ghost, huh?
00:52:44
What'd you say that? Was like ghost Patrick.
00:52:49
Squeezing it with with with the with the penny like pushing.
00:52:51
It up the wall. Yeah, but it's it's like, OK, so
00:52:56
now you're gonna go try to help Tommy find his brother as a
00:53:01
ghost. Yeah, I can already tell you're
00:53:04
about to be more irritating as a ghost than you ever were alive.
00:53:09
Duh, of course she is. But she.
00:53:13
Can go in, she can go anywhere she wants to go.
00:53:15
She can talk. She's going to be talking to
00:53:18
Wiccan and Wiccan is going to be talking to her and nobody's
00:53:20
going to be able to see her. So we're just going to look like
00:53:23
he's talking to himself. So people going to be like, what
00:53:25
the fuck is it? It's the, it's the, it's the,
00:53:27
it's the same old ghost friend trope where the ghost friend
00:53:31
talks, talks, talks to the human and the human tries to talk to
00:53:33
them and they're that everybody's like, Oh my God,
00:53:35
it's not because crazy. Who the fuck is he talking to?
00:53:37
So that's where we're going, yeah, unless, unless activist
00:53:41
shows herself and says do all the time and scares people.
00:53:44
Which she probably does, but would be annoying.
00:53:48
Yes, it's going to be. The conversation that they were
00:53:51
having right there at the end, OK, so even though we see Wiccan
00:53:55
has some of his mother's abilities, he was able to create
00:53:59
the whole witch's road and everything that happened.
00:54:02
And of course the people who died within the witch's road,
00:54:05
they actually died in real life. But I like the fact that even
00:54:09
though they show the similarity between him and his mother, they
00:54:12
also show the difference because once he realized what happened,
00:54:15
what he did, he was immediately remorseful.
00:54:18
Like, I don't want to do this anymore because people died.
00:54:23
And she had to sit there and kind of convince him, like,
00:54:27
well, you actually saved the life.
00:54:28
You saved Jen. And let's be honest, I was going
00:54:31
to kill them all in my basement the first day anyways, so.
00:54:35
Basically. But OK, Jen crawling out of the
00:54:39
ground and flying away. So obviously that means we're
00:54:45
probably going to see her again. What is her character like in
00:54:49
the comics? Because I've heard a little bit
00:54:52
of. All right, so I'm surprised that
00:54:57
I haven't heard about this more because Jennifer Kale in the
00:55:02
comics is white and blonde. First of all, OK, but I have I'm
00:55:07
I'm glad I haven't heard like, Oh my God, they they color
00:55:10
switched above like whatever. But she's also featured in the
00:55:14
midnight Suns, which has been with which they have have
00:55:18
announced that is in production. So and she has she has so she
00:55:22
has she has a link to ghost rider.
00:55:24
She has linked to blade, she has linked to moon night.
00:55:26
She has a link to everybody else that's been in that.
00:55:29
So she can basically basically go anywhere from there.
00:55:33
OK, so OK, I, I'm, I'm looking for I, I hope, I hope she gets
00:55:38
that because I really love Sasheer's performance.
00:55:40
Like I thought she she did an excellent job in.
00:55:42
This show, she was one of the best parts of this show.
00:55:45
Yeah, she really was. I really want, I really want to
00:55:49
see if they get, if they figure out a way to get Lilia back
00:55:52
somehow because they didn't show her dead, they just showed her
00:55:55
going back to start training again.
00:55:59
Yeah. So thank you.
00:56:02
I mean, I, I wouldn't mind seeing her, but I but I think,
00:56:05
but I'm pretty sure that she's gonna come up again somewhere,
00:56:08
somewhere along the line. OK.
00:56:11
OK. But yeah, overall I will say
00:56:16
aside, aside from my earlier reservations in the way I feel,
00:56:21
I I kind of do like the way the show wrapped up.
00:56:25
And I particularly liked the last four episodes way better
00:56:30
than I did the first five. But like I said, there were
00:56:34
things that I just missed with the first five that once I went
00:56:37
back and looked, I was like, oh, OK, so I missed that.
00:56:41
That makes sense for this, that and other.
00:56:43
So I think what I'm just going to have to do for myself is even
00:56:47
though it might be hard with certain things, I have to go
00:56:51
back to my rule of watching things at least twice before we
00:56:55
record. Because other than that, I I'm I
00:56:59
miss, I missed a whole bunch of stuff because I didn't go back
00:57:02
and rewatch the episodes. So yeah, that's.
00:57:06
Right real quick as some of some I forgot since you were talking
00:57:09
about Jennifer Kell, she is actually related to Johnny
00:57:14
Blaze. Wow.
00:57:19
Yeah, like their cousins. Or wait, hold on then.
00:57:22
She is the cousin of Johnny Blaze.
00:57:27
OK. So it makes it easier for them
00:57:29
to bring him, bring you that Ghost Rider in if they want, if
00:57:34
they want to redo it just so. I mean, it'd be, it'd be kind of
00:57:37
weird. It'd be kind of hard to explain
00:57:40
her being Nicholas Cage's cousin, but I mean, you know, it
00:57:48
could. Happen.
00:57:49
Just maybe they would just. She could still be his cousin
00:57:52
and he'd be white. Yeah.
00:57:54
You know their design. I mean, I'm not even, I'm not
00:57:57
even worried about that part. I was just, I was just more
00:58:00
thinking like how are they related?
00:58:02
Because if you think about it. OK, OK, here's here's here.
00:58:09
I got it. I got it right here.
00:58:10
So Jen learns that she she was doing something with John Danny
00:58:14
Ketch and Johnny Blaze's Ghost Rider.
00:58:17
Like both of them were Ghost Rider.
00:58:18
So she's doing something to both of them.
00:58:19
So she finds out that she's that she's Johnny Blaze's cousin.
00:58:24
She's a cousin of of them descended from the noble from
00:58:28
noble Kale. He's the Ghost Rider of the 17th
00:58:30
century. So, OK, so, so there's a
00:58:34
relation to that, so. OK, OK.
00:58:39
But that but I mean that that that leads them into finding a
00:58:42
ghost rider that leads them into doing midnight Suns that leads,
00:58:46
you know, so I'm so that that's basically her her foray into it
00:58:51
into. Like, yeah, I and I think
00:58:53
they've actually been talking about like, I know that there's
00:58:55
been rumors for the last couple of years about them looking for
00:58:59
a Ghost Rider, them doing a Ghost Riders project.
00:59:04
So, but I mean, it's kind of I think at this point with Marvel,
00:59:13
I think until I actually see something like trailer wise
00:59:19
concept art, something like that, I'm really at a point
00:59:23
where I'm just like, I'm not gonna put any thought into what
00:59:27
they could be doing years in, you know, in years.
00:59:31
Because like, they have so many things that they've scrapped now
00:59:35
that were supposed to happen. Like Eternals is scrapped, Blay,
00:59:40
Even though at D 23 Brazil, they were like, we're still
00:59:44
committed. We still like what Mahershala
00:59:46
was going to do with the character.
00:59:48
We just, you know, we got to work on it.
00:59:51
It's been how many years now? We haven't heard anything about
00:59:57
Shang Shi 2. Moonlight 2 is probably not
01:00:02
going to happen. There's just so many things out
01:00:05
there. You know, I, I've seen some
01:00:07
things now about the mutant saga that's supposed to come out and
01:00:12
you know how they're going to be incorporating the X-Men into the
01:00:16
MCU. And I'm like, but y'all still
01:00:18
got this shit over here that y'all haven't done yet.
01:00:20
So I just, I'm at a point where is until I see some stuff like
01:00:26
the trailer they released a couple of weeks ago where we saw
01:00:29
clips of what if we saw clips of Iron Heart?
01:00:32
We saw clips of I forgot. Yeah.
01:00:36
So I. Can can I?
01:00:38
Can I comment? Yes. 2 Two things.
01:00:41
One, just because the crap is filmed still doesn't mean it's
01:00:47
going to come out because we've seen HBO have stuff wrapped up,
01:00:53
done, ready to go. We're going to talk about HBO.
01:00:56
They just got rid of it. So that's that's one and two it
01:01:05
it I think I'm not going to go off on the studio rant, but I
01:01:10
think the the biggest issue that Marvel has has has created this
01:01:16
monster where in its effort or in their, in their attempt to
01:01:24
try to do all these things, like to have all these things they
01:01:27
want to do all these things they want to accomplish, things are
01:01:33
falling away. Like instead of focusing on one
01:01:38
thing or two things at a time, they've divided up so many
01:01:42
different things that things are running into each other.
01:01:47
People are waiting around for scripts to be done and they're
01:01:50
like, you know, I'm going to go do this other thing while y'all
01:01:53
get this shit together. Directors have these ideas about
01:01:56
what they want to do. Like no, we can't do that
01:01:58
because we want it to relate to this other thing that we're
01:02:01
doing that we plan to do. Like, well, I can't do the movie
01:02:04
I want want to do because you want me to do something that's
01:02:07
going to set up something later. And and then you know, you have
01:02:12
the TV shows where you can't use these characters because we're
01:02:14
going to do this. And this is creating this big
01:02:17
mess where things just falling off thing because things get
01:02:22
pushed. Actors go do other things and
01:02:25
the stuff that you are doing isn't quality.
01:02:28
It isn't great because there's no like the clear vision is
01:02:34
gone. Like it's gone and I, I don't
01:02:39
know, Marvel and some other franchise I won't, I won't name
01:02:44
on this on this podcast. They just lost it.
01:02:48
The magic is gone. It is.
01:02:50
And I, I think we're, we're starting to get to the point
01:02:54
where where everything we're getting is aggressively
01:02:59
mediocre. It's just they just trying to
01:03:02
really, really hard to give his mediocre stuff.
01:03:07
I agree. Yeah, I'm sorry.
01:03:11
I I agree on some things, but I just have my, I have my rose
01:03:15
colored glasses on where I just suspect everything to be good
01:03:18
and I downgraded from there. So but there there have been
01:03:22
some things that could have been way better.
01:03:24
I mean, I think. This could have been way better,
01:03:28
huh? Oh yeah.
01:03:31
Yeah, Yeah. I think I'm kind of in that
01:03:33
happy middle where I'm like, OK, I don't go in with high
01:03:38
expectations anymore because there have been some things that
01:03:42
are just kind of like, I think the thing that I'm most excited
01:03:46
for right now just in the last week.
01:03:50
What? What?
01:03:52
Go ahead. What you were you about to say,
01:03:55
Captain America? No, actually, I mean, I am just
01:04:00
because I like Sam Wilson. I am looking forward to that.
01:04:04
I I'm looking forward to it, but I'm, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm
01:04:09
cautiously optimistic because that is one of those other
01:04:16
productions that have had issues with it.
01:04:19
You know, they've had the story change.
01:04:21
I think the first time they had a, they had a movie and they
01:04:25
screen tested it, it got horrible comments and reviews.
01:04:29
So they had to go back and redo some things.
01:04:31
So I'm cautiously optimistic, but because I am Sam Wilson fan,
01:04:36
I, you know, I'm looking forward to it.
01:04:39
I'm really looking forward to Thunderbolts because that looks
01:04:42
like it's going to be a fun movie if nothing else.
01:04:44
And they just released today, the season 3 final, the trailer
01:04:50
for the final season of What If Anthony, don't you don't you do
01:04:54
that because Anthony was like, it's OK.
01:04:57
I'm so sorry. That trailer was so good.
01:05:02
And then at the end to get Storm holding Mulnair, I was like, I
01:05:07
was in my office at work. And when I saw that I went and I
01:05:11
was like, oh wait, I am at work. Let me bring it down a notch.
01:05:15
But those two projects? I'm looking forward to you
01:05:19
didn't even I'm like I feel. She I was going to tell you
01:05:24
better, she posted in. I thought you'd be have seen it.
01:05:26
No. How could you do this?
01:05:27
Oh. You didn't see it bad said it
01:05:30
been bad. Oh my gosh, yes it is.
01:05:32
I'm. Devastated.
01:05:35
OK, so when you get off of. Here you didn't.
01:05:38
See anything? Clearly.
01:05:40
See. No, don't listen to him.
01:05:42
Don't listen to him. Don't listen to him, Devil.
01:05:44
Trailer too. Oh, is there?
01:05:47
Is there? I don't know.
01:05:48
Is there a what trailer Daredevil?
01:05:51
I don't think it. I don't think there's a full
01:05:53
trailer for it. There's.
01:05:54
A teaser in it. I think, I think there's a
01:05:56
teaser. I didn't know, I think.
01:05:58
I think they just, they just, they just flipped what they had
01:06:02
for they. Need to trust you now.
01:06:05
Uh oh, Andy, you in the dog house?
01:06:08
It's. Me that you didn't miss anything
01:06:10
with the weather trailer. You know what?
01:06:11
Whatever. No, no, no, don't stop that.
01:06:13
Don't even. Anyway, y'all got anything else
01:06:16
to say about Agatha all along? Just in general or about the
01:06:20
last two episodes? Because we're not about to
01:06:23
listen to Anthony's. Classroom right now.
01:06:25
I'm sorry. I was like totally all for it.
01:06:30
I really was. But it it just, it went kind of
01:06:33
downhill. It's funny, We we, we reversed.
01:06:39
I stayed the court. I.
01:06:40
Know the reason why the court, I know the reason why.
01:06:44
So that's just how I feel. It was this blah at the end.
01:06:52
Yeah, OK, real quick shout out to shout out to Aubrey Plaza for
01:06:57
having the best witch cackle ever.
01:07:01
That she does. When when she when when they
01:07:04
were going down on the brooms like that cackle and the cackle
01:07:07
in episode 8 when she was on top on the roof.
01:07:10
Herb was looking like the fuck. Like that shit was crazy shot to
01:07:17
them revealing that that Wiccan, that team was Wiccan made the
01:07:23
road by doing it kind of usual suspect style.
01:07:27
Like just going going through and seeing stuff and having it
01:07:30
relate to what what he was seeing and stuff like that.
01:07:33
Like that was that was crazy. I mean, if if we wouldn't have
01:07:38
had certain clues about it, it probably would have hit a little
01:07:42
bit better, but it still hit pretty good for me.
01:07:44
I think Anthony even called that the fact that the the witch's
01:07:49
role, you know, had stuff from off his walls.
01:07:52
And I think Michelle said something about the posters
01:07:55
being referenced. So right.
01:08:00
I was, I don't know how to approach this.
01:08:06
Like did Agatha, I keep think, keep wondering, did she conjure
01:08:13
her? Did she conjure Nicholas?
01:08:19
When? Because it because she said he,
01:08:21
she made him from scratch. Oh, that's OK.
01:08:26
So yes, that is the question I had as well because I was like
01:08:31
So what Immaculate Conception is that what she did?
01:08:35
I But if you go by what she said and yeah, I think.
01:08:41
It would, I mean it. We It's been proven that witches
01:08:44
can get themselves pregnant from not having sexual intercourse.
01:08:51
Yeah. It was proven one division,
01:08:53
Wanda had twins without having sex.
01:08:55
Well, she probably was having sex with Vision, because
01:09:00
remember, Vision was turning himself.
01:09:02
Into now. Now we, now we get into the
01:09:04
Steely Dan conversation. I'm not trying to hear all that.
01:09:06
No, that's not where I was going with this.
01:09:08
I'm just you brought it up. You brought it up.
01:09:12
I wasn't trying to go there. I was.
01:09:14
I was just saying because because I think the way, the way
01:09:17
that she said that she made him from scratch and I was just
01:09:21
like, that kind of made me made me kind of like think just like
01:09:26
it's not out of the realm of possibilities that she found a
01:09:32
way to to get herself pregnant. I mean, she even said she
01:09:38
didn't, she didn't say a spell. So that would be interesting if
01:09:42
if that's what she did. Yeah, it's like, I mean, maybe,
01:09:47
maybe that's maybe that's why, that's why Rio was trying.
01:09:50
That's why Death was trying to get it was trying to get him
01:09:53
because, because you see how she reacted while she was trying to
01:09:57
get Billy, because Billy was Billy was he wasn't created
01:10:01
naturally. And he was throwing off the
01:10:04
natural balance. And he was, he was an
01:10:05
abnormality. So she was like, he's got to go.
01:10:08
So maybe that this is the same thing?
01:10:10
So yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, it does.
01:10:15
It makes sense. So I mean, it could be, I mean,
01:10:18
because I mean, you know, I mean you can't date somebody whose
01:10:21
ex's death is like, how do you compete with that?
01:10:24
It's like if you if in and then it's like all of a sudden one
01:10:28
night, one night you come up and her it's like who you talking to
01:10:31
my ex? OK, talk to her all you want to.
01:10:33
Don't worry about. Don't worry about me.
01:10:35
It's like how you gonna get death mad at you?
01:10:38
Like that's messed up. Yeah.
01:10:41
But yeah, I enjoyed this whole series.
01:10:43
I I, I enjoyed pretty much every episode.
01:10:48
I I found, I found things, I found things love about all of
01:10:52
them. Some of the episodes, couple of
01:10:53
episodes kind of dragged for me, but I really enjoyed this.
01:10:57
It's I enjoyed it like I enjoy the Ant man, the Ant man movies.
01:11:04
They're not like top Thursday. They're like mid tier.
01:11:07
This is a mid tier show for me. OK, but I enjoyed it.
01:11:10
I I actually I really enjoyed a lot of it.
01:11:13
There's some moments the singing, the singing parts are
01:11:17
top tier for me. I think I think they did an
01:11:19
excellent job at those. I think that a lot of the the
01:11:24
last the things that they did well, the reveals the the music
01:11:31
in this the music in this series was top notch.
01:11:33
I love I love almost everything musically that they did.
01:11:37
The you the you should see me in a crown beat drop is still 1 of
01:11:41
this. This still resonates with me.
01:11:43
It's like I'm still like that shit was genius, like perfect,
01:11:48
and I like a lot of stuff that it that it did this.
01:11:52
It's right there. It's it's, it's, it's right
01:11:56
there mid tier for me. So I I really enjoyed it.
01:12:00
It's, it's something that I that I do find myself going back just
01:12:03
to catch stuff like you, but I really enjoyed it.
01:12:07
So what would its watch ability rating be for you?
01:12:15
I'd have to think about that. For.
01:12:17
Everyone in this. Group out of 10 it's about a
01:12:20
about a six and about a 6 1/2 or 7.
01:12:23
No, it's no, it's no, no, I take it back.
01:12:25
It's a solid 7 because there there's certain episodes I would
01:12:28
definitely watch again. There's certain episodes that
01:12:30
wouldn't like the the the one where they went into Alice's
01:12:35
parents house and she broke the curse.
01:12:36
I'll actually really like that episode.
01:12:39
The the episode where episode 8 I could watch over and over
01:12:44
again. I think they'll any episodes 8-9
01:12:46
I could rewatch a lot. Episode 1 I could kind of give
01:12:49
or take like and episode episode 2 I could watch, I could rewatch
01:12:54
too. So it's a bit of a good 7/7 and
01:12:56
1/2 for me. OK, Anthony, I have to think
01:13:01
about it because again, I'm still even even though I have a
01:13:06
little bit more knowledge about what the 1st, the earlier
01:13:09
episodes were and what it was supposed to do, those are still
01:13:13
not my favorite. I think my my favorite episode
01:13:16
out of the entire show was probably episode 6, which was
01:13:22
teen story. When we find out what's going on
01:13:26
with him and his reveal, I'd have to think about it like.
01:13:31
Well, good feeling, good feeling that you will sit back and turn
01:13:35
this back on and rewatch from episode 1 to the end.
01:13:40
Probably. Probably a three.
01:13:45
OK. Yeah, probably a three.
01:13:48
OK so before I answer this question, I have not watched any
01:13:58
of the Marvel series again but I've only watched them once so
01:14:06
the likelihood of me watching this again is low like 0.
01:14:11
Like even my favorite marvel shows I have not watched again.
01:14:17
So I would have to say I'm not going to watch again.
01:14:20
I I haven't and I have no desire to watch it.
01:14:22
Like I was thinking the other day oh I want to go back and
01:14:25
watch Falcon The Winter Soldier at some point.
01:14:28
It hasn't happened yet, but but as far as wanting to watch
01:14:36
again, I I would not want to watch it again and as far as how
01:14:40
I feel about this series, I'm I'm going to put it with echo
01:14:48
and and state say that I'm undecided really, because I see
01:14:53
I saw a lot of potential expectations were not really
01:14:57
high, but I was kind of curious about it to see how it goes.
01:15:01
Watched it. It's like, was it terrible that
01:15:05
it wasn't great either? The best thing that come out of
01:15:11
the show was Jen like that. That is the best thing that come
01:15:15
out of the show. And I would love to see her in
01:15:18
other stuff. I would love to see her be a
01:15:20
part of other things in the MCUI.
01:15:24
Don't think it's going to happen because I think the MCU is too
01:15:27
much of a mess right now for them to make anything coherent
01:15:32
of coherent use of her character.
01:15:35
If Midnight Suns ever comes to fruition that would be nice but
01:15:40
you should shoot horn hurry in somehow and make it work.
01:15:44
But you know the series is OK. Like it's a bounce back from
01:15:50
secret invasion. I'll I'll give it that.
01:15:54
But. That's not really saying
01:15:55
anything though. It's not.
01:15:58
It Yeah, we'll we'll, we'll, we'll.
01:16:03
We'll see. I'll go, I'll go.
01:16:04
I'll go along with your about Echo.
01:16:06
I can give you that that that is that I think.
01:16:09
It's unfair to Echo, I really do.
01:16:11
I think like Echo should never be write it because it's really
01:16:18
unfinished show that was rushed. That's why I was I have to.
01:16:20
Feel like that that show literally 'cause I feel like
01:16:23
that wasn't good at all like. But I still I feel it's unfair
01:16:27
to even say anything about the show because it didn't, they
01:16:31
didn't give it the just that it needed to get.
01:16:34
So it's like that's off to the side.
01:16:37
But everything else and I'm starting to think of now shows
01:16:40
of will I watch again? And you're absolutely right, I
01:16:43
don't watch any of the series again.
01:16:45
They are series that I would watch again though.
01:16:48
It's just if I had time or if I need something in the
01:16:50
background, I will watch Falcon in The Winter Soldier and I will
01:16:53
also watch Moon Knight. But then those are the only two.
01:16:57
And yes, I thought what you guys about Agatha.
01:17:01
But overall, like I wouldn't watch the episodes again, but
01:17:05
seven and I will only watch 7. If it pertains to him being in
01:17:11
another movie. I'm like, oh let me get my
01:17:12
background again and let me watch 7.
01:17:16
See, I was I, I, I kind of put it where I would watch the.
01:17:20
It's better than secret evasions though.
01:17:23
Way better. I I would watch there.
01:17:24
There's there's a there, there are two there.
01:17:28
There are two YouTube 2 YouTube channels I watch.
01:17:30
One is reactionary TV, the others J2O shout to both of
01:17:33
them. They do.
01:17:34
They do reactions where other where other other creators react
01:17:38
to like shows, movies and stuff like that.
01:17:41
And it's like, I watch those all the time and it's like, I'll go
01:17:44
back and I'll, I'll watch like their reactions to the Falcon
01:17:47
and Winter Soldier because it's cool seeing other nerds react to
01:17:50
things like especially things that you've watched before.
01:17:54
So like I've gone back and watched like the reactions to
01:17:59
Agatha a lot. It's like, if this is if it's
01:18:03
something that I like, I'll go back and watch reactions to it
01:18:07
all the time. Because their reactions as
01:18:09
opposed to the whole show, they actually cut down to the better
01:18:14
parts of the show, like the action sequences or the the
01:18:17
really funny parts or the like shocking parts.
01:18:20
It's like they go straight to those and they show show
01:18:24
creators reactions to them. So as far as that goes, I'm, I'm
01:18:29
still watching reactions to Agatha because I watch like
01:18:35
episode 4 when they were in Alice's mom's house and they
01:18:39
were doing that like, 'cause I'll go straight to the part
01:18:42
where they're singing her version of the witches Rd. which
01:18:45
I love that song. I, I love that version.
01:18:48
So I mean, that's, that's how I would, that's how usually I rate
01:18:52
things. Like if I would, I go watch a
01:18:54
reaction and just like catch certain parts that I really
01:18:57
liked. And there are tons of parts in
01:19:00
there that would catch like that.
01:19:02
So, so one, one of the issues I have with this show is it seemed
01:19:07
like it was a lot of window dressing, like there was a lot
01:19:11
of surface level things that were really pretty.
01:19:15
You know, the sets were great, the costumes were great, the
01:19:18
sound was great, the music was great, the effects were OK.
01:19:22
It was just a lot of that, a lot of fluff, a lot of pageantry and
01:19:27
not a lot of substance to me. Like it became a scavenger hunt.
01:19:33
Can we figure these things out and put the pieces together?
01:19:38
It it just, that's what it felt like.
01:19:40
It feel very airy. And I don't want to say
01:19:44
incomplete because I don't feel it.
01:19:47
I don't think it felt incomplete.
01:19:50
Like Echo fell short in a lot of ways.
01:19:54
And you're right, they, they did Echo dirty.
01:19:57
They really did. And that's and that's why I put
01:20:00
put Agatha in the same category where Echo is like.
01:20:03
It's very hard to kind of judge it now because the, the, the,
01:20:11
the step is there. Like it's right there what
01:20:15
something is feel. I feel like it's something
01:20:17
missing but It's Special's first 4 episodes seem like a skeleton
01:20:22
and I feel like I needed more from the show other than a lot
01:20:26
of the the window dressing and prettiness.
01:20:28
We can't go back. So but that, but that's but
01:20:30
that's all I wanted. That's all I wanted to say about
01:20:32
it. OK, so even.
01:20:34
Though I complained about the last episodes, doesn't take the
01:20:38
fact that it was actually even Hanko going back.
01:20:42
Well, how? To you know how to go going back
01:20:44
and start to realize just like the the ties that it has from
01:20:48
the beginning. I think it is a complete story.
01:20:50
I personally didn't care how they may act, I'm.
01:20:53
Not going to say, OK, I'm not going to say it was a complete
01:20:56
story because I I do. Oh I'm sorry if I misheard you.
01:20:59
I didn't mean to say not complete but that it was missing
01:21:02
something. You said it was missing
01:21:03
something, that's what I meant. I don't feel like it was missing
01:21:06
anything, I just didn't like how they did the act of the
01:21:08
character. I didn't say you said it was
01:21:10
wasn't Mischanted. I don't see her.
01:21:12
Let's not argue. Let's let's not do this.
01:21:15
Again, I feel like it wasn't missing anything.
01:21:18
That's what I'm saying. We got to tell you how.
01:21:20
I felt. Yeah, yeah.
01:21:23
I I wasn't. Missing anything?
01:21:24
Yes, it was it. Was I, I?
01:21:26
I agree with Anthony. I do still think that there was
01:21:31
some things missing. I think overall for me it
01:21:36
didn't. Agatha was the main character
01:21:41
but I feel like it really wasn't her show.
01:21:45
I think a lot of it was building up who Teen was.
01:21:51
Like aside from Agatha's back story, which we don't really get
01:21:56
until the very last episode, it's more about identifying who
01:22:02
team is, how he got to where he is, and him discovering the
01:22:07
extent of his powers in creating the witch's role.
01:22:11
I feel like it was more a a show that was supposed to transition
01:22:16
his character into something else and not necessarily
01:22:21
Agatha's character. I mean, the last episode, we do
01:22:28
kind of see more of that cohesion that I feel like is
01:22:33
missing in the earlier episodes because you get her resolution
01:22:38
with death. You get her, you know, dying her
01:22:42
making the sacrifice, her becoming a ghost.
01:22:44
And now she's about to embark on helping Billy find his brother
01:22:49
again. This is more teen story then it
01:22:53
was Agatha's story and you know, I I don't have a problem with it
01:22:57
because like I said, I was actually more interested in
01:23:00
teen's character from the beginning that I was in Agatha.
01:23:03
Like I wanted to know is this Billy Maximoff and if so, how
01:23:07
did he get in his body and where is his brother?
01:23:09
Those were questions that I had after One Division after
01:23:13
Multiverse of Madness. You know, the whole the whole
01:23:17
story arc with Wanda basically losing her mind trying to get
01:23:22
her children back. That is something that I think
01:23:25
resonated with all of us with Wanda Vision, with Multiverse
01:23:28
and madness. And then this whole thing about
01:23:31
is she dead? Is she not dead witch?
01:23:33
Apparently, Kevin Feige has hinted that Scarlet Witch may
01:23:37
not be done in the MCU. So all of that to say, I feel
01:23:43
like it was more his story. I didn't have a problem with
01:23:47
that. Agatha didn't really get
01:23:52
interesting to me towards until towards the end.
01:23:54
And even with that, it's still kind of like hit or miss with
01:23:59
me. I'm not going to say it was as
01:24:03
bad as Secret Invasion, but it's also not one of my top shows
01:24:11
like Anthony. I probably, I, I may go back and
01:24:13
just rewatch, finish rewatching episodes four and five just to
01:24:20
just to revisit those episodes. But then I probably will never
01:24:24
need to watch this show again. Yeah.
01:24:27
So, yeah. But I mean, I, I think at this
01:24:31
point, we probably it, it's probably time for us to have
01:24:37
another one of our shows where we talk about all of the Marvel
01:24:41
products that's that's been released in this phase and kind
01:24:43
of rank them 'cause I think it's been like maybe two or three
01:24:46
years since we've done that. So I, I think, I think it's
01:24:51
probably time for us to do that. But yeah, it's just.
01:24:54
Starting from when? Probably Phase 5, Yeah.
01:25:01
But I mean, that's something like I said, that's something I
01:25:04
literally just thought about now, especially because, you
01:25:08
know, in trying to figure out where we want to place Agatha,
01:25:12
Like Anthony has brought up Echo and I know we still haven't
01:25:16
gotten around to talking about She Hulk and Miss Marvel.
01:25:20
And I know at some point Mike still wants to do that.
01:25:23
We may still need to do that. I will say Miss Marvel is one of
01:25:26
those shows I wouldn't mind going back re watching She Hulk
01:25:31
watch that It's kind of maybe I don't know I I still.
01:25:36
Watch you hope Anthony shut up. So yeah, so so, but yeah, Agatha
01:25:42
is probably one of those. I would say it's probably mid to
01:25:45
low tier for me. I'm not going to say it's all
01:25:49
the way at the bottom with seeking Secret Invasion for me,
01:25:52
but. I mean, we we all know what.
01:25:53
Everything compared to everything else we've seen, it's
01:25:59
probably somewhere close to that.
01:26:02
Yeah. So but we, we, I mean, we can
01:26:04
just, we can basically when, when we do this, we can
01:26:06
basically skip the first first entry and just go to whatever is
01:26:10
next to last because we all know what we're going to have at the
01:26:13
bottom, so. Yeah, but I mean.
01:26:17
You'd never know. No, I think we're all in
01:26:21
agreeance on that one. I don't know but.
01:26:24
I think we're all in agreement for.
01:26:26
That awesome now? You know what?
01:26:30
See you are you, are you going to get electrocuted?
01:26:32
Hey, calm. Down and on that false notes
01:26:37
that is it for our show. You can find us online at
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